11/10/2013 ACS Incident / Lesson

[CalSE]

Found this youtube vid...

Purple Mid-intermediate Group second session at around 11:30 a.m....I think the last lap and the driver lost braking power.

Similarly, I was in the Black Group and this also almost happened to me during heavy traffic when a Miata tried to follow my 380mm BBK before T3. Sure enough the Miata had to break race line, like when one dive bombs to overtake prior to a turn, to avoid rear ending me. I doubted the Miata's braking and turning capability, and I went straight off the track through the cones. If I didn't watch my ass and blindly took T3 because point by passing only group, I would have been blind-sided for sure, and game over.

She apologized for her mistake quickly after the session ended before I got to her. I was still pissed!

My lesson. Always try to assess the capabilities of the cars following you!

[jbraslins]

Did the brake failure made the car turn-in? Why the hell did not he just keep going straight.

[derekp]

Wow thats crazy! I was there on the 9th and there was only one minor incident in the Orange group. It does seem strange why they wouldn't just run down the straight. Unless something else happened to cause the turn in. Hope everyone was OK looked like a pretty hard hit.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by jbraslins

Did the brake failure made the car turn-in? Why the hell did not he just keep going straight.

Looks like target fixation to me as I agree going straight on would have been the best option after turning to not hit the car that was just turning in.

[LiM3y]

Was the yellow flag ahead waving before the prang? That might have been a distraction. I am not sure why it was waving after it, unless there was another crash further ahead of that station.

I am wondering if there was a brake failure on one side

[satakal]

I saw an ambulance leave the facility yesterday. I hate seeing stuff like this.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by jbraslins

Did the brake failure made the car turn-in? Why the hell did not he just keep going straight.

was thinking the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by satakal

I saw an ambulance leave the facility yesterday. I hate seeing stuff like this.

i agree...i dont like watching these videos but i do it to try and learn from their mistakes...

[pkimM3r]

Maybe first thought was avoid the guy in front, but did it completely wrong?

[will.c]

Seems like the driver of the white car panicked when he/she was very quickly approaching the car in front in the braking zone, and his/her attempt was to avoid hitting the car by turning in (going through gravel and all) because the other car was still on the right side of the track.

Although he/she probably could have avoided hitting the car by going straight and getting real close to the wall, it could have been much worse by either hitting the car in the back, or cutting it off from the left as it turned in. I'd say that was actually considerate of the driver to try to avoid a collision between the two cars entirely. Unfortunate...

[Crimson92]

scary, there was a crash the day before but I believe it was in the red group.

[knolow]

Hopefully no one was hurt. This sh8t scares the bzeeesus out of me when I see/here about it on the track. I'm def getting track insurance next season.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Sebringjetta

i agree...i dont like watching these videos but i do it to try and learn from their mistakes...

If that crash was caused by a mechanical failure, there is nothing to learn obviously.
Can happen to anyone.

[carlos@velosdesignwerks]

ouch...! still trying to figure out what provoked him to cut in so early... doubt it was a braking failure, seems more like panic IMO

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

If that crash was caused by a mechanical failure, there is nothing to learn obviously.
Can happen to anyone.

I disagree as there was tons to learn there!The one thing that I stress to my students is having a course of action thought out if something goes wrong and to think of the possible scenarios before they happen.On your out lap with a student its a really good idea to discuss where the runoffs are and to remember about them and not to panic if you need them.This has saved my ass more than once.When going to a new track it should be part of the familiarization to acquaint (not by using them)yourself with the escape areas .

[surlynkid]

wow. if lost braking power is truly the cause, just go wide right around the front car and straight down that open area after the cones. it did not seem like he was so close to the car in front to need to do such an evasive manuever. exit strategy was around to the right, not cut off the corner. some people fixate that the designated track is the only way to go. there was a ton of easy runoff straight ahead.

[surlynkid]

[QUOTE=Gearhead999s;14957346]On your out lap with a student its a really good idea to discuss where the runoffs are and to remember about them and not to panic if you need them.QUOTE]

i have taken an instructor on a fun excursion around some cones and outside the track line when i had a brake issue. took the run off and then got back on track.

[Groundpilot]

Why was that camaro so wide going into the left hander? Maybe he gave a point by and left some extra room for passing? It looks like overtaking car got too optimistic, broke too late and when realized there was no way to avoid collision with camaro, panicked and instead of going straight, turned in abruptly making things worse.

[tlp]

It looks to me like the driver just spaced out looking straight and realized with knee jerk reflexes that he wanted to be left. With all of the straight run off it's hard to believe that it even happened in the first place.

[surlynkid]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Why was that camaro so wide going into the left hander? Maybe he gave a point by and left some extra room for passing? It looks like overtaking car got too optimistic, broke too late and when realized there was no way to avoid collision with camaro, panicked and instead of going straight, turned in abruptly making things worse.

intermediate group would not be getting a point by to pass in a corner. if he did mean it for the straight, it was late or the car that crashed should have waived it off.

the more I look at that, I wonder if he was not really paying attention to where the turn was and was only looking at the car in front. then irrationally and quickly turned in early thinking that was where the pavement was.

[dapopa9]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Why was that camaro so wide going into the left hander? Maybe he gave a point by and left some extra room for passing? It looks like overtaking car got too optimistic, broke too late and when realized there was no way to avoid collision with camaro, panicked and instead of going straight, turned in abruptly making things worse.

probably because he noticed a G37 about to explode coming up in his rearview mirror! haaa

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

wow. if lost braking power is truly the cause, just go wide right around the front car and straight down that open area after the cones.

FYI...if you lose braking power, need to stay ON the brake pedal. Although there's no firmness there's still pressure in the system and the brakes are working. Most just panic and freak out. I have done some research on this...

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

The one thing that I stress to my students is having a course of action thought out if something goes wrong and to think of the possible scenarios before they happen.On your out lap with a student its a really good idea to discuss where the runoffs are and to remember about them and not to panic if you need them.This has saved my ass more than once.When going to a new track it should be part of the familiarization to acquaint (not by using them)yourself with the escape areas .

+1. Exactly! Need to always know your options.

But the cars stopping/slowing to see what happened are very wrong. Keep going! Don't create a road block.