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      04-27-2015, 11:56 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddalun View Post
Does applying throttle when in a too tall of a gear (eg, going 30MPH in 6th gear and pressing on gas) also cause the dilution of oil and gas you mentioned? I believe this is called "lulling" or something to that effect.

Does this mean that once warmed up the S65 should be pushed at least once per drive, or at least once per few drives?

TIA
Okay this might sound a little odd but that's what happened to all the 2003/04 Mustang cobra's! Every owner knew from day one if you had your car in fifth gear and wanted to floor it, your engine would go down south!
So I asume, if you are in to high gear/ while low RPM and then floor it, it causes heat, sparkplug's get drowned in fuel and the engine get's under alot of stress.
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      04-27-2015, 11:59 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
First time that I was reading about enormous oil consumption and after 1K bearing failure .
That's why I was asking to OP about exhaust fumes , even when the oil is burned ..It's needs to go somewhere ..
About the noises I have learned for the last 2 years how our S65 not should sound by listening hundreds of times slight ticking and rattle noises of videos from people out of luck or f@cked up by BMW .
Aha! Thank's for your fast response
Whatabout the exhaust fume's? We know blue...mean's coolant...white? Wich color are you referring when diagnosing a potencial candidate?
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      04-27-2015, 12:25 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by vsix View Post
Aha! Thank's for your fast response
Whatabout the exhaust fume's? We know blue...mean's coolant...white? Wich color are you referring when diagnosing a potencial candidate?
Ever driven behind a very old diesel 20 years old and with +300K miles on it ?
Indeed , we can even smell the oil and is a dark blue fume , they burn oil for joy !
I really don't get it that OP burns oil to 1/2 indicator in 1K miles , even when the oil was burned the only exit is via the exhaust tips !
The big question is...
Can bad bearings that run hotter burn oil that fast in about 1K miles ...
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      04-27-2015, 12:33 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by MikeeM3 View Post
Many thanks i will do it after work today and PM you later on tonight
Tonight for you ...Is tomorrow for me, think I run 6 hours (local time) in front of you .
But no doubt ...My head phone is ready !
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      04-27-2015, 12:34 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW View Post

There is a leaked official B failure rate % from BMW. Don't try to ask me where I got it from, I cannot reveal it. So don't ask, i won't answer.
It's 2-4% including all supercharged and tuned cars (which are evidently more susceptible to engine failure). If you remove SC and tuned cars it's even smaller.
Just to play devils advocate here. Your "very reliable source" couldn't narrow down the number between 2%-4%? Don't you think if you had that information you could say to the decimal place how many engines had blown? 2-4% is a huge range when it comes to defects in cars. Also, what do you think the average mileage is across all M3's? If you include 2012's and 2013's, probably around 30k-40k? At 10k miles/year an 2008 would have around 60k miles, and a 2013 would have 10k, so I think this is a pretty reasonable guess. That fact that as many as 4% of engines with an average of 30k miles have already failed is bad news for those looking to get 100k out of the car. That could mean a failure rate as high as 12% by 90k miles.

I get these are "worst case" numbers but lets not pretend that 2-4% range is fixed. It will only continue to go up as these cars age.
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      04-27-2015, 12:44 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW View Post
Thanks for your feedback. Since your changed oil, did you recently have more inner city short drives than usual ? Has it been a while since you went on an aggressive drive ? And last, does your car gets driven between 6K RPM to redline regularly (at least every other drive) or not ?
This means the same as nothing !
Honestly , my car is every single winter in hibernation on my battery tender for about 3-4 months or more, depends when the road salt is gone .
After this I start my car and drive it for 4-5 days in granny style ,max to 4-5K rpm , because the car was not driven for months !
After that week I just step on it my friend and my S65 runs just perfect , and hope to keep it that way .
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      04-27-2015, 12:45 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post


You realize you just dropped a bombshell here. This is the first time anyone's claimed there were an internal number ran on this defect. So I hope your source is credible, b/c people and other social media sources would pick this up quickly.


That said, I sincerely feel like BMW should pick up the tab for the 2%. If they did their probability of expense, they'll find out that not even 100% of this 2% will end be being a claim that BMW themselves will pay. As in this example, a 3rd part aftermarket warranty is cutting this check, and there are already examples of people preemptively changing out their bearings or electing not to go back to BMW for the fix.

Other cars get crashed, or supercharged, coverted to racecars thus rescinding this eligibility, and thus decreases the universe further. The end cost of fixing this for owner pro-bono will be less than 50% of this 2%. I hope BMW DE and BMWNA reads this...
Interesting. But large companies have risk assessment professionals. They would hold regular meetings on this topic to decide course of action with half the room filled with lawyers, the rest test and design engineers with exact up-to-date numbers and some understanding of the issue that is all kept confidential.

You forgot that making a public acknowledgment also damages the brand's reliability reputation which is difficult to put a revenue loss number on and it opens the doors to all claims on engines, bearing related or not.
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      04-27-2015, 12:50 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeeM3 View Post
my car is at 75k and both previous members did all the maintenance requiered with 7500k oil change etc ... but since day one im having a noise coming from engine bay or maybe under the car im not 100%... might be because of the catless pipes or something else i dont know yet... im so afraid of those rod bearings failure that im thinking about selling the car soon even if i have only put 3k on it since purchase
better sell it FAST!!!! what if your bearings go TODAY?!
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      04-27-2015, 12:53 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
Just to play devils advocate here. Your "very reliable source" couldn't narrow down the number between 2%-4%? Don't you think if you had that information you could say to the decimal place how many engines had blown? 2-4% is a huge range when it comes to defects in cars. Also, what do you think the average mileage is across all M3's? If you include 2012's and 2013's, probably around 30k-40k? At 10k miles/year an 2008 would have around 60k miles, and a 2013 would have 10k, so I think this is a pretty reasonable guess. That fact that as many as 4% of engines with an average of 30k miles have already failed is bad news for those looking to get 100k out of the car. That could mean a failure rate as high as 12% by 90k miles.

I get these are "worst case" numbers but lets not pretend that 2-4% range is fixed. It will only continue to go up as these cars age.
That's what I call a "logical reasoning" !
But also speculation , because we saw on here several with +100K on it and someone with + 170K on it !
Are this the real winners ...
About his very reliable source I'm agreed , and BMW will do nothing , and the only thing they do is..."Financial speculation"
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      04-27-2015, 01:01 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
Just to play devils advocate here. Your "very reliable source" couldn't narrow down the number between 2%-4%? Don't you think if you had that information you could say to the decimal place how many engines had blown? 2-4% is a huge range when it comes to defects in cars. Also, what do you think the average mileage is across all M3's? If you include 2012's and 2013's, probably around 30k-40k? At 10k miles/year an 2008 would have around 60k miles, and a 2013 would have 10k, so I think this is a pretty reasonable guess. That fact that as many as 4% of engines with an average of 30k miles have already failed is bad news for those looking to get 100k out of the car. That could mean a failure rate as high as 12% by 90k miles.

I get these are "worst case" numbers but lets not pretend that 2-4% range is fixed. It will only continue to go up as these cars age.
Absolutely wrong. The 2-4% will not go up with time. It is a range precisely because it's a statistical expectation of how many engines will experience that failure over their lifetime with high statistical confidence. It's not how many as of yet have failed. Think of it as the final expected value the % will converge to.
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      04-27-2015, 01:24 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW View Post
Thanks for your feedback. Since your changed oil, did you recently have more inner city short drives than usual ? Has it been a while since you went on an aggressive drive ? And last, does your car gets driven between 6K RPM to redline regularly (at least every other drive) or not ?
Basically, I have a routine which includes a few spots on my daily commute when I could really open the car up... Routine always starts with a 3-4 minute warm-up at idle and then driving the car keeping it under 3k rpms until it reaches at least 200 degrees on the oil temp gauge... Once fully warmed, there are several areas of my commute each day that gives me the opportunity to redline the car through several gears... the car gets redlined at least a few times at a minimum daily, and some days up to a dozen times... Spirited driving of course, not abuse...
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      04-27-2015, 01:30 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

Absolutely wrong. The 2-4% will not go up with time. It is a range precisely because it's a statistical expectation of how many engines will experience that failure over their lifetime with high statistical confidence. It's not how many as of yet have failed. Think of it as the final expected value the % will converge to.
Well, I hope you are right!
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      04-27-2015, 01:34 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
Well, I hope you are right!
Hope the same thing , like I said it's a lottery from out of the factory !
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      04-27-2015, 01:34 PM   #80
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2-4% bearing failure rate seems very high for a production motor. I wonder why there is still no recall on the engine, as ceasing the motor at highway speed represents a danger to public safety. I'm curious if getting NHTSA involved to start an investigation will prompt BMW to do the right thing. Maybe we should get a class action suit started. Are there lawyers on this board?

They did recall on S54 but I don't know the statistical failure rate on S54 though.
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      04-27-2015, 01:36 PM   #81
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What was the % of failures on the E46 M3 recall?
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      04-27-2015, 01:36 PM   #82
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Somehow the initial statement in post #1 about car being babied it's whole life doesn't quite fit with red-lined up to a dozen times per day. This engine was designed to be revved, of course, so there is no way I would advocate granny-driving it. Perhaps in the long run, a V8 with this much rev capacity is too close to being a racing engine for usage in a high mileage street car without some expectation of occasional failures. Obviously, it is possible to design such an engine with lower bearing fail rates than what we see here if the development time and focus is there up front at the manufacturer. It looks like some of us will get lucky and a few of us won't (in terms of engine failure), but at the same time how many other V8s in the world can turn 8400 rpm regularly and last for 100k+ miles?
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      04-27-2015, 01:40 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW View Post
Absolutely wrong. The 2-4% will not go up with time. It is a range precisely because it's a statistical expectation of how many engines will experience that failure over their lifetime with high statistical confidence. It's not how many as of yet have failed. Think of it as the final expected value the % will converge to.
I really hope this is factual and based on good information...

What is considered "lifetime" mileage for these engines? Also, do you have any knowledge of an approximate mileage on these engines that most failures will occur by (and therefore, a mileage after which we as owners, if we've not already experienced a failure, should feel somewhat "safe")?
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      04-27-2015, 01:45 PM   #84
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The OP should never have switched to Liquid Moly!!
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      04-27-2015, 01:45 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction

I really hope this is factual and based on good information...
Belgium also had some statistical evidence over a short period of time. Let's just say extrapolated it didn't indicate a 2-4% average failure rate over the life of the car. Who can you really trust anymore about this? Until you get BMW to open the books, it's all hearsay.
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      04-27-2015, 01:47 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
Well, I hope you are right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post
I really hope this is factual and based on good information...

What is considered "lifetime" mileage for these engines? Also, do you have any knowledge of an approximate mileage on these engines that most failures will occur by (and therefore, a mileage after which we as owners, if we've not already experienced a failure, should feel somewhat "safe")?
he is correct, generally with these estimates, it is made by statistical method with assumptions for life expectancy, etc and the numbers are pretty reliable. Usually if actual observations are outside of this 2%-4% range, we're actually talking about chances likely beyond 6 sigmas out of the norm.
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      04-27-2015, 01:49 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowerZ32 View Post
2-4% bearing failure rate seems very high for a production motor. I wonder why there is still no recall on the engine, as ceasing the motor at highway speed represents a danger to public safety. I'm curious if getting NHTSA involved to start an investigation will prompt BMW to do the right thing. Maybe we should get a class action suit started. Are there lawyers on this board?

They did recall on S54 but I don't know the statistical failure rate on S54 though.
Again ?
Was reading your statement at least 5 times on here posted by others!
Saw a lawyer on here with exact the same words..but it were his last words !
The problem is who starts and how , because the lawyers in Germany are no fools...
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      04-27-2015, 01:50 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW View Post
I strongly believe that the B failure issue on the S65 is a compromised oil issue. Oil lubrification gets compromised by "babying" driving pattern that lead to excessive fuel dillution in the oil.
I admittedly "baby" the car and keep it under 3000 rpms until the oil temp needle reaches the middle. Once it's at the middle, I'll open it up several times as traffic allows. Rarely to redline though, often to 6-7k. Would you say this is bad practice to baby it, keeping it under 3,000 until the temp needle reaches towards the middle (210)? It sounds like the OP did this as well and I'm sure lots of owners do this too.

Last edited by FashionablyFast; 04-27-2015 at 08:19 PM..
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