Harrop Owners Chime In!

[RUG8RB8]

Smoke test completed, zero leaks found. Also used SnapOn bore scope to verify BOV is fully open and closed and it is each time. Still will not build more than 4psi. Two different boost gauges used old fashion with 1/4" hose and digital.

[IMG]https://youtube.com/shorts/9CR5vKSguYs?feature=share[/IMG]

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by RUG8RB8

Smoke test completed, zero leaks found. Also used SnapOn bore scope to verify BOV is fully open and closed and it is each time. Still will not build more than 4psi. Two different boost gauges used old fashion with 1/4" hose and digital.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9CR5vKSguYs

Is the Dinan Power Pulley a different diameter to the OEM crank pulley? Since the crank pulley "drives" the blower serpentine belt? If it is a different diameter the blower might be turning at a slower speed than its design speed?
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9CR5vKSguYs

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Is the Dinan Power Pulley a different diameter to the OEM crank pulley? Since the crank pulley "drives" the blower serpentine belt? If it is a different diameter the blower might be turning at a slower speed than its design speed?

This is an excellent point, aren't under drive pulleys a smaller diameter?

[1SloeEm3]

Originally Posted by RUG8RB8

Smoke test completed, zero leaks found. Also used SnapOn bore scope to verify BOV is fully open and closed and it is each time. Still will not build more than 4psi. Two different boost gauges used old fashion with 1/4" hose and digital.

[IMG]https://youtube.com/shorts/9CR5vKSguYs?feature=share[/IMG]

Please tell me you took off that underdrive pulley before installing the supercharger. If you didn’t that’s your problem.Either throw the Oem on or run a smaller pulley on the blower.

[nycplumber]

100% underdrive pulley if its still on there. You effectively went stage 0.75 by leaving it one there. Not for nothing but that's a huge oversight by your installer if they were aware of it. If that is the case I hope you didn't pay for there diagnosis

[tbuck]

Wow, yeah power pulley will do that, slowing the SC down along with everything else. Mike and I talked about that when I got mine as I was talking of replacing pulleys (idlers in my case) and he wanted to be sure I was not using a power pulley.

[DrFerry]

Below Is A List Of The Things That Have Been Tried To Remedy The Low Boost So Far - As Well As Other Information

These remedy attempts were shared with me by RUG8RB8

- A mechanical boost gauge pegs at 4psi during road test at WOT.
- Recalibration of the Bypass Valve Actuator using the unplug, ignition on, wait 20s, replug method.
- Verified the Bypass Valve is fully closed at WOT by Bore Scope.
- New Bypass Valve Actuator ECU supplied by Mike B' and installed by Shop.
- No binding or sticking of Actuator Rod observed.
- Smoke tested under pressure at plenum inlet with ITB in the closed position and Bypass Valve Actuator not at WOT. No smoke observed.
- Also tried to smoke test as above - with WOT and Bypass Valve closed - but ITBs then open so hard to pressurize. No smoke observed.
- No ITB boots folded by visual inspection.
- Compared the closed position of the actuator rod from a video on my car versus a video on RUG8RB8 car. Results were the same.
- Verified by hand that the Actuator rod is closed at WOT and can not extend any further.
- Shop is at sea level.
- Engaged Chris at Harrop USA in Ohio who called and spoke to the Shop Installer

To Do & Other Suggestions:

- Confirm the diameter of the existing drive belt crank pulley by measurement.
- Confirm if the serpentine drive belt might be slipping or the tensioner might be bad?
- Confirm by photo or video if the Dinan under-drive pulley has been removed?
- Are ITB boot clamps tight? Take care the clamps strip easily.
- Perform a smoke test at the plenum boost tap port (back left corner of the Harrop plenum)
- The current exhaust is Catless with a free flowing 'valved' back box. Try a different X-Pipe and/or Exhaust with higher back pressure (high flow Cats or about 200 cells per square inch). Boost maybe hard to build with insufficient back pressure. The Harrop E9X TVS1740 blower kit was developed using the Akrapovik 200CPSI secondary Cats system.

[BP709]

As others already mentioned…hope that Dinan pulley isn't on there. You need to run stock crank pulley as the Dinan one will spin the Harrop pulley slower.

[RUG8RB8]

Sorry, I don't know why this site does not send me a text or Email when there is a new post to a thread you are subscribed too. Maybe a setting tick mark I have missed. Getting old sucks.

Sorry for delay, but yes the first thing done was to remove Dinan power pulley and reinstall the factory OEM pulley. {Confirmed and diameter measured} If this issue turns out to be something simple, I will be shocked. I have 8 boosted cars and I am a ME, albeit this is my first S/C BMW. I still have my first car from highscool a 1986 300ZX turbo that I installed a standalone in and tuned myself in the 90's when it was pretty much unheard of, still puts 560 to the wheels but it is a scary ride so it sits in the garage now that I am and old guy. Sorry got off track, the S/C has been removed like four times now to check for any leaks or loose clamps, damaged seals etc.. Mark listed most of the items checked so far above, thank you DrFerry needless to say this process has been less that stress free.

Thank you for all the replies and suggestions.

[///Mobbin]

I wonder if there is a way to pressurize the system to 4+ psi at static and listen for leaks? Theory being maybe there is only a leak under pressure.

I'm sure you've considered already, just brainstorming for you, was really hoping it was the Dinan pulley.

[nycplumber]

How do you know its not building full boost? Does it feel slow? It might be a vacuum line leaking or pinched and so the guage only can build 4psi. Also smoke tests are about 1.5psi so if you are leaking at 4psi you likely wont see anything at 1.5psi

[RUG8RB8]

The system has been pressure tested to 8psi the best as possible, no leaks found. There is a debate about my belt choice now, but IMHO my choice is better than what they call for. I opted for the Continental 4060747 Poly-V Elite which is really a Goodyear Gatorback belt. It is 8mm or .30" smaller in ID and 3X better belt.

[nycplumber]

I think the belt talk is overrated. If your belt is slipping its due to misalignment or bad pulley. The 1740 on here spins at like half the speed the C6 Z06 does stock and they don't have any slip issues

[RUG8RB8]

Hello Gentlemen, been daily driving the car for a couple weeks now and it runs pretty good but have same issue with boost. I was curious if anybody with first hand knowledge can take a quick look at this EBV shutter actuation video and determine if I adjusted the linkage bolt a turn or so might this help the issue. I can't clearly tell from the bore scope video of the "Paddle Shutter" should go further CW or CCW to make he best seal during WOT.

https://youtube.com/shorts/ycl411Y1mvU?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/qLSFgc9DrRQ?feature=share

Also, I know everyone else is using he same EBV, but I am not seeing how this setup actually "Seals", I think I may have to pull this thing apart to really troubleshoot this issue. From what I can see, this type of setup would never work on a turbo charged car.

[RUG8RB8]

I think it is just about time for a positive post, early Merry Christmas for me! I removed the EBV controller last weekend, cleaned and lubricated everything, adjusted butterfly valve actuator linkage by one full turn “CCW”, reassembled, then installed P3 V3 custom multi-gauge, when values were questioned, added a second precision mechanical gauge in parallel. Here is the results:

Solid 6.5psi Boost

Here are some pictures too:

[RUG8RB8]

Wow, I guess this mobile App had a major update, it is so much easier to upload and attach media!

[DRLane]

Hmmm, are you sure it wasn’t just the crank pulley?

Kidding, that’s great to hear. Kudos for diving in on the actuator now it’s time to enjoy!

[RUG8RB8]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Hmmm, are you sure it wasn’t just the crank pulley?

Kidding, that’s great to hear. Kudos for diving in on the actuator now it’s time to enjoy!

Thank you Sir!!! Well, TBH the tune is still off, not terrible but not perfect either. I have this nagging breakup and now that I can monitor AFR’s, I can see they are too low, ie Rich (11.3-11.8) at WOT. Of course this is speculative, but I would prefer 12.0 to 12.2. Working with Mike to see what we can come up with. Once, everything is tweaked and working to a respectable level, I really want to go full E85, now that I have the flex fuel sensor installed. I am considering the AFD Kit in the near future. I am in Cali and the 91 premium here sucks balls. E85 is relatively plentiful in my area and downright cheap compared to 91. Mark shared a link here for me to read through about it. The actual kit is below:

AFD ProFlex E85 M3

[drwankel]

This is interesting- so it sounds like the root cause was the bypass was not fully closing?

How did you determine how much of an adjustment you had to make with the bypass linkage?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by drwankel

This is interesting- so it sounds like the root cause was the bypass was not fully closing?

How did you determine how much of an adjustment you had to make with the bypass linkage?

That is indeed a great question. I’ve been in touch with RUG8RB8 since I sold my Harrop blower to him and what a journey (saga) that turned out to be. Along the way I made a new friend too. Suffice to say it was about a two months long journey with hurricane Ian thrown into the mix.

It stared with FedEx losing the big Red Box. About five days later the big Red Box was located on a train between TX and L.A. Then the blue injectors were lost in shipping, but eventually located by RUG8RB8's flow bench vendor. Then I shipped my Harrop OBD II cable back to Mike B’ for his use with the new owner’s tune and somehow that got lost for a little while. Then there was the “it’s only making 4 psi boost” by the install shop followed by some forum head scratching about the Dinan under drive pulley as well as the “is the bypass valve closing properly” speculation.

A second Bypass Valve controller ECU was then tried without any supposed improvement. Then the focus shifted to the mechanical operation of the Bypass Valve closure as well as the condition of the Eaton Blower vanes. The install shop used a bore scope and confirmed the Bypass Valve was closing and functioning properly - as well as all being visually okay with the actual blower vanes themselves.

A few more weeks went by due to hurricane Ian and I encouraged RUG8RB8 to go pick up the car and drive it for a few weeks after he returned to CA from FL. Another part of the journey was RUG8RB8 taking the initiative to engage in a conference call with Eaton SC experts in AL, various conversations with Mike B’ and emails with Harrop, all of which I greatly encouraged. After all my prior Harrop blower had been previously working great for me - and had done so since late 2015 and 55K miles.

With the car now in RUG8RB8 hands, whom I might add is a mechanical engineer extraordinaire; he set about focusing on confirming the bypass valve closure seal. After removing the actuator from the plenum, some very minor play was found in the actuator rod linkage, eyebolt, and heim joints. Further video confirmation of bypass closure was made with another bore scope by RUG8RB8. Various videos and ideas were exchanged about what else to do (as well as many phone calls and texts over the last few months).

The actuator rod linkage and bypass valve were thoroughly cleaned and cycled by hand to determine “by feel” the point of highest closure and full sealing. After reassembly, the actuator rod was adjusted longer by one full turn.

Prior to test-driving, and in order to confirm boost readings, we recognized that two boost gauges should be used for verification. A P3 gauge was installed and calibrated, as well as a mechanical boost gauge accurate to 0.1 psi was purchased and installed. By this time it was December in SFO and the roads were wet.

On a damp December day, with traction control off, with the DCT in S4, 6.5psi was registered at WOT and simultaneously confirmed by the two gauges. Videos were shared and congratulations ensued. Throughout the whole journey I was involved as a consult as was Mike B’, Harrop AU and Harrop USA.

Now my remaining questions are: “was the SFO install shop’s mechanical boost gauge accurate when it initially recorded 4.0psi and kicked off the ensuing saga and expense chronicled above”?

PS: This chronicle is made for the learning of the community and others yet to come who may encounter a similar situation. Hallelujah. All is well that ends well.
.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FjzGqpZYybw

[RUG8RB8]

Thank you Mark!!! I am not much for writing or even posting, your over the top helpfulness has been invaluable! Thank you for all the support!

[1SloeEm3]

Originally Posted by RUG8RB8

Thank you Sir!!! Well, TBH the tune is still off, not terrible but not perfect either. I have this nagging breakup and now that I can monitor AFR’s, I can see they are too low, ie Rich (11.3-11.8) at WOT. Of course this is speculative, but I would prefer 12.0 to 12.2. Working with Mike to see what we can come up with. Once, everything is tweaked and working to a respectable level, I really want to go full E85, now that I have the flex fuel sensor installed. I am considering the AFD Kit in the near future. I am in Cali and the 91 premium here sucks balls. E85 is relatively plentiful in my area and downright cheap compared to 91. Mark shared a link here for me to read through about it. The actual kit is below:

AFD ProFlex E85 M3

What injectors are you planning to run on full e85? Your going to need minimum 600 cc injectors with a add on fuel pump depending on the boost you want to run. Would be sick to see what a Harrop kit is capable of putting down on full e85.