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03-28-2011, 09:01 PM | #177 |
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Soooo looks like it's a dinan tune scheduled next Tuesday for the M6 and the M3 lol
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03-28-2011, 10:13 PM | #178 | |
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I have always encouraged customers to do testing independently, at your shop, my shop, VBOX, 1/4 mile, whatever. Come to your own conclusions. A dyno is a tool that gives a before vs. after comparison. No dyno is perfect, nor the operators. High speed on the street is impractical. If you know better methods than I mentioned, then I would love the opportunity to try. Jeremy We try to make the very best quality products for the BMW community. Keeping our customers' happy is our number 1 goal. Sorry to the owner of the M3 who only wanted to share in his excitment for new found power. (Thanks Sal for the great advice. Shootout mode from now on.) |
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03-28-2011, 11:27 PM | #179 | |
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Maybe we should save the 'OE/Gintani for manipulating dynos' on a new thread. Or, maybe I'm taking what the OP said too much at face value and he really is saying that OE/Gintani are cheaters and no good but just being 'Politically Correct' at the same time. I dunno...just my .02 BTW, is OE/Gintani gonna respond to the challenge/accusations yet or what?? |
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03-29-2011, 05:42 AM | #180 | |
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If the OP has a lot of keyboard time in with various forums, then he knows that a post which bring into question the integrity of a sponsor doesn't usually stick around for long. Thankfully not here.
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03-29-2011, 06:53 AM | #181 |
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Sorry guys (the stats guys) I am really missing the point (and I have a degree in Math and have studied statistics as well). Or perhaps everyone just is not on the same page.
Is the "problem" the uniformity of the gains across the entire rpm range, the peak gained value or the average value gained? The way I understood it was that the uniformity of the gains across the rpm range indicate some sort of cheat or constant scaling factor. I certainly agree with that observation - one data set sticks out like a sore thumb. If the variable being condensed to a single value for the distribution plots is simply the average % power gained that is a totally separate issue from the gain vs rpm curves linearities. Also, somewhat nit picky, but the values in the y axis should be 100 times larger if the title of the chart is "Percentage...". In my view the linearity is the clue to a cheat and then the average value of the curve also becomes suspect. Would a very linear curve of gain vs. rpm but at a constant (low) say 4% gain be a red flag? I don't think it would be. It is the combination of high linearity and high average gain that is the "double whammy". Really you might want to make 2 sets of plots. 1 that is simply average % gained across all rpms vs. vendor. The other would be some measure of the linearity of each curve. The most simple metric would max-min. You could also use the "RMS" value (square root of the sum of the squared deviations of each rpm point - (Sum((value-mean value)^2))^1/2 ).
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03-29-2011, 07:10 AM | #182 |
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When things go bad at Gintani, OE says they are independent. When things go bad at OE Tuning, Gintani says they are independent. The post from Jeremy at Gintani says the true story. But it's also a forum violation to post under another person's screen name and will get you immediately banned. Why isn't this account now banned?
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03-29-2011, 08:10 AM | #183 |
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Hey off topic, but it seems that everyone is focused on this thread so I wanted to know if they do anything with the ECU for the 1200 mile break-in service and if it'll over-write an existing tune....
my SA told me that launch control is disable during break-in (i've heard conflicting things from some of you on here) so this is why I assumed they might do something to the computer...
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03-29-2011, 09:14 AM | #184 | |
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You just really hate OE/Gintani huh?
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03-29-2011, 12:54 PM | #185 | |||||
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The remarkable linearity (as you aptly put it) of the raw gains are: OE @ Gintani: 4000 9 4500 10 5000 11 5500 12 6000 13 6500 14 7000 15 7500 16 8000 16 ESS: 4000 6 4500 6 5000 7.5 5500 13 6000 12 6500 16 7000 17 7500 15.5 8000 17.5 AA: 4000 13 4500 13 5000 14 5500 20 6000 27 6500 31 7000 23 7500 26 8000 29 GIAC: 4000 7 4500 9 5000 13 5500 11 6000 17 6500 16 7000 21 7500 21 8000 25 Quote:
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03-29-2011, 01:00 PM | #186 |
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If you really paid any attention to a statistics class you would know that the sample size you are working with is far to small to actually justify any results you come up with.
In reality all of this like I said before is pretty simple to solve if Gintani or someone with their tune would just go to a 3rd party dyno and get a new dyno. |
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03-29-2011, 02:06 PM | #187 |
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Why so angry? No need to go on the attack. It only pushes the thread off topic.
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03-29-2011, 02:30 PM | #188 | |
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03-29-2011, 02:39 PM | #189 |
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Sick and tired of this
Alright I am really getting sick of how this forum/forum members (mainly a few) are doing their best to bring down our company. I believe that we have shown enough evidence that we do not alter our dyno. Are you guys afraid of a little competition? Is that it? A company has finally came about that actually has or has the potential to have better products than other/your company?? Is that what this is all about? Ever since we came out with our exhaust system, all these speculations came about that we do not actually make the power that we say we do. But as many of you can recall, we actually do make great power with our exhaust systems and yes people dyno their cars on other DYNO's which proves the gains. Then, when the S/C kit came about.. all hell broke lose. We actually have a great kit and many people wont give the chance for other people to find that out. I don't know if many of you recall but it is/was the same usual 5-6 people that claim we lie. Hmmmm I wonder why?
Lets start with.. M33.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain to me what we have done to you. We haven't done a single business transaction with each other, so why hate man? You have a competitors kit on your car, cool man congrats to you. We are really glad you like it, but why hate on ours? Do you know how long it takes and how many hours of R/D we have put in to actually have a product like a S/C?? DO you? I don't think so. While you sleep at night, we are working on making our products better and better. Also when have we EVER said that we are independent from OE Tuning and vise versa.. WHEN? Look at our website, it says that OE TUNING is our sister company. When has OE blown a MBZ motor, come on man stop acting like a child. I can honestly go on for hours, pages, whatever it is.. but I will just stop here. It is REALLY easy to talk big behind a computer screen. Really easy. As for everyone saying that we are not accepting this challenge, well let me tell you guys something. We have accepted and offered many challanges before, but for some reason it is always another company (not going to name them) that is a no show.. Why is that?? Afraid? and please don't give me any of that bias dyno bs, because we are not the ones who pick the place and time. I am really frustrated with all of this. ONLY because almost everything people hear/read about is FALSE. Yes there was an issue with lawsuits before, but you guys don't know 3/4 of it. We have explained how that mess happened and who's fault it really was, but of course no one believes what we say. Should we just not answer or not say anything anymore? From the looks of it, there is no point because many people just ignore what we say or what we do. As you can tell I am very frustrated with all this, and I honestly do not care what many people will think after reading my post. Do you guys know how much R/D, hours, sweat, blood, it takes to come out with products for automobiles? Some do, some might know the pain.. but for others its just a fun game to play online. For anyone who has questions please give us a call and talk to us in person, email me or shoot me a PM. Thanks, Raz Last edited by Raz@Gintani; 03-29-2011 at 10:45 PM.. |
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03-29-2011, 02:44 PM | #190 |
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That was convincing. If other people have dynod their OE tuning or Gintani products on other dynos other than Gintani, then why don't they speak up and confirm whether results were worse, the same or better? This seems like it shouldn't be this big of an issue. Most of what is said is speculation, and I'm sorry, but while these distribution graphs are a cool use of Excel and some statistics, they really prove absolutely nothing.
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03-29-2011, 02:45 PM | #191 |
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See, here is what I was talking about. An example of a result that verifies the claims. We need more of that.
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03-29-2011, 02:46 PM | #192 |
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Raz,
Nothing against you or your company. But you have not posted any evidence, that is the issue. There has yet to be one attempt at explaining why your gains are so linear across the entire graph. No one is trying to bring your company down. They have been questioning a very suspicious dyno graph from your company, that is all. Everyone has been asking for an explanation of it. Simple. If it's legit then there's no doubt you have the best tune. Please explain it for us.
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03-29-2011, 02:48 PM | #193 | |
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03-29-2011, 02:50 PM | #194 | |
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Raz claims that he is tired of this bashing on his company, well maybe we members of the forum in which you advertise your product, stop giving us the run-around and just own up to the truth and come clean? talk about tired of this and that, how much drama has your company gone through on pretty much every single BMW forum? Worth all the trouble? |
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03-29-2011, 04:23 PM | #196 | |||
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What really matters is how your car produces on the street (track). If you do not agree with this statement then you probably are afraid to drive your car at its full potential. Sorry but truth hurts. Bottom line is, many people do not give us a chance. I do not know why and I am starting to not care. If you want to be gullible and listen to rumors please go ahead. We will still do what we do and we hope some of you will open your eyes and realize that we are a legit company and that we actually care about our costumers and the community. Last edited by Raz@Gintani; 03-29-2011 at 10:46 PM.. |
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03-29-2011, 04:36 PM | #197 | |
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03-29-2011, 05:18 PM | #198 | |
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