Rod Bearings, Liquimoly, and the Blackstone Oil Analysis.

GORDON.M3 · 06-07-2018, 08:04 PM

UPDATE: OCT 25, 2018.

Here is my recent report on a second oil analysis, as you can see Ceratec contains high levels of MOS2, even more than Molyslip. So from now on I will be using Ceratec instead for engine protection!

There has been quite the stir around the community that Liquimoly is no good for our S65 motors. Enough talk that it has scared people away from using it when it clearly says on the front label "Liquimoly recommends this oil for BMW M-series cars.". Some members have also mentioned that Liquimoly is too thick for our engines in the winter.

I daily drive my M3, I put a minimum of 20KM on it a day.
I drove the car all throughout the entire winter here in Toronto, even when the temperatures were as low as -35° degrees Celsius. On those days I let the car sit and warm for 5 mins before I reversed the car out of the driveway.
The car is not garaged parked and parked outside on the road.

Before the winter came I had my rod bearings serviced, I had replaced them with VAC Performance Coated Bearings that had extra clearance and came in a kit with ARP bolts. Prior to having the bearings changed my oil analysis report from Blackstone was looking pretty grim with 31ppm of copper showing. During this time I was using Castrol TWS 10w60.

Today I present to you evidence that Liquimoly 10w60 is fine for our cars, even though there might have been cases of "increased engine noise" when compared to using Castrol TWS. I personally don't think the thickness is an issue. This is the first oil analysis after the rod bearings were changed and Liquimoly 10w60 was used throughout the winter months leading into spring.

As you can see, the lead count is virtually gone and Blackstone suggests that the rest of the metals in the oil are looking fine.

I also want to add, I have used iquimoly Ceratec for break-in for the rod bearings and Molyslip between intervals to protect the engine.

I hope this information has helped some of the members here and clarifies any doubts the community may have about Liquimoly.

Mvy · 06-08-2018, 08:39 AM

Gordon,
There are many oil choices out there. I dont see this being any better or worse for the motor than Motol or Shell. However, I dont see how you could draw any connection between liquid moly/additives and your lead #s going down. If you replaced rod bearings, that explains in full why the lead is down, not the oil you chose. And BTW, there is no break in for rod bearings so not sure why adding ceratec would be necessary. Many of these additives may do no harm, but are probably a waste of money if you are just using a good oil and OCI. Blackstone reports are helpful when viewed over a span of time. Two snapshots are not all that useful other than to establish a baseline.

1DarkChaos · 06-08-2018, 12:22 PM

im huge fan of liquimoly. I used to use oem castrol and every 2000kmi.would need to put in a quart of oil. Everytime. Upon switching to liquimoly, i didnt lose a drop of oil . If is quite unbelievable if you ask me but that is exactly what happened. The engine do run 5 degrees hotter but definitely not a drop of oil burnt.

whats77inaname · 06-08-2018, 01:22 PM

I've been using Molyslip for years on my truck, that stuff really works wonders. I'm assuming you're only using about a 1/3 of a can at a time, correct?

jcolley · 06-08-2018, 03:22 PM

I see a lot of S65s and S85s that run LM and I'm always pleased when I open them. There's so much less oil varnish internally, even with higher OCIs. I do think however that the LM 10W-60 has a slightly higher specific heat capacity however (haven't really worked out a way in my head to test this yet) and notice it tends to run a little warmer than TWS did on some of these engines. Not really a concern IMO, but on the S85 cars I would prefer to use a larger oil cooler or I pull timing slightly at higher oil temps when tuning.

GerrS65 · 06-08-2018, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mvy

Gordon,
There are many oil choices out there. I dont see this being any better or worse for the motor than Motol or Shell. However, I dont see how you could draw any connection between liquid moly/additives and your lead #s going down. If you replaced rod bearings, that explains in full why the lead is down, not the oil you chose. And BTW, there is no break in for rod bearings so not sure why adding ceratec would be necessary. Many of these additives may do no harm, but are probably a waste of money if you are just using a good oil and OCI. Blackstone reports are helpful when viewed over a span of time. Two snapshots are not all that useful other than to establish a baseline.

Agreed. The info posted here really doesn't prove anything. Not to upset anyone, but this is far from helpful.

admranger · 06-09-2018, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerrS65

Agreed. The info posted here really doesn't prove anything. Not to upset anyone, but this is far from helpful.

The info is good as it is another data point to have in the collective. I don't care if someone runs unicorn juice and gatorade prior to their blackstone report. Report your findings.

CarPoor · 06-09-2018, 01:19 PM

While this one data point is of little value on it’s own it does support the opinion I came too last year when I went through my rod bearing/oil obsession. From all the UOAs posted here the Liqui Moly 10w60 showed overall the lowest “wear metal” numbers of all the oils tested. By overall I mean “wear metals” not just limited to bearing materials, though those too were of note. Doesn’t hurt that Liqui Moly has the best customer service either.

GORDON.M3 · 06-09-2018, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mvy

Gordon,
There are many oil choices out there. I dont see this being any better or worse for the motor than Motol or Shell. However, I dont see how you could draw any connection between liquid moly/additives and your lead #s going down. If you replaced rod bearings, that explains in full why the lead is down, not the oil you chose. And BTW, there is no break in for rod bearings so not sure why adding ceratec would be necessary. Many of these additives may do no harm, but are probably a waste of money if you are just using a good oil and OCI. Blackstone reports are helpful when viewed over a span of time. Two snapshots are not all that useful other than to establish a baseline.

I will continue to post my oil snapshots from Blackstone as each oil change interval goes by. My main reason for posting this was to provide the community with more data and information, it was not to argue if LM was better than Castrol, Motul, or Shell.

I respect your opinion that there is "no break-in period" but I've spoken to few other mechanics and they said its better to drive the car easy for the first 500 miles and flushing the oil after the rod bearing change to get rid of what was left from the assembly lube.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

I've been using Molyslip for years on my truck, that stuff really works wonders. I'm assuming you're only using about a 1/3 of a can at a time, correct?

I use about 450ML of it. Which is 1 can and a half. I've had 0 issues.

GerrS65 · 06-09-2018, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by admranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerrS65

Agreed. The info posted here really doesn't prove anything. Not to upset anyone, but this is far from helpful.

The info is good as it is another data point to have in the collective. I don't care if someone runs unicorn juice and gatorade prior to their blackstone report. Report your findings.

Good point.

dparm · 06-09-2018, 02:44 PM

Liqui-Moly is no better or worse than any other off-the-shelf oil. I know that the German car community gets a raging boner over this stuff just because it's a German brand. I would never pay extra for it over any of the other brands like Mobil, Shell, Castrol, etc. The best analogy I can make is how Americans will pay extra for Heineken because it's an import, but in Europe it's the ubiquitous cheap beer at every bar. Conversely, what would you say if I told you Europeans pay extra for a pint of Budweiser?

The whole point of UOA is to establish a trend and then watch for deviations. One report with a spike is hardly a trend and proves very little, and even Blackstone will tell you that. The spike in your first report could have been any number of things, such as particle streaking.

BTW -- not sure why this wasn't posted in the huge UOA thread we already have....

6ixSpd · 06-09-2018, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mvy

I dont see how you could draw any connection between liquid moly/additives and your lead #s going down. If you replaced rod bearings, that explains in full why the lead is down, not the oil you chose.

This...

I'm a huge fan of LM as well, but this conclusion is completely irrelevant to what has changed... There's a big difference between correlation and causation.

doogee · 06-09-2018, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

I've been using Molyslip for years on my truck, that stuff really works wonders. I'm assuming you're only using about a 1/3 of a can at a time, correct?

I use two cans.

whats77inaname · 06-09-2018, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogee

I use two cans.

Interesting story on bobistheoilguy about a guy using a full can.....I only go 1/3 a can.

GORDON.M3 · 06-10-2018, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Interesting story on bobistheoilguy about a guy using a full can.....I only go 1/3 a can.

Are you talking about that tread in regards to the Molyslip clogging things in the guy's car?

whats77inaname · 06-10-2018, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

Are you talking about that tread in regards to the Molyslip clogging things in the guy's car?

It was some guy in a pickup, IIRC. I'll see if I can dig it up at some point.

furry · 06-11-2018, 09:45 AM

Not to mention when you find good deals on LM it comes out to ~$7/liter which helps when you consider 5k intervals.

doogee · 06-11-2018, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Interesting story on bobistheoilguy about a guy using a full can.....I only go 1/3 a can.

Depends on total oil capacity. If you follow the recommended amount, two cans is correct on the M3.

whadapanch · 06-30-2018, 09:11 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't find that the oil recommending itself for BMW M is much of a defense for the oil. I'd prefer BMW to vette it.

roastbeef · 06-30-2018, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whadapanch

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't find that the oil recommending itself for BMW M is much of a defense for the oil. I'd prefer BMW to vette it.

Like Bmw vetted their rod bearings?

:

admranger · 07-05-2018, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Like Bmw vetted their rod bearings?

:

I thought of the same thing.

Drift Unit · 07-09-2018, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1DarkChaos

im huge fan of liquimoly. I used to use oem castrol and every 2000kmi.would need to put in a quart of oil. Everytime. Upon switching to liquimoly, i didnt lose a drop of oil . If is quite unbelievable if you ask me but that is exactly what happened. The engine do run 5 degrees hotter but definitely not a drop of oil burnt.

I noticed the same after I made the switch. No oil consumption at all.

06-07-2018, 08:04 PM	#1
GORDON.M3 Brigadier General 1423 Rep 3,001 Posts Drives: E92 M3 • F25 X3 M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: LAX/YYZ/NRT iTrader: (11)	Rod Bearings, Liquimoly, and the Blackstone Oil Analysis. UPDATE: OCT 25, 2018. Here is my recent report on a second oil analysis, as you can see Ceratec contains high levels of MOS2, even more than Molyslip. So from now on I will be using Ceratec instead for engine protection! There has been quite the stir around the community that Liquimoly is no good for our S65 motors. Enough talk that it has scared people away from using it when it clearly says on the front label "Liquimoly recommends this oil for BMW M-series cars.". Some members have also mentioned that Liquimoly is too thick for our engines in the winter. I daily drive my M3, I put a minimum of 20KM on it a day. I drove the car all throughout the entire winter here in Toronto, even when the temperatures were as low as -35° degrees Celsius. On those days I let the car sit and warm for 5 mins before I reversed the car out of the driveway. The car is not garaged parked and parked outside on the road. Before the winter came I had my rod bearings serviced, I had replaced them with VAC Performance Coated Bearings that had extra clearance and came in a kit with ARP bolts. Prior to having the bearings changed my oil analysis report from Blackstone was looking pretty grim with 31ppm of copper showing. During this time I was using Castrol TWS 10w60. Today I present to you evidence that Liquimoly 10w60 is fine for our cars, even though there might have been cases of "increased engine noise" when compared to using Castrol TWS. I personally don't think the thickness is an issue. This is the first oil analysis after the rod bearings were changed and Liquimoly 10w60 was used throughout the winter months leading into spring. As you can see, the lead count is virtually gone and Blackstone suggests that the rest of the metals in the oil are looking fine. I also want to add, I have used iquimoly Ceratec for break-in for the rod bearings and Molyslip between intervals to protect the engine. I hope this information has helped some of the members here and clarifies any doubts the community may have about Liquimoly. __________________ INSTAGRAM: GORDON.M3 North American Mr12Volt Carplay/Android Auto Distributor DINAN \| EVOSPORT \| VAC \| ARP \| RD SPORT \| NEEZ \| EIBACH \| CSF \| IND \| BILSTEIN \| KLASSEN \| BREMBO \| ENDLESS \| BBS \| BPM SPORT \| PROJECT MU \| EVENTURI Last edited by GORDON.M3; 10-25-2018 at 12:58 PM..
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06-08-2018, 08:39 AM	#2
Mvy Captain 541 Rep 979 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: GA Peach iTrader: (0)	Gordon, There are many oil choices out there. I dont see this being any better or worse for the motor than Motol or Shell. However, I dont see how you could draw any connection between liquid moly/additives and your lead #s going down. If you replaced rod bearings, that explains in full why the lead is down, not the oil you chose. And BTW, there is no break in for rod bearings so not sure why adding ceratec would be necessary. Many of these additives may do no harm, but are probably a waste of money if you are just using a good oil and OCI. Blackstone reports are helpful when viewed over a span of time. Two snapshots are not all that useful other than to establish a baseline. __________________ Harrop Supercharger, BPM Tune, K/W Coil over kit, Stoptek BBK, Magnaflow exhaust, ear to ear grin everytime I drive... Last edited by Mvy; 06-08-2018 at 08:45 AM..
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06-08-2018, 12:22 PM	#3
1DarkChaos Enlisted Member 6 Rep 31 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	im huge fan of liquimoly. I used to use oem castrol and every 2000kmi.would need to put in a quart of oil. Everytime. Upon switching to liquimoly, i didnt lose a drop of oil . If is quite unbelievable if you ask me but that is exactly what happened. The engine do run 5 degrees hotter but definitely not a drop of oil burnt.
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06-08-2018, 01:22 PM	#4
whats77inaname Banned 825 Rep 3,387 Posts Drives: when at all possible Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tx iTrader: (25)	I've been using Molyslip for years on my truck, that stuff really works wonders. I'm assuming you're only using about a 1/3 of a can at a time, correct?
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06-08-2018, 03:22 PM	#5
jcolley Lieutenant 378 Rep 413 Posts Drives: 328 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Maine iTrader: (1)	I see a lot of S65s and S85s that run LM and I'm always pleased when I open them. There's so much less oil varnish internally, even with higher OCIs. I do think however that the LM 10W-60 has a slightly higher specific heat capacity however (haven't really worked out a way in my head to test this yet) and notice it tends to run a little warmer than TWS did on some of these engines. Not really a concern IMO, but on the S85 cars I would prefer to use a larger oil cooler or I pull timing slightly at higher oil temps when tuning.
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06-09-2018, 01:19 PM	#8
CarPoor Discharged 140 Rep 160 Posts Drives: G42 M240ix, JLU Rub, 10 S2 RX8 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	While this one data point is of little value on it’s own it does support the opinion I came too last year when I went through my rod bearing/oil obsession. From all the UOAs posted here the Liqui Moly 10w60 showed overall the lowest “wear metal” numbers of all the oils tested. By overall I mean “wear metals” not just limited to bearing materials, though those too were of note. Doesn’t hurt that Liqui Moly has the best customer service either.
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06-09-2018, 02:44 PM	#11
dparm Stop the hate, get a V8 3850 Rep 8,625 Posts Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Frisco, TX iTrader: (1)	Liqui-Moly is no better or worse than any other off-the-shelf oil. I know that the German car community gets a raging boner over this stuff just because it's a German brand. I would never pay extra for it over any of the other brands like Mobil, Shell, Castrol, etc. The best analogy I can make is how Americans will pay extra for Heineken because it's an import, but in Europe it's the ubiquitous cheap beer at every bar. Conversely, what would you say if I told you Europeans pay extra for a pint of Budweiser? The whole point of UOA is to establish a trend and then watch for deviations. One report with a spike is hardly a trend and proves very little, and even Blackstone will tell you that. The spike in your first report could have been any number of things, such as particle streaking. BTW -- not sure why this wasn't posted in the huge UOA thread we already have.... __________________ Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
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06-11-2018, 09:45 AM	#17
furry Private 16 Rep 92 Posts Drives: E39 M5 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	Not to mention when you find good deals on LM it comes out to ~$7/liter which helps when you consider 5k intervals.
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06-30-2018, 09:11 PM	#19
whadapanch Private 16 Rep 91 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (1)	I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't find that the oil recommending itself for BMW M is much of a defense for the oil. I'd prefer BMW to vette it.
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