Going from N54 to S65?

[mweisdorfer]

Hello,

I am "thinking" about moving to the e90 M3 from a 335i with the n54 Motor. I DIY almost everything on my car now. I have owned it for 10 years.

From early and limited research, I can see the two main DIYs would be the throttle actuators and rod bearings. I have seen a video and read a couple DIY's on both. I would equate the amount of work for the Rod bearing to be equal to changing out the turbos on an N54.

If you get the better (upgraded) rod bearings like the ones in the link below, does this fix the issue for someone who just DD's the car? No tracking involved. In other words, you do the DIY wit the better rod bearings and your are good to go, as long as you don't abuse the car and take care of it.

The actuators don't bother me too much. I guess you just pay one of two vendors for brand new ones or the upgraded remanufactured ones here in Detroit, both of which have a lifetime warranty.

I see maintenance schedules have you changing all the fluids out at twice the rate of an N54.

Do you think this car car be driven in the winter, if you had a really good set of snow tires, or should one just garage it and just start it up and run in for 30 min once a week?

What other pitfalls does this car have?

I guess, if you were in my shoes, what would you really want to know before making the decision to jump into an e90 M3.

[FuzzyPeaches]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Hello,

I am "thinking" about moving to the e90 M3 from a 335i with the n54 Motor. I DIY almost everything on my car now. I have owned it for 10 years.

From early and limited research, I can see the two main DIYs would be the throttle actuators and rod bearings. I have seen a video and read a couple DIY's on both. I would equate the amount of work for the Rod bearing to be equal to changing out the turbos on an N54.

If you get the better (upgraded) rod bearings like the ones in the link below, does this fix the issue for someone who just DD's the car? No tracking involved. In other words, you do the DIY wit the better rod bearings and your are good to go, as long as you don't abuse the car and take care of it.

The actuators don't bother me too much. I guess you just pay one of two vendors for brand new ones or the upgraded remanufactured ones here in Detroit, both of which have a lifetime warranty.

I see maintenance schedules have you changing all the fluids out at twice the rate of an N54.

Do you think this car car be driven in the winter, if you had a really good set of snow tires, or should one just garage it and just start it up and run in for 30 min once a week?

What other pitfalls does this car have?

I guess, if you were in my shoes, what would you really want to know before making the decision to jump into an e90 M3.

Not trying to be a dick, but I think the answer to this question lies here...
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1418410

[m3jala]

To the winter question, I put pirelli sottozerro II tires on in the winter and they grip great while still keeping some sense of performance feel for where I am (DC metro). Obviously if you get more than 6 inches your car becomes a sled but I figure you have the same issue with your 335. I have access to my wife's SUV for the tough snow days.

The thread poster 2 put above is a great thread.

Send us some pics when you decide to join the club!

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by m3jala

To the winter question, I put pirelli sottozerro II tires on in the winter and they grip great while still keeping some sense of performance feel for where I am (DC metro). Obviously if you get more than 6 inches your car becomes a sled but I figure you have the same issue with your 335. I have access to my wife's SUV for the tough snow days.

The thread poster 2 put above is a great thread.

Send us some pics when you decide to join the club!

Warranty ? after mkt? What's the best one going ?

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Hello,

I am "thinking" about moving to the e90 M3 from a 335i with the n54 Motor. .

If you want to drive one and see the dynamic characteristics for yourself, let me know and we can set something up. I'm right down in Troy.

My quick thoughts, the 335i is a fun car with plenty power, but the M3 is just an animal.

[PACarGuy]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Warranty ? after mkt? What's the best one going ?

If you can get access to USAA (Assurant), that's certainly a good option. There is a thread on this topic as well in the General forum, I believe.

[m3jala]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Warranty ? after mkt? What's the best one going ?

Sorry don't understand the question. You are asking about warranty on the car or the tires?

[pbonsalb]

I live in NH and have been driving my 08 E90 M3 in winter since I got it 8 years ago. I changed the rod bearings myself in 2014 when my extended warranty expired. I have also had an N54 car for the same 8 years, a 535xi, that I also maintain and drive year round. Both get snow wheels in winter. Certainly the AWD car does better in snow. It also has a little more ground clearance.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I live in NH and have been driving my 08 E90 M3 in winter since I got it 8 years ago. I changed the rod bearings myself in 2014 when my extended warranty expired. I have also had an N54 car for the same 8 years, a 535xi, that I also maintain and drive year round. Both get snow wheels in winter. Certainly the AWD car does better in snow. It also has a little more ground clearance.

Which is more expensive to maintain during that time period? Did you put the better rod bearings on like these below ?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/e/p...d-bearing-set/

[anerbe]

I'm in the Detroit area, and with winters, car handles beautiful. Just ensure you keep some momentum on the inclines and you're fine.

[BimmerMan33]

M3 would drive better in moderate snow with winter tires compared to 335i with similar tires, because of linear power delivery. Have used E90 M3 with Blizzaks in Midwest winters, mostly did better that my F10. 535iXdrive with all season tires.

Have owned 335is, more fun than M3 in city driving with traffic. M3 needs to be revved out in 2nd & 3rd gear to be fun. Powerful enough but no torque rush feeling in the M3

335i/is seems like running out of steam around 5500 rpm, sweet spot is 2000 to 5000 rpm. M3 wakes up around 3500 rpm, fun at 4500 to redline.

Manual trans fluid, diff fluid are the ones that need changed more frequently in the M3 compared to 335, rest is similar/usage based. I'd say M3 parts are more expensive, eg. brake rotors on M3 are costly.

M3 driven spiritedly, 17 mpg. 335is spiritedly driven 19 to 20 mpg.

Agree with changing rod bearings preventatively on M3.
Consider using lighter oil in the winter on M3 since OEM 10w60 is thick on cold starts, but opinions widely vary on this, so do your research.

The above are based on personal opinion/experience. Opinions differ as experiences differ.

[amrazM]

It doesn’t have any Torque, you cannot pass on the highway without the car dropping 3 gears.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

Which is more expensive to maintain during that time period? Did you put the better rod bearings on like these below ?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/e/p...d-bearing-set/

Back then the aftermarket bearings were not available so I used stock with wpc treatment. I will probably use BE or ACL next time. The M3 has been more to maintain. Brakes are $1100, actuators $1200, bearings $800, but nothing else significant and the 535 may balance that out a bit when I do the turbos. 92k on M3 and 132k on 535.

[Soden82]

Originally Posted by amrazM

It doesn’t have any Torque, you cannot pass on the highway without the car dropping 3 gears.

The fun part in an M3 is dropping those three gears and mashing the throttle

[PACarGuy]

Originally Posted by BimmerMan33

M3 driven spiritedly, 17 mpg.

Man...I so wish this were true. Driven with only occasional gusto, mine gets 13-14 mpg driving around town. I guess if I had more highway thrown in I might get 16, but 17...that's pretty impressive for this car.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Back then the aftermarket bearings were not available so I used stock with wpc treatment. I will probably use BE or ACL next time. The M3 has been more to maintain. Brakes are $1100, actuators $1200, bearings $800, but nothing else significant and the 535 may balance that out a bit when I do the turbos. 92k on M3 and 132k on 535.

I think part of the challenge with the 335i is the 6 seals

1) front main
2) rear main
3) OFHG
4) Megatronic Seal
5) VC
6) Oil Pan

The other three big $$ parts are the

1) Water pump - $425
2) injectors - $1000 to 1500
3) turbos - $1500 to 2000.00

I can do all of the above as a DIY.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have not read thus far any issues with the above on the S65.

Only real main issues are the throttle actuators & the RB's

I have seen how one can rebuild the throttle actuators with better gears.... does this help? I have also seen a company here is Detroit Area that sells rebuilt ones and claims they are better that VDO.

The bearings about $600 plus the bolts which are another $300.00, if you want the better bolts.

I would equate a RB DIY to the difficulty level of a oil pan/ maybe turbo DIY on a 335 ? Correct ?

Yep, I have seen cross drilled rotors to be very expensive (about 2.25x the amount of the same type I use on my 335i). Pads don't seem too bad.

For me 30,000 miles is about 2 years. So, it looks like every other year, I'd be doing a fluid swap of some sort on a majority of the car. That could be expensive.

[drrust]

Replacing the gears after a code is thrown has not been consistent. If one replaces them before codes are thrown you may get additional life out of the unit but they will fail eventually. I had replaced my gears at ~100K miles. Got about 2.5 years (35K miles) out of one of them prior to having a code thrown. The North American shop that rebuilds them is in Warren. Price is around 350 each.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by drrust

Replacing the gears after a code is thrown has not been consistent. If one replaces them before codes are thrown you may get additional life out of the unit but they will fail eventually. I had replaced my gears at ~100K miles. Got about 2.5 years (35K miles) out of one of them prior to having a code thrown. The North American shop that rebuilds them is in Warren. Price is around 350 each.

The ones out of Warren, MI have a lifetime warranty. Do you think they are better and subsequently last longer than a stock VDO?

[drrust]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

The ones out of Warren, MI have a lifetime warranty. Do you think they are better and subsequently last longer than a stock VDO?

You can track down the various threads on the units. I had a spare, so I am getting rebuilt ones in the near future. Alternatively one could buy from FCP Euro and also have a lifetime replacement, but there is a cost difference. Abdul may be using components that are rated for a higher temperature. (At least he has commented on the components that tend to fail.)

[pbonsalb]

On the 535, I did the coils, plugs, valve cover gasket, oil cooler gasket, oil filter housing gasket, de-gooed and de-carboned intake ports, mechatronics seal and pan and fluid, cleaned vanos solenoids, belts and pulleys and tensioner, tightened wastegates, changed thermostat (pump was changed under warranty in 2014 at 75k), changed all fluids, replaced rotors and pads, and replaced some suspension arms. Have not yet done turbos or front and rear crank seals.

If you can do that sort of stuff you can do RB on the M3. It’s more care than skill. There is a great DIY that SYT_Shadow did for the rod bearings. If you can do the labor there is no reason to be scared of the M3. A very few cars have suffered main bearing failure, but it’s an engine out and engine apart job so beyond preventative maintenance.

[blu3wolf]

I've owned a 335i and currently have m3. 335i was a slightly better city car just due to the torque. Other than that just the gas mileage. Everything else including reliability (knock on wood) the M3 has been better. The n54 (and a couple of other bmw turbo engines) imo are way too fragile. My N54, which was very well maintained and a later model, still required most of what you listed including the more expensive items. It was more of a headache to be honest especially for a car that was not abused and was maintained well.

The s65 ive done the bearings just as a preventive measure. TA's ill do the rebuilt ones out of warren MI when it comes time, not really worried about that. Other than that its just been routine things such as fluids, tires, alignments etc. same as every other car on the road. Yes regular wear and tear items and oil changes are a just a little pricier.... but finding sales on parts, getting non BMW branded parts and DIYing on your own you wont notice id say!

[Chris_08_M3]

The AC evaporator is another issue....not sure if the 335 has the same issue. Apparently it is very labour intensive to replace due to having to remove the entire dashboard and other things.

I just replaced my actuators with the ones from MPowerMotorsports and so far they work great. If they have truly upgraded to components to outlast the car then this issues is done for good....plus they offer a lifetime warranty.