Q: Clear-Bra Installtion/Maintenance

WKBRDR · 11-13-2008, 08:16 PM

Yeah, the installers and company were great. I just wish the product would have held up. I would use the installers again if I ever need to.

ColoCane · 01-13-2009, 11:36 AM

So what's the preference VentureShield or ClearShield (or other)?

Do I have this right, VentureShield, good; heat gun repair, easy fix. ClearShield, good; clear coat, maintains look?

Thanks for the expertise...

Also, will be looking for a good installer in Denver.

Innovative Detailing · 01-13-2009, 10:18 PM

Here is some Invisible Bra info I thought I would pass on to the forum...I found this info in one of my autobody, car care trade magazines.

3M Scotchgard Paint Protection Film

The Good

Its good points are undeniable. The brand name of a juggernaut, huge R&D budget and more years in the business of gluing things to other things than anyone has made them the top dog in PPF. The film is tough, the top coat is the toughest by far, and you can even wet sand and buff it, but don’t try that with any of the others, unless you feel like putting a brand-new sheet of film on. The 3M PPF resists growth of fungus and algae, yes it is true, oogies can grow inside your film. 3M’s point of purchase materials are good, probably the best available and if you have a good distributor, they may throw in the promo stuff if you order enough film. Now for the bad news.

The Bad

I will set aside my ego for a second to say that 3M Paint Protection Film is all but impossible to put on flawlessly. I have installed almost all the films on the market over the course of nearly a decade and it’s no exaggeration. One false move and you get a permanent flaw. It seems that its greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Yes, the very thing that makes the topcoat so easy to repair and so durable, also makes it easy to crease, stress and mark with your squeegee. Unfortunately, many of these types of flaws are not repairable. It does yellow on white cars, but then, all PPF does to some extent.

Conclusion; 3M Scotchgard Paint Protection Film is good for long-term use, it does its job well on vehicles that will see a lot of miles and for the customer who can accept some stretch marks and wrinkles here and there in exchange for durability, reparability and a brand name that they can trust.

Venture Shield Ultra

A lesser-known film, but growing in popularity so quickly that it was snatched up by the company mentioned above. Although 3M says that their acquisition of Venture Tape was not related to the PPF market, it is pretty hard to believe that it was not a factor. The fact is that Venture Shield Ultra was starting to grab PPF market share hand over fist, so draw your own conclusion.

The Good

It is remarkably easy to install. I mean the stuff looks really good right off the bat. It is less expensive than 3M, Xpel or Avery film, so if you are an entry-level installer just striking out into the world of PPF, Venture Shield Ultra could be the film for you.

The Bad

Again, its strength is its weakness. Since a soft top-coat equals good looking initial install, it also means no reparability. This is bad for longevity, and bad for installation, if you mar the finish of the topcoat during install it can be tough, if not impossible to fix.

The rolls of film come with this annoying sheet of Mylar on top of the film, put there presumably to protect the film from itself while in storage and transit, maybe to prevent growth on the roll, I don’t know. I have never asked anyone from Venture why it’s there but, holy cow it sucks! You can’t plot the kit with the Mylar on, or the film will not track right, so you have to take it off pre-cut. Well, this is not all that easy, it’s hard to get started peeling, then, once you have it going, you better hope that you’re nowhere near your plotter because there’s so much static electricity you will fry the electronics in nothing flat (you could probably cook a dog with the amount of static you get). In case you’re wondering, yes static electricity does attract lint and debris from the air, ground and clothes near-by.

Conclusion; the money you save on film and install time will be nothing compared to the time and money you loose fighting lint, fried electronics, and massive amounts of extra garbage, which, by the way, is what the film will be in 2 years with its wimpy top-coat.

Xpel Technologies Standard PPF

Amid rapid growth in the Paint Protection Film industries’ adolescence, springs a new kid on the block. For the past 13+ years, Xpel has established itself as one of the best producers of PPF patterns in the industry. At the 2007 SEMA show they stunned the PPF world by introducing their own Paint Protection Film. Amid rumors of stealing technology and simply taking someone else’s film and re-branding it, they bravely threw themselves into the fray.

Some would cower in fear of uber-massive corporations like 3M, but not Xpel. In reality, history is on their side. Remember that 3M invented window tint film, now 20 years later they fight tooth-and-nail to retain a respectable market share. No, in reality, it is inevitable that, as the industry gains popularity among the public, more competition will enter the marketplace with billions to gain. Smaller companies can move more nimbly to adjust to market, consumer and re-seller needs. This is where a company like Xpel has the advantage. Like Llumar and Madico did with window film, Xpel is determined to show the world that there is another, better alternative for PPF.

From what I have seen of the film, it is good. It goes on with relative ease, the initial look is clean, and surface marring can be addressed, though not as easily as 3Ms can, it does not have an annoying Mylar transit coat and it tracks well on the plotter. It has an anti-fungal like 3M. Fingers lay with ease, although they do tend to want to pop up later, so be careful of that. Overall I think that it is a nearly perfect balance between the Scotchgard and Venture Shield Paint Protection Films. With a 7-year warranty and an aggressive marketing campaign, they should build market share with speed. Time will tell how well the film holds up to real world application, but at this rate it won’t be long before they have a giant looking over its shoulder.

Hope this helps...

Dave @ Innovative Detailing

www.innovativedetailing.com

lincoln · 01-13-2009, 11:03 PM

Awesome write up Dave.

ColoCane · 01-15-2009, 10:20 AM

Dave... thank you! Great debrief.

Appreciate it. If I was in OC, I'd be heading your way.

So which product do you use?

It was interesting what you said about VentureShield and repair work. It was said earlier that a heat gun provided an easy fix (an advantage of VentureShield), but that's not the case?

Thanks again for the feedback. Very helpful.

Innovative Detailing · 01-19-2009, 08:04 PM

Thanks I appreciate that, we most commonly use either Venture or Avery/Dennison...This last Friday and Saturday we installed "Invisible Bra" on a BMW 335i sedan, Audi S5, Audi A4 and a Ferrari F360 Spyder. On all these applications we used Venture and they came out awesome. For more photos check out my website gallery under Invisible Bra........

Dave @ Innovative Detailing

BimmerRob08 · 01-22-2009, 05:16 PM

The clear bra I have on my M3 installed here in the UK is the "XPEL" mentioned above in Dave's post. I read on the paintshield web page that this product was developed in the States and originally designed for Helicopter rotor blades leading edges to protect them from sand/dust abrastions and errostion. Don't know how true that is but I've had my
M3 almost 100% covered since new for about 9 months now and honistly I can't see any discoloration, yellowing or pealing. My M3 is Space Gray and still looks fine. But my M3 is not in a hot environment(UK = cold, wet) weather. It's normally garaged through out the week so I can't say if the hot southwest desert or high temp environment will have any negative effects. I sure hope not but so far so good.

inmotion · 01-23-2009, 10:49 AM

Just bought another car and will be having Premier put it on my car next week. Do it if you like how your car looks now.

BimmerRob08 · 01-25-2009, 06:40 AM

Inmotion,

I'd sure like to see a pic line up of your garage. Sounds impressive.

johnnyutah0921 · 01-27-2009, 03:18 AM

I Used Elite Clear Bra they do great work the best that I've seen. I've had all my cars done by them over the past 6 or 7 years. They've always given me the best customer service and stand behind their work. You'll need to call 714-580-2576 and ask for Craig he's the owner and let him know you heard about him from this forum and he'll hook you up with a Standard Kit whick is the Hood, Fenders, Mirrors, and Bumper and they'll even throw in the Lights for $450 Installed. They do great work. Their website is www.eliteclearbra.com Or you can Email them at eliteclearbra@gmail.com

htp autoworks · 02-01-2009, 05:57 PM

Just one more thing to add to this thread... not even going to address all of the mis-information on the first two pages. 3M has the absolute worst orange peel of any film out there. I will not install it just for that reason. it als has a very agressive adhesive that has been known to lift paint once it has really set and cured. The acrylic top coat they use is not such a good idea since acrylic will not stretch. That means the top coat could crack if the film is stretched to much during the installation.

Innovative added some great info above... I just wanted to add to it frm my 5 plus years of experience. I think Venture top coat or ClearMask AR (3M industial grade film) is really the way to go and wouldnt put anything else on my personal vehicles.

frankzlin79 · 09-16-2009, 03:58 PM

I have Xpel film on a AW M3. It's been less than a year and the film has turned noticeably darker (not yellow, but darker). I took it to the installer today and he agreed that Xpel is no good. It's a new company and my car was the first white car he installed Xpel film on. Thankfully, he's a good guy, and is going to be re-doing the entire car with ClearShield for free next week. He said that ClearShield does not change colors, but is more difficult to install, because it rips easier when installing. But he said that once the ClearShield is installed properly, there won't be any tearing.

And btw manufactuer of ClearShield is a company called Solar Guard. So I'm getting Solar Guard ClearShield.

htp autoworks · 09-16-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankzlin79

I have Xpel film on a AW M3. It's been less than a year and the film has turned noticeably darker (not yellow, but darker). I took it to the installer today and he agreed that Xpel is no good. It's a new company and my car was the first white car he installed Xpel film on. Thankfully, he's a good guy, and is going to be re-doing the entire car with ClearShield for free next week. He said that ClearShield does not change colors, but is more difficult to install, because it rips easier when installing. But he said that once the ClearShield is installed properly, there won't be any tearing.

And btw manufactuer of ClearShield is a company called Solar Guard. So I'm getting Solar Guard ClearShield.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but ClearShield is Baekert. That is not a good film... I have never heard anything good about it. And to say "it rips easily during installation" should be a big concern for you. You should not be able to tear film period. Thats the first time I have ever heard anyone say that before... and I am shocked to hear that coming from an installer. I have been installing film a long time and I can tell you that it sounds to me that you need to find another installer. Get your money back from Xpel and find a better installer with a good quality film... i.e. Clearmask AR or VentureShield Ultra. Anything less and you iwll be back down there in another year dealing with the same mess. P.M. me if you need some help.

frankzlin79 · 09-16-2009, 09:01 PM

Several other members on the board have ClearShield, with no problems. ClearShield is the only film that my installer uses on white cars now, because it will not yellow over time. He does not ordinarily like to use ClearShield because its tensil strength is not as strong as other films. However, since he's doing the install and not me, I don't really care how many times he messes up (rips the film) and has to start over. Once it's on the car, it should not move (there is no more bending or stretching of the film), so it should be okay.

I'm not going to another installer because I do not want to pay for installation again when I'm getting my ClearShield done completely for free. Technically, because I'm under an Xpel warranty, I should be receiving Xpel again. But my installer, being nice, agreed that I can (and should) go with a different brand, which will give me a new warranty by Solar Guard. I don't know who Baekert is, but the installer definitely said that ClearShield (at least the type he carries) is made by Solar Guard.

http://solargard.com/Auto/Clearshield

11-13-2008, 08:16 PM	#45
WKBRDR Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 201 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: AZ iTrader: (1)	Yeah, the installers and company were great. I just wish the product would have held up. I would use the installers again if I ever need to. __________________ AW Coupe/Black Novillo/Carbon Fiber Trim/MDCT/19s/Tech/Premium/Heated Seats/IPOD/SAT -20% Tint/GP Thunder 8500k Bulbs/BMW Performance Pedals/AFE Air Filter/Eisenmann Race
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01-13-2009, 11:36 AM	#46
ColoCane Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 280 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Denver, CO iTrader: (0)	So what's the preference VentureShield or ClearShield (or other)? Do I have this right, VentureShield, good; heat gun repair, easy fix. ClearShield, good; clear coat, maintains look? Thanks for the expertise... Also, will be looking for a good installer in Denver.
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01-13-2009, 10:18 PM	#47
Innovative Detailing Second Lieutenant 17 Rep 236 Posts Drives: 08 M3, 06 Denali, 53Ford F100 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Orange County iTrader: (0)	Here is some Invisible Bra info I thought I would pass on to the forum...I found this info in one of my autobody, car care trade magazines. 3M Scotchgard Paint Protection Film The Good Its good points are undeniable. The brand name of a juggernaut, huge R&D budget and more years in the business of gluing things to other things than anyone has made them the top dog in PPF. The film is tough, the top coat is the toughest by far, and you can even wet sand and buff it, but don’t try that with any of the others, unless you feel like putting a brand-new sheet of film on. The 3M PPF resists growth of fungus and algae, yes it is true, oogies can grow inside your film. 3M’s point of purchase materials are good, probably the best available and if you have a good distributor, they may throw in the promo stuff if you order enough film. Now for the bad news. The Bad I will set aside my ego for a second to say that 3M Paint Protection Film is all but impossible to put on flawlessly. I have installed almost all the films on the market over the course of nearly a decade and it’s no exaggeration. One false move and you get a permanent flaw. It seems that its greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Yes, the very thing that makes the topcoat so easy to repair and so durable, also makes it easy to crease, stress and mark with your squeegee. Unfortunately, many of these types of flaws are not repairable. It does yellow on white cars, but then, all PPF does to some extent. Conclusion; 3M Scotchgard Paint Protection Film is good for long-term use, it does its job well on vehicles that will see a lot of miles and for the customer who can accept some stretch marks and wrinkles here and there in exchange for durability, reparability and a brand name that they can trust. Venture Shield Ultra A lesser-known film, but growing in popularity so quickly that it was snatched up by the company mentioned above. Although 3M says that their acquisition of Venture Tape was not related to the PPF market, it is pretty hard to believe that it was not a factor. The fact is that Venture Shield Ultra was starting to grab PPF market share hand over fist, so draw your own conclusion. The Good It is remarkably easy to install. I mean the stuff looks really good right off the bat. It is less expensive than 3M, Xpel or Avery film, so if you are an entry-level installer just striking out into the world of PPF, Venture Shield Ultra could be the film for you. The Bad Again, its strength is its weakness. Since a soft top-coat equals good looking initial install, it also means no reparability. This is bad for longevity, and bad for installation, if you mar the finish of the topcoat during install it can be tough, if not impossible to fix. The rolls of film come with this annoying sheet of Mylar on top of the film, put there presumably to protect the film from itself while in storage and transit, maybe to prevent growth on the roll, I don’t know. I have never asked anyone from Venture why it’s there but, holy cow it sucks! You can’t plot the kit with the Mylar on, or the film will not track right, so you have to take it off pre-cut. Well, this is not all that easy, it’s hard to get started peeling, then, once you have it going, you better hope that you’re nowhere near your plotter because there’s so much static electricity you will fry the electronics in nothing flat (you could probably cook a dog with the amount of static you get). In case you’re wondering, yes static electricity does attract lint and debris from the air, ground and clothes near-by. Conclusion; the money you save on film and install time will be nothing compared to the time and money you loose fighting lint, fried electronics, and massive amounts of extra garbage, which, by the way, is what the film will be in 2 years with its wimpy top-coat. Xpel Technologies Standard PPF Amid rapid growth in the Paint Protection Film industries’ adolescence, springs a new kid on the block. For the past 13+ years, Xpel has established itself as one of the best producers of PPF patterns in the industry. At the 2007 SEMA show they stunned the PPF world by introducing their own Paint Protection Film. Amid rumors of stealing technology and simply taking someone else’s film and re-branding it, they bravely threw themselves into the fray. Some would cower in fear of uber-massive corporations like 3M, but not Xpel. In reality, history is on their side. Remember that 3M invented window tint film, now 20 years later they fight tooth-and-nail to retain a respectable market share. No, in reality, it is inevitable that, as the industry gains popularity among the public, more competition will enter the marketplace with billions to gain. Smaller companies can move more nimbly to adjust to market, consumer and re-seller needs. This is where a company like Xpel has the advantage. Like Llumar and Madico did with window film, Xpel is determined to show the world that there is another, better alternative for PPF. From what I have seen of the film, it is good. It goes on with relative ease, the initial look is clean, and surface marring can be addressed, though not as easily as 3Ms can, it does not have an annoying Mylar transit coat and it tracks well on the plotter. It has an anti-fungal like 3M. Fingers lay with ease, although they do tend to want to pop up later, so be careful of that. Overall I think that it is a nearly perfect balance between the Scotchgard and Venture Shield Paint Protection Films. With a 7-year warranty and an aggressive marketing campaign, they should build market share with speed. Time will tell how well the film holds up to real world application, but at this rate it won’t be long before they have a giant looking over its shoulder. Hope this helps... Dave @ Innovative Detailing www.innovativedetailing.com
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01-13-2009, 11:03 PM	#48
lincoln Lieutenant 19 Rep 432 Posts Drives: 2009 Melbourne Red Coupe - DCT Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Seattle (Puyallup) iTrader: (0)	Awesome write up Dave. __________________ 2009 Melbourne Red DCT \| Black Interior \| Carbon Fiber Trim \| Carbon Fiber Roof \| Cold Weather \| Premium \| Technology \| 19's \| Smartphone Integration \| iPod \|
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01-15-2009, 10:20 AM	#49
ColoCane Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 280 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Denver, CO iTrader: (0)	Innovative Detailing Dave... thank you! Great debrief. Appreciate it. If I was in OC, I'd be heading your way. So which product do you use? It was interesting what you said about VentureShield and repair work. It was said earlier that a heat gun provided an easy fix (an advantage of VentureShield), but that's not the case? Thanks again for the feedback. Very helpful.
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01-19-2009, 08:04 PM	#50
Innovative Detailing Second Lieutenant 17 Rep 236 Posts Drives: 08 M3, 06 Denali, 53Ford F100 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Orange County iTrader: (0)	Thanks I appreciate that, we most commonly use either Venture or Avery/Dennison...This last Friday and Saturday we installed "Invisible Bra" on a BMW 335i sedan, Audi S5, Audi A4 and a Ferrari F360 Spyder. On all these applications we used Venture and they came out awesome. For more photos check out my website gallery under Invisible Bra........ Dave @ Innovative Detailing
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01-22-2009, 05:16 PM	#51
BimmerRob08 Major 110 Rep 1,311 Posts Drives: 2008 M3, Space Gray Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: KIKR (ABQ), NM iTrader: (0)	The clear bra I have on my M3 installed here in the UK is the "XPEL" mentioned above in Dave's post. I read on the paintshield web page that this product was developed in the States and originally designed for Helicopter rotor blades leading edges to protect them from sand/dust abrastions and errostion. Don't know how true that is but I've had my M3 almost 100% covered since new for about 9 months now and honistly I can't see any discoloration, yellowing or pealing. My M3 is Space Gray and still looks fine. But my M3 is not in a hot environment(UK = cold, wet) weather. It's normally garaged through out the week so I can't say if the hot southwest desert or high temp environment will have any negative effects. I sure hope not but so far so good. Last edited by BimmerRob08; 01-22-2009 at 10:49 PM..
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01-23-2009, 10:49 AM	#52
inmotion Lieutenant 10 Rep 528 Posts Drives: where do I start? Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Newport Coast, CA iTrader: (0)	Just bought another car and will be having Premier put it on my car next week. Do it if you like how your car looks now. __________________ E60 M5 Silverstone, Balloon White Gallardo Spider, Rosso Corsa F430, Audi CG Q7 Sportline, IS R8 before and DG R8 now, Basalt Black Carrera GT, SG M3 DCT, Orange GT3RS, IS CLK63 Black Series On order: 2010 R8 V10
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01-25-2009, 06:40 AM	#53
BimmerRob08 Major 110 Rep 1,311 Posts Drives: 2008 M3, Space Gray Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: KIKR (ABQ), NM iTrader: (0)	Inmotion, I'd sure like to see a pic line up of your garage. Sounds impressive.
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01-27-2009, 03:18 AM	#54
johnnyutah0921 New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Huntington Beach iTrader: (0)	Elite Clear Bra I Used Elite Clear Bra they do great work the best that I've seen. I've had all my cars done by them over the past 6 or 7 years. They've always given me the best customer service and stand behind their work. You'll need to call 714-580-2576 and ask for Craig he's the owner and let him know you heard about him from this forum and he'll hook you up with a Standard Kit whick is the Hood, Fenders, Mirrors, and Bumper and they'll even throw in the Lights for $450 Installed. They do great work. Their website is www.eliteclearbra.com Or you can Email them at eliteclearbra@gmail.com
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02-01-2009, 05:57 PM	#55
htp autoworks Private 2 Rep 58 Posts Drives: A fast one... Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Worth iTrader: (0)	Just one more thing to add to this thread... not even going to address all of the mis-information on the first two pages. 3M has the absolute worst orange peel of any film out there. I will not install it just for that reason. it als has a very agressive adhesive that has been known to lift paint once it has really set and cured. The acrylic top coat they use is not such a good idea since acrylic will not stretch. That means the top coat could crack if the film is stretched to much during the installation. Innovative added some great info above... I just wanted to add to it frm my 5 plus years of experience. I think Venture top coat or ClearMask AR (3M industial grade film) is really the way to go and wouldnt put anything else on my personal vehicles.
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09-16-2009, 03:58 PM	#56
frankzlin79 Lieutenant Colonel 265 Rep 1,696 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Houston, Texas iTrader: (5)	I have Xpel film on a AW M3. It's been less than a year and the film has turned noticeably darker (not yellow, but darker). I took it to the installer today and he agreed that Xpel is no good. It's a new company and my car was the first white car he installed Xpel film on. Thankfully, he's a good guy, and is going to be re-doing the entire car with ClearShield for free next week. He said that ClearShield does not change colors, but is more difficult to install, because it rips easier when installing. But he said that once the ClearShield is installed properly, there won't be any tearing. And btw manufactuer of ClearShield is a company called Solar Guard. So I'm getting Solar Guard ClearShield.
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09-16-2009, 09:01 PM	#58
frankzlin79 Lieutenant Colonel 265 Rep 1,696 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Houston, Texas iTrader: (5)	Several other members on the board have ClearShield, with no problems. ClearShield is the only film that my installer uses on white cars now, because it will not yellow over time. He does not ordinarily like to use ClearShield because its tensil strength is not as strong as other films. However, since he's doing the install and not me, I don't really care how many times he messes up (rips the film) and has to start over. Once it's on the car, it should not move (there is no more bending or stretching of the film), so it should be okay. I'm not going to another installer because I do not want to pay for installation again when I'm getting my ClearShield done completely for free. Technically, because I'm under an Xpel warranty, I should be receiving Xpel again. But my installer, being nice, agreed that I can (and should) go with a different brand, which will give me a new warranty by Solar Guard. I don't know who Baekert is, but the installer definitely said that ClearShield (at least the type he carries) is made by Solar Guard. http://solargard.com/Auto/Clearshield
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