Getting MDM, is it possible?

[Technic]

You cannot activate MDM as it is neither a retrofit, an accessory or a function. It is a subfeature of DSC, with a separate option code in the VO. Therefore, if the sucker is not listed in the VO then it does not exist, much less to command or activate.

For example, you do not need to add the CD Changer to the VO to activate it, as you saw in the BT tool. That is because there is a retrofit path, dedicated exactly for official accessories/retrofits. Other activations are directly related to what is listed in the VO. There's no official MDM retrofit, so the retrofit path will not list anything related to DSC or much less MDM. Thus no activation anything.

But there is a VO option code that may or may not unlock the MDM feature and only if the code is dormant.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Thank you for posting your results Finnegan. Much appreciated. It is too bad you didn't hit pay-dirt, but as you said, this is by no means the final word yet.

One thing that immediately comes to mind would be - what is the DCT dash switch wired to from the factory? It must be "activate"-ing something somewhere, right?

That is a fair assumption at this point. We need someone with a manual to figure this out as tracing the wiring manually would be a challenge to say the least. I'll continue down the pathway I suggested last evening as well.

I'd note that almost all of the switches for the vehicle interior (top up/down, windows up/down, headlights, A/C, Fan, etc.) were listed as "activations" (which means you could simulate toggling the switch with a mouse click with the BT software). The notable exceptions for our purposes were DSC, Power, and EDC if I recall correctly. I'll take another look through everything tonight at the list and make sure I didn't miss something as a double check.

[FrenchBoy]

Great effort Finnegan. I am encouraged that something good will come out of all this! Hopefully, some tuners are also reading this and are seeing market potential.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Technic

Well, the MDM is another option (code 2MD) in the ordering list of a vehicle so it is a matter of adding that option code into the particular Vehicle Order.

If the MDM code is dormant in the ECU it could be possible that as simple as flashing a new Vehicle Order with MDM included this option be enabled.

However, you need to understand that you are changing the Vehicle Order to something outside the factory USA specs and configuration for your particular VIN. So if your car requires a general software update by the dealer some day most probably it will not be able to be loaded -either completely or correctly- just because software updates are linked to the VIN and the VIN is linked to the Vehicle Order.

You will have a Vehicle Order that does not match the Vehicle Order that that BMW has linked the VIN for your car. That's the bad news.

The very bad news is that it is also very possible to simply mess up several modules in your car by changing the VO in the event of the VO forcing other modules to change parameters due to the VO addition -for example, the iDrive will have now the MDM screen but the steering wheel M button changing function caused a conflict in the other SW buttons, the steering effort or even the DSC button and functionality.

And none of those modules recovery -if even possible- will be covered by warranty.

This is no joke.

Originally Posted by Technic

You cannot activate MDM as it is neither a retrofit, an accessory or a function. It is a subfeature of DSC, with a separate option code in the VO. Therefore, if the sucker is not listed in the VO then it does not exist, much less to command or activate.

For example, you do not need to add the CD Changer to the VO to activate it, as you saw in the BT tool. That is because there is a retrofit path, dedicated exactly for official accessories/retrofits. Other activations are directly related to what is listed in the VO. There's no official MDM retrofit, so the retrofit path will not list anything related to DSC or much less MDM. Thus no activation anything.

But there is a VO option code that may or may not unlock the MDM feature and only if the code is dormant.

Bear with me, I'm not anywhere near your level of technical expertise so I need to make sure I'm getting this, so see if I'm kind of getting based on what I write below.

To draw an analogy the VO is like the infamous Windows Registry: a list stored in the ECU memory that describes the options (hardware and software and modules) the car has. A master list if you will that describes what the car has (like IDrive, DCT, MT, Vert Roof, etc.). It may also describe the software (such as MDM) that was also purchased as an option.

What I'm seeing in the BT Tool in terms of modules that I can access is based on what is in the VO. For example, some of the modules listed the left side in the BT Tool screenshot do not "work" at all if I select them because they don't exist on the VO (if I recall correctly "Transfer Case" which is for Xdrive I believe). Other examples would be the convertible roof or sunroof--those don't "work" in the BT Tool if you don't have that as part of the car.

For modules that do work (that are listed in the VO) there's another layer: subfeatures. (Again, this is sounding alot like Windows Registry.) So, I can look at few things that are for Stability Control for my car based on its VO but the lack of activations/commands is a result of what is (or is not) described in the VO. And, since it's not in the VO there's no way to "activate it". (Oversimplified I realize but I think it gets close enough to point out that trying to trace wiring or use the existing switch simply won't work.)

Bottom line is that we'd have to find a way to change the VO and add this option (2MD). Once that's done then we could see what was listed under that VO in terms of commands/activations. Even then it's probably not that simple as there may be program code that might need to be added. (Adding the option code may work if the code is already loaded; coding would be required if not.) This is akin to changing a registry entry to point at a driver or DLL (which assumes the driver/dll is there). If the DLL or driver is there, great, if not, well, it won't work or blue screen.

Lastly, and you pointed this out awhile ago, adding the 2MD VO could have some very unintended consequences (as in high risk/safety) as throttle control, ABS/braking, etc. are all interconnected modules/systems. The 2MD option may assume the existance of Idrive and M buttons etc. as well. Then again, it might not, but some serious testing would be required given the key nature of systems being impacted. Also, in terms of risk, changing the VO from what the BMW VIN shows "should be" in the ECU could cause problems for Progman (or ISTAPA or whatever they call it now) updates.

I may be pushing the Windows Registry analogy too far, but damn if this isn't sounding similar to how that works. Yikes.

I think this will require a vendor solution. Most of the vendor modules I've seen appear to have retrofit pathways or existing base option level (things that are always in the VO) functionality which can be trigged just as you would through the BT Tool (windows down, DVD, etc.) But there may be a way.

I think I've got it. Please let me know if not. Your help and knowledge is appreciated! Thanks

[Technic]

Pretty much that's it...

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

A simple switch isn't going to work. Think of the entire car as a computer network. Features are activated and deactivated with network messages, not physical switches. The physical switches tell the computer to generate the message that activates the functioniality.

I suspect the software to drive MDM is already in your car. Thinking that a vendor like ESS will actually write source code is a bit far fetched. While I don't know how their DCT software works, I believe their ECU upgrades are just modifying tables, not modifying any actual source code in any of the computer modules. I'll bet the DCT upgrades are the same thing. Basically I'm saying that you can forget about anybody actually modifying the source code of any of the computers in your vehicle.

Yes...those functional mods on your 335 are activated using CAN BUS messages. I suspect underneath the skins of this feature, it's enabled with a simple CAN message. Whether or not it can be activated without 2MD in the VO is another question. But I'm willing to bet if you put an CAN analyzer on your car and press the button that enables MDM, you'll see a bunch of messages on the CAN bus (1x enable sport+, 1x enable throttle mapping, 1x enable sport steering, 1x enable MDM). It's even possible that all of these messages are emitted every time you press the M-Button, but the main module in charge decides to act or not act on it depending on how the VO is set, and/or features enabled in iDrive.

Trust me, I think you're looking for a CAN bus message for MDM, and nothing else. Your black box would enable MDM by emitting this message (and possibly requiring 2MD to be anabled in the VO).

So this builds the case that you need to enable 2MD in the VO.

Tracing wires will not help you. You need a CAN bus analyzer and somebody who knows how to decipher the messages. BT is the ideal company to do this...because that's basically their job already.

Thanks PG!

I concluded physical wiring wasn't going to provide the answer after reading Technic's posts (see my post 70). We'll see what my inquiry to BT nets us. If it's as you say (and I have very good reason to believe you) then BT would be part of the "vendor solution" we're looking for.

If BT can decipher these CAN messages then there's probably a way to build a module to emulate those CANbus messages similar to other modules on the market like the remoteKey that opens windows or Tvinmotion that allows you to play DVDs while moving. Another example would probably be to the CANbus features the Procede uses/used to clear remove faults and shadow fault codes from the ECU on the 335 (which you and mkoesel already mentioned).

[aus]

Wouldn't this be a perfect "Performance upgrade" for BMW to offer? Personally, I think ti should be on ALL M-cars as a STANDARD feature!!

[michaeldorian]

Originally Posted by aus

Wouldn't this be a perfect "Performance upgrade" for BMW to offer? Personally, I think ti should be on ALL M-cars as a STANDARD feature!!

We can only wish.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

A simple switch isn't going to work. Think of the entire car as a computer network. Features are activated and deactivated with network messages, not physical switches. The physical switches tell the computer to generate the message that activates the functioniality.

Right, I am completely with you PG. In discussing the button, I was really just talking about it from the end user perspective. The button is just the UI. Not the hardest part of the problem to solve by any means, but still an important consideration.

Originally Posted by Finnegan

To draw an analogy the VO is like the infamous Windows Registry...

Nice analogy, Finnegan, I like it. In my experience with computers and computer engineering, there are a lot of abstract design patterns that are repeated and reapplied throughout the entirety of the hardware/software stack. So discussing things in broad context at a low level often helps fill in the holes (if you will).

Of course, as you probably are very aware, there is more than one way to skin a cat (or a car ). The registry, for example, is just a big database. But all the moving parts that access it and get their instructions from it can be manipulated in other ways (some much more subtle). For example I could set up a separate process (maybe as a service) and register event hooks and/or trap messages from any process as they occur and augment or change the behavior of the system in that way instead. Again, I'm sure you know all this, but I just thought I take your analogy and run with it.

... Even then it's probably not that simple as there may be program code that might need to be added.

This is the biggest "if" in my mind. If some or all of the software associated with MDM isn't there, then I think we have to fall back on plan B, which is basically what Technic had mentioned awhile back. That is, an outside vendor would have to design their own MDM-like software. And that would mean lots of R&D and testing and money.

Lastly, and you pointed this out awhile ago, adding the 2MD VO could have some very unintended consequences (as in high risk/safety) as throttle control, ABS/braking, etc. are all interconnected modules/systems.

This is why I am a bit skeptical about actually adding 2MD in such a formal way. We don't really want MDrive after all - we just want a small (or perhaps medium sized, say) piece of the functionality that is normally lumped under the MDrive umbrella.

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Trust me, I think you're looking for a CAN bus message for MDM, and nothing else. Your black box would enable MDM by emitting this message (and possibly requiring 2MD to be anabled in the VO).

...

I suspect the software to drive MDM is already in your car.

...

I suspect underneath the skins of this feature, it's enabled with a simple CAN message.

...

I'm willing to bet if you put an CAN analyzer on your car and press the button that enables MDM, you'll see a bunch of messages on the CAN bus (1x enable sport+, 1x enable throttle mapping, 1x enable sport steering, 1x enable MDM). It's even possible that all of these messages are emitted every time you press the M-Button, but the main module in charge decides to act or not act on it depending on how the VO is set, and/or features enabled in iDrive.

I like where you are going with this PG. A great next step might be for someone with an MDrive equipped car to snoop around with this CAN analyzer you mention. But, where does one obtain such a device and at what cost?

Tracing wires will not help you.

Tracing wires won't lead immediately to a solution, but it could be helpful in telling us what the source of these CAN messages are. That is to say that, once we verify they exist in the context of MDM, it would still be nice to know what module is generating them. That way, we can determine if said module can be prodded easily into sending out the desired messages/commands/whatever, or whether a custom module that sends these same commands will need to be engineered instead.

[mkoesel]

BUMP.

I googled CAN Analyzer and found a bunch of products. Here is one with a free demo, but I have no idea if it does what we need (it sounds promising at least).

http://www.softing.com/home/en/indus...l-analyzer.php

Also no idea if the demo provides the needed functionality. Plus, I don't have the required hardware and don't know how much it costs (I haven't searched on that yet).

Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?

[Edman951]

Found some info that could help see the path.
In the attached E90 dynamic driving systems file.
Maybe someone can see better what is required to get MDM on a non idrive M3.

I'd love to get MDM on mine for sure. I'd pay for it.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

You need a CAN bus analyzer and somebody who knows how to decipher the messages. BT is the ideal company to do this...because that's basically their job already.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

BUMP.

I googled CAN Analyzer and found a bunch of products. Here is one with a free demo, but I have no idea if it does what we need (it sounds promising at least).

http://www.softing.com/home/en/indus...l-analyzer.php

Also no idea if the demo provides the needed functionality. Plus, I don't have the required hardware and don't know how much it costs (I haven't searched on that yet).

Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?

I don't have experience with this stuff, but I'm willing to help as far as I can. As PG suggested, BT may be the right company to work with to decipher the messaging.

I have the Bavarian Technic tool and am willing (as my work/travel schedule permits) to use one of my three license seats on an MDM enabled car to see what we can read. I suspect the answer at this point is "nothing" based on my review of the modules commands activations fully supported for our cars on the BT tool site and their Wiki. But this really goes beyond my area of technical expertise guys so I'm not the last word on that.

I can offer the following:

• My car as a "non MDM" subject (I don't have EDC nor do I have NAV--it's pretty bare bones in terms of options). Perhaps more in terms of testing if/when we get there.
• Use of my BT tool to "read" an "MDM" car (requires a person/car that can be read on several occassions since the licensing is per VIN and I have 3 VINs I can read with the tool--I need to keep two of those for personal use).
• Correspondence with BT if someone help me draft an email defining what we want (and see if they'll add the functionality to "read" these messages as they're enhancing the product all the time).
  • An alternative would be to use some of the facts I help gather and have someone else correspond with them (preferred). My role would be simply as a resource to carry out tasks for this workgroup and to offer up my time and BT tool.

Steps as I see them are:

1. Try to read an MDM car. I doubt this will acheive anything at this point since the ability to "see" that part of DSC/MDM doesn't appear to be in the tool. But it seems sensible to test that first before bugging BT about "can you add this".
2. Correspond with BT--see where we can get with that.
3. Determine how to proceed after step 2.

Requirements:

• I need someone in the Sacramento area with MDM willing to be a partner in this endeavor.
• I also need someone with greater tech experience than I to correspond with BT or be a ghost writer/consultant in my correspondence with them.

I'm open to other thoughts/input, but that's what I can do if it would be of any help.

[mkoesel]

Finnegan - to clarify something for me - is the BT tool that you have able to act as a CAN analyzer?

I would tend to agree with you that, even for a MDM equipped car, there might not be anything more in the list of available modules that your printout showed above. But it is definitely something worth looking into. So thank you for volunteering that - hopefully someone with ZTP will help out.

Failing anything useful there, I still go back to the notion that *something* must be sending out a command to something else when MDM is selected in the MDrive setup in IDrive. We may need a CAN analyzer to figure out what though.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Finnegan - to clarify something for me - is the BT tool that you have able to act as a CAN analyzer?

I would tend to agree with you that, even for a MDM equipped car, there might not be anything more in the list of available modules that your printout showed above. But it is definitely something worth looking into. So thank you for volunteering that - hopefully someone with ZTP will help out.

Failing anything useful there, I still go back to the notion that *something* must be sending out a command to something else when MDM is selected in the MDrive setup in IDrive. We may need a CAN analyzer to figure out what though.

No, it's not a CANbus analyzer in the sense you're describing. But I think it can still help us. Let's go the route of seeing if the tool will allow the user to activate/deactivate DSC and MDM on a ZTP car.

[DBordello]

Can you get raw bus messages with the BT tool? The BT front end probably doesn't know what to do with the commands.

Can you simply log what is on the CANbus? Can you send messages to the CANbus?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

No, the BT tool does not provide any of these capabilities. The point about working with BT is because: 1) They already have experience with BMW's, 2) They already have experience reverse-engineering the CAN bus messages, and 3) They have a CAN bus analyzer.

Exactly. And that's the route I planned on taking based on your earlier post.

I just want to run a test with a ZTP car first to make sure what we're looking for isn't already supported in the most current version of the tool. (If the CANbus messages we're looking for aren't detectable in the current software version then we'll see if BT can add that functionality in a future release). Thanks.

Edit/Note: The BT Tool is comprised of the hardware (OBDII connector/USB cable) and software (new versions of which come out from time to time and which are downloadable).

[URBAN LEGEND]

Some of you guys are extremely smart. I have no clue what you guys talk of.

[michaeldorian]

Finnegan and team - Any updates? Anyone still pursuing this?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Finnegan and team - Any updates? Anyone still pursuing this?

I am. I'll PM you the details. Everyone else, I figure 1 week until news gets posted here.

[FrenchBoy]

I was actually thinking about this too. Looking forward to hearing more about your findings.

[e46e92love]

Nice work guys, really sick if you are able to get this done and probably worth a nice chunk of chain to the group that gets the info if indeed MDM can be "activated". On cars without MDM option/iDrive

Cheers,
e46e92

[mkoesel]

Thanks a bunch Finnegan. I was just wondering yesterday how things were coming, so I look forward to your update.