BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-21-2019, 02:28 PM   #45
davitopark
Enlisted Member
davitopark's Avatar
8
Rep
40
Posts

Drives: e90 m3 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Eventually I want to do a bbk but on my next run at Laguna I'm gonna try the cobalt pads. They are really pricey but everyone on forum rave about how good they are.
Also going to install hotchkis adjustable sway bar kit with turner rear solid subframe bushings. Cant wait to notice the difference

Also just installed rtd v4 mini shifter and boy was it worth the money. It got rid of the clunky feel, long shift throws, and the slop.
Attached Images
 
__________________
08 E90 M3 6MT

IG: davitopark

Last edited by davitopark; 11-21-2019 at 02:41 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2019, 06:46 PM   #46
Chris_PDX
First Lieutenant
210
Rep
319
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
2012 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Cobalts are great, I run them on my E46. The difference between OEM brakes and a BBK is... well on a scale of 1 - 10 it's like 40. On my E46 M3, which is stripped and way lighter, I was destroying OEM rotors every track day. After a full day, they'd cool and crack after just 4-5 track sessions. And I would have to manage brake temps after the first 3-4 laps.

BBK is just.. amazeballs. Full stopping force, every corner, every lap, for 30 minutes straight. Rotors last a year. Pads last 4-5 days. Price is steep, but at the rate I track and was going through parts, I'll be in the green as far as cost savings goes in just under 2 seasons.
Appreciate 3
      11-22-2019, 12:02 AM   #47
kpewpew
Major
kpewpew's Avatar
United_States
634
Rep
1,141
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Yup, BBK is nice to have. Even with an entry-level BBK and good pads, I can stomp on them without fade. Pads last about 4-5 days for me, too.
__________________
2011 AW E92 M3 | DCT/Comp/Prem/Tech/CF roof
Rotora BBK 6p/380mm + 4p/355mm | APEX EC-7 NT01 & SM-10 MPSS | JRZ RS One & Hyperco 550/800 | Dinan front sway bar & FCAB monoballs | GTS lip & wing | Bomiz valvetronic muffler | ESS ECU tune | GTS DCT tune | Slon Workshop DCT pan | Recaro PP
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2019, 12:48 PM   #48
Chris_PDX
First Lieutenant
210
Rep
319
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
2012 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Yup, BBK is nice to have. Even with an entry-level BBK and good pads, I can stomp on them without fade. Pads last about 4-5 days for me, too.
I can't stomp on them... otherwise it freaks out ABS and locks the fronts. The initial torque is so high, especially on street tires where it overloads the tire grip, my ABS module just wigs right the fuck out. I have to be slower on the initial brake pressure, and full braking force is only at like 50% pedal.

The E92 ABS is so much better in that regards. I need to invest in a motorsport ABS module....
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2019, 12:53 PM   #49
kpewpew
Major
kpewpew's Avatar
United_States
634
Rep
1,141
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Wow Chris_PDX either I'm overestimating how hard my "stomp" is or its the ABS module. To be fair, going fully force immediately does make the rear end wiggly and my NT01s cry a little bit. I bet you're running different tires and pads, my PMU999 aren't too crazy in bite
__________________
2011 AW E92 M3 | DCT/Comp/Prem/Tech/CF roof
Rotora BBK 6p/380mm + 4p/355mm | APEX EC-7 NT01 & SM-10 MPSS | JRZ RS One & Hyperco 550/800 | Dinan front sway bar & FCAB monoballs | GTS lip & wing | Bomiz valvetronic muffler | ESS ECU tune | GTS DCT tune | Slon Workshop DCT pan | Recaro PP
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2019, 03:43 PM   #50
PrimeBMW
Major
PrimeBMW's Avatar
No_Country
258
Rep
1,227
Posts

Drives: E46 M3+S62, E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Yup, BBK is nice to have. Even with an entry-level BBK and good pads, I can stomp on them without fade. Pads last about 4-5 days for me, too.
I can't stomp on them... otherwise it freaks out ABS and locks the fronts. The initial torque is so high, especially on street tires where it overloads the tire grip, my ABS module just wigs right the fuck out. I have to be slower on the initial brake pressure, and full braking force is only at like 50% pedal.

The E92 ABS is so much better in that regards. I need to invest in a motorsport ABS module....
Just get the CSL tune for the e46.
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2019, 05:40 PM   #51
Chris_PDX
First Lieutenant
210
Rep
319
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
2012 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Wow Chris_PDX either I'm overestimating how hard my "stomp" is or its the ABS module. To be fair, going fully force immediately does make the rear end wiggly and my NT01s cry a little bit. I bet you're running different tires and pads, my PMU999 aren't too crazy in bite
I run Cobalt XR2 pads and RS4 tires. So my tires are the weakest link in terms of braking.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2019, 12:20 PM   #52
bigjae1976
Major General
bigjae1976's Avatar
734
Rep
7,335
Posts

Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
Cobalts are great, I run them on my E46. The difference between OEM brakes and a BBK is... well on a scale of 1 - 10 it's like 40. On my E46 M3, which is stripped and way lighter, I was destroying OEM rotors every track day. After a full day, they'd cool and crack after just 4-5 track sessions. And I would have to manage brake temps after the first 3-4 laps.

BBK is just.. amazeballs. Full stopping force, every corner, every lap, for 30 minutes straight. Rotors last a year. Pads last 4-5 days. Price is steep, but at the rate I track and was going through parts, I'll be in the green as far as cost savings goes in just under 2 seasons.
Agreed. There's no way you can keep the OE brakes within a track pad's designed operating temp range. Not unless you drive slow but then what's the point?

BBK is a massive upgrade. Easily good for .5-1 second per hard braking zone. Let's not mention the lower long term costs.

Changing out pads on hot brakes...not fun. I'd miss a session if I waited until they cooled down.
__________________
2015 F34 328iX GT Glacier Silver
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue
2004 E46 M3 Imola Red
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2019, 01:25 PM   #53
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
727
Rep
1,195
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
BBK is a massive upgrade. Easily good for .5-1 second per hard braking zone. Let's not mention the lower long term costs.
I'm assuming that you're comparing the bbk to oem brakes after the track pads have exceeded their temp. window, but that still seems a bit exaggerated.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2019, 08:31 PM   #54
tsk94
Private First Class
tsk94's Avatar
Canada
56
Rep
183
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Agreed. There's no way you can keep the OE brakes within a track pad's designed operating temp range. Not unless you drive slow but then what's the point?

BBK is a massive upgrade. Easily good for .5-1 second per hard braking zone. Let's not mention the lower long term costs.

Changing out pads on hot brakes...not fun. I'd miss a session if I waited until they cooled down.
Lol how do you figure this? Almost every BBK for a car is matched to have near OEM torque values, so unless you're comparing stock brakes with stock pads to a BBK with a higher torque pad this makes zero sense. Assuming equivalent torque brake pads and the same tires the stopping distance will not change, and if it does it would be very minimal. A BBK's real advantage is it's ability to dissipate heat, thus better preventing fade. Pedal feel might improve due to a solid caliper design vs. an OEM floating design, but again, that doesn't affect stopping distance.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2019, 09:05 PM   #55
kpewpew
Major
kpewpew's Avatar
United_States
634
Rep
1,141
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Overheated brakes = longer stopping distance, thus the potential gains to be had. This assumes stock brakes overheat.

I think both of you are thinking the same thing
__________________
2011 AW E92 M3 | DCT/Comp/Prem/Tech/CF roof
Rotora BBK 6p/380mm + 4p/355mm | APEX EC-7 NT01 & SM-10 MPSS | JRZ RS One & Hyperco 550/800 | Dinan front sway bar & FCAB monoballs | GTS lip & wing | Bomiz valvetronic muffler | ESS ECU tune | GTS DCT tune | Slon Workshop DCT pan | Recaro PP
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2019, 03:36 PM   #56
Chris_PDX
First Lieutenant
210
Rep
319
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
2012 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Overheated brakes = longer stopping distance, thus the potential gains to be had. This assumes stock brakes overheat.

I think both of you are thinking the same thing
Yeah, in my experience OEM brakes and BBKs will offer similar stopping distances... for 1-2 laps. Then the OEM distances get longer and longer as the OEM components exceed their thermal limits.

The BBK will offer that consistent brake point lap after lap.
Appreciate 1
Bartledoo727.00

      Yesterday, 02:24 AM   #57
aus
Major General
United_States
594
Rep
8,753
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (10)

Question for BBK guys. How low do you run your pads?
Mine are getting a little thin but should last at least 4 more sessions.
Thinking of getting some titanium backing plates. Anyone know who makes them for Stoptech ST60 caliper?
.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 09:41 AM   #58
PrimeBMW
Major
PrimeBMW's Avatar
No_Country
258
Rep
1,227
Posts

Drives: E46 M3+S62, E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Overheated brakes = longer stopping distance, thus the potential gains to be had. This assumes stock brakes overheat.

I think both of you are thinking the same thing
Yeah, in my experience OEM brakes and BBKs will offer similar stopping distances... for 1-2 laps. Then the OEM distances get longer and longer as the OEM components exceed their thermal limits.

The BBK will offer that consistent brake point lap after lap.
My experience: the OEM system with stainless steel lines plus XR1 or XR2 didn't experience any fade. I actually liked it better than Stoptech ST60. However it was possible to spike the pad temp thus momentarily losing brake performance. The only benefits I realized were ease of pad replacement and pad life. This is running BFGR1 or Hoosier R7.
Appreciate 1
tsk9455.50

      Yesterday, 12:33 PM   #59
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
727
Rep
1,195
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
My experience: the OEM system with stainless steel lines plus XR1 or XR2 didn't experience any fade. I actually liked it better than Stoptech ST60. However it was possible to spike the pad temp thus momentarily losing brake performance. The only benefits I realized were ease of pad replacement and pad life. This is running BFGR1 or Hoosier R7.
Interesting. My PFC08 pads definitely fade after a few laps in PB territory, and then I'm consistently 1.5 seconds slower per lap. This is with more than half pad life remaining and on not so grippy NT01. If the front pads are getting thinner, then the fade comes sooner and is worse.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 02:48 PM   #60
PrimeBMW
Major
PrimeBMW's Avatar
No_Country
258
Rep
1,227
Posts

Drives: E46 M3+S62, E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
My experience: the OEM system with stainless steel lines plus XR1 or XR2 didn't experience any fade. I actually liked it better than Stoptech ST60. However it was possible to spike the pad temp thus momentarily losing brake performance. The only benefits I realized were ease of pad replacement and pad life. This is running BFGR1 or Hoosier R7.
Interesting. My PFC08 pads definitely fade after a few laps in PB territory, and then I'm consistently 1.5 seconds slower per lap. This is with more than half pad life remaining and on not so grippy NT01. If the front pads are getting thinner, then the fade comes sooner and is worse.
Maybe you are buying the wrong Brake pads (you are not the only one). Try Cobalt Friction. I ran XR1 with the E92 M3 OEM brakes because it had a higher MOT than the XR2. I am guessing XR2 should be a better match for you running the NT01. But i would leave that up to the experts.
*Edit. I noticed I mentioned also using XR2 in a previous post. The XR1 was used with the OEM brakes and the XR2 have been used with the Stoptech ST60 front BBK. I would like to try the XR1 with the Stoptech kit but AR didn't have them in stock last minute.
Appreciate 1
Bartledoo727.00

      Yesterday, 02:56 PM   #61
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
727
Rep
1,195
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
Maybe you are buying the wrong Brake pads (you are not the only one). Try Cobalt Friction. I ran XR1 with the E92 M3 OEM brakes because it had a higher MOT than the XR2. I am guessing XR2 should be a better match for you running the NT01. But i would leave that up to the experts.
*Edit. I noticed I mentioned also using XR2 in a previous post. The XR1 was used with the OEM brakes and the XR2 have been used with the Stoptech ST60 front BBK. I would like to try the XR1 with the Stoptech kit but AR didn't have them in stock last minute.
What is the pad life like? I run every week during the season so I may just need to bite the bullet and get the PFC kit with the foot thick pads.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 04:27 PM   #62
Kelse92
Member
United_States
130
Rep
265
Posts

Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
What is the pad life like? I run every week during the season so I may just need to bite the bullet and get the PFC kit with the foot thick pads.
I've been running the XR2's as of recently with OE rotors. Seems like they've been pretty good so far. Only reason I'm wanting a BBK is ease of pad swaps. That's it.
__________________

#ladydriven // KW 2-way Clubsports // AA x-pipe // Gintani muffler // Macht-Schnell intake // Gintani tune // Apex EC-7 PS-7 & ARC-8 // Cobalt Friction brake pads // Vorsteiner CF
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST