Custom Clevite Rod Bearings

[aussiem3]

I am in for a set please

[aus]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

It seems that the bearings do beat the other issues to the punch, however, once the bearings are sized correctly, the other issues will rear their ugly head more often.

But to better answer your question, yes, I have seen a failed engine recently here in the shop with bearings that weren't destroyed but the side of the rods and crank were badly damaged. As a result the rod was bent as well. I wish I could speak for all the engines out there, but I can only discuss what I have observed myself.

Do you remember the year and approx mileage for that car? I'm hoping that's a rare case compared to all the bearing issues. If it's common, wouldn't the cars who had their bearings changed out still continue to wear the sides down?
.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by aus

Do you remember the year and approx mileage for that car? I'm hoping that's a rare case compared to all the bearing issues. If it's common, wouldn't the cars who had their bearings changed out still continue to wear the sides down?
.

Bearings will have no bearing (no pun intended) on the rod side clearance.

The car in question was a 2012 with less than almost 30k miles.

[SSJVegita]

sub. this is awesome news and hopefully with these our engines will easily hit the 200k mark, in for more news....

[e90_2_f80]

I am in for a set as well.

I am glad I saw this today as I was planning to do the bearings over the holidays. Thank you for the info and please keep us updated.

[rantarM3]

I'm in for one set as well.

[LSx]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

It's great that a proper sized bearing is planning to be manufactured. However this doesn't solve the rod side clearance issue.

You can slot the rod cap while it's off to give the oil an escape path, that's pretty much the only option I can think of short of pulling heads and getting the rods out to modify them properly.

[jagman]

I'm very interested, too. Good work!

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by LSx

You can slot the rod cap while it's off to give the oil an escape path, that's pretty much the only option I can think of short of pulling heads and getting the rods out to modify them properly.

This has already been going on, and you are correct it helps.

[imstimpy]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

This has already been going on, and you are correct it helps.

I didn't see anything written on this particular solution. Do you have a more in-depth post you can link me to?

[JTO24]

As a relatively new engineer for a plain bearing company, this pleases me Great work guys!

[Sephiroth]

Sounds good count me in! My car is an 08 with 66k miles now so i feel i gotta get this done in 2015.

Approx. how much time/effort OR money would the whole process of opening up the motor, removing the old bearings, and installing the new ones take?

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by 1love

Sounds good count me in! My car is an 08 with 66k miles now so i feel i gotta get this done in 2015.

Approx. how much time/effort OR money would the whole process of opening up the motor, removing the old bearings, and installing the new ones take?

I got quotes from $1800-2000. Dropping the oil pan, etc.

[pbonsalb]

Someone who has done it a few times could probably do it in an 8 hour day if using ARP bolts rather than new stock bolts. EAS has done a bunch and I bet they are doing it in 8 hours, and they charge $2350 including parts. Parts are about $850 for bearings, WPC treatment, ARP bolts, pan gasket, oil and filter.

Doing it yourself, as a first timer, allow twice that -- two 8 hour days or a weekend. I did it myself and it took about 12-15 hours, but I did a coolant flush and power steering drain as well. I could do it again in less time.

[aus]

Originally Posted by LSx

You can slot the rod cap while it's off to give the oil an escape path, that's pretty much the only option I can think of short of pulling heads and getting the rods out to modify them properly.

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

This has already been going on, and you are correct it helps.

Could either one of you explain this process?
Thanks.
.

[LSx]

Originally Posted by aus

Could either one of you explain this process?
Thanks.
.

Early Oldsmobile engines were plagued with that same issue you guys have with this BMW motor - one part of the several steps taken to address the oiling issues in that specific motor family is to grind the cheeks of the rods to make them narrower so there's more side clearance, but you also mill a .015" deep x .500" wide slot in the cheek of the rod to give an additional path for oil to escape in order to keep fresh cooler oil entering the bearing.

This is generally done as part of a complete engine build so the rods are out of the motor and is usually only done to the beam side of the rod so that the stream of oil is directed up towards the cam/piston/cyl wall rather than to the side or down into the oil pan...but in the case of an in-chassis bearing swap you'll only have access to the cap side of the rod.

The proper fix is to narrow the whole rod big end with them out of the motor because gaining extra clearance with these thinner rod bearings is only part of the solution and not a complete fix if the rods are so tight together on the journal that oil can't get out... but because I'm assuming most people won't be up for taking the motor apart that far, the next best option is the slot on the cap.

Looks similar to this gap in the cheek that was forged in place.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by LSx

Early Oldsmobile engines were plagued with that same issue you guys have with this BMW motor

Total blasphemy putting Oldsmobile and BMW in the same sentence...unless you're talking about the Aztek and 5GT.

Seriously...great info. I guess if I were tearing the engine down then I wouldn't necessarily run to these bearings since I could adjust clearances with machine work.

I understand this as the side clearances cause pressure build up from the oil not being able to escape causing the rod to bang into the side of the journal? By machining a notch into the side it acts as a sort of pressure relief.

Am I correct? (probably not)

[LSx]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Total blasphemy putting Oldsmobile and BMW in the same sentence...unless you're talking about the Aztek and 5GT.

Seriously...great info. I guess if I were tearing the engine down then I wouldn't necessarily run to these bearings since I could adjust clearances with machine work.

I understand this as the side clearances cause pressure build up from the oil not being able to escape causing the rod to bang into the side of the journal? By machining a notch into the side it acts as a sort of pressure relief.

Am I correct? (probably not)

Agreed.

Well if these bearings become available then they'll be the best way to fix the bearing clearance because it's a drop-in solution. The other way to do it is to either get a good crank grinder to try to remove just .001" or so from the crank journals and use a standard bearing, but that's not possible many times with production cranks so it would have to be ground to .010"(.25mm).

The way we do this from scratch with our much more common race motors where aftermarket engine parts are plentiful is to torque up the mains on the block or big end of the connecting rods with the bearings we want to use in place and measure with a dial bore gauge. Then have the crank ground to the exact size needed to give us the desired clearance. If the sizing isn't perfect there's plus and minus bearings available that you can mix and match to adjust the clearance by as little as .0005" - point is that if your crank is in good condition then with these thinner bearings you now have the ability to fix the clearance without grinding the crank so it's the best solution to the problem.

Side clearance is the second part of the equation, it allows the oil to flow out of the bearing so it can be constantly replaced by fresh cool oil. If the rods are too tight to each other on the rod throw they can rub against each other instead of having a constant flow of oil separating them, that's what causes the blueing on the cheeks - friction/heat.

The notch is an imperfect solution to getting oil out of the bearing since for many removing the rods to actually adjust the side clearance may be out of budget or for some other reason not desired. The real fix is to remove the rods and grind the cheeks.

Odd thing is wondering why the hell the engineers are running them so tight, there's absolutely no upside to running a tight side clearance on rods, oil pressure is set by the clearance between the bearing and the journal, not by bottlenecking the system and not allowing the oil to escape once it's done it's job. On piston guided rod engines we'll run .060" rod side clearance and there's no effect on oil pressure, the main bearings on engines are open to the crankcase on the side and oil flows freely out, there's just absolutely no reason to risk these kind of engine failures by making these parts too tight to each other.

[xpunisherx]

Awesome to see folks out there solving the issues with this awesome car!!! Hats off to you Kawi!!! And count me when they are ready.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by LSx

Agreed.

Well if these bearings become available then they'll be the best way to fix the bearing clearance because it's a drop-in solution. The other way to do it is to either get a good crank grinder to try to remove just .001" or so from the crank journals and use a standard bearing, but that's not possible many times with production cranks so it would have to be ground to .010"(.25mm).

The way we do this from scratch with our much more common race motors where aftermarket engine parts are plentiful is to torque up the mains on the block or big end of the connecting rods with the bearings we want to use in place and measure with a dial bore gauge. Then have the crank ground to the exact size needed to give us the desired clearance. If the sizing isn't perfect there's plus and minus bearings available that you can mix and match to adjust the clearance by as little as .0005" - point is that if your crank is in good condition then with these thinner bearings you now have the ability to fix the clearance without grinding the crank so it's the best solution to the problem.

Side clearance is the second part of the equation, it allows the oil to flow out of the bearing so it can be constantly replaced by fresh cool oil. If the rods are too tight to each other on the rod throw they can rub against each other instead of having a constant flow of oil separating them, that's what causes the blueing on the cheeks - friction/heat.

The notch is an imperfect solution to getting oil out of the bearing since for many removing the rods to actually adjust the side clearance may be out of budget or for some other reason not desired. The real fix is to remove the rods and grind the cheeks.

Odd thing is wondering why the hell the engineers are running them so tight, there's absolutely no upside to running a tight side clearance on rods, oil pressure is set by the clearance between the bearing and the journal, not by bottlenecking the system and not allowing the oil to escape once it's done it's job. On piston guided rod engines we'll run .060" rod side clearance and there's no effect on oil pressure, the main bearings on engines are open to the crankcase on the side and oil flows freely out, there's just absolutely no reason to risk these kind of engine failures by making these parts too tight to each other.

[Titan9]

Us s85 guys are lurking in the shadows. Once everything is sorted, we'd be interested in an s85 package.

[Richbot]

Sometimes I wonder if the design tolerances were so tight because they designed for best case and just flat ignored the possibility that they could screw up or that their suppliers could screw up.

I also wonder if it was planned obsolescence, Apple style. If the battery won't hold a charge or there's a hole in the block either way you buy the latest Iphone or the latest Mcar because fanboy