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      09-28-2020, 01:56 PM   #23
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Drive them both hard and you'll understand why.
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      09-28-2020, 02:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilum View Post
Of course, one is a rear engine sports car, and one is a front engine RWD sporty car.

To answer the post however, I think the E90M is a better overall car than a 997 911, that's why.

It sounds way better, and is way more practical. An E90 M is also way faster than a lof of the 997 models.

There are a lot of reasons one would choose an E90 M over a 997. The way the question is phrased it sounds like a loaded question though when its actually a pretty close comparison even if you have a 2009+ Carrera S.

I don't think 997's are all that special unless you really get a turbo or gt3.

I have never driven a GT3 (always wanted to)..... but I have had a lot of wheel time in both a 997.2 GTS (RWD) and a 997.2TT (AWD)...both manuals. I'd take the RWD GTS over the TT any day of the week. TT is blindingly fast but the GTS feels 500lbs lighter and much more tossable.
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      09-28-2020, 05:55 PM   #25
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Interesting. I'm definitely in the hunt for a 997.2TTS.
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      09-28-2020, 07:27 PM   #26
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This is sooo funny. I was on the fence between the M3 and a 997 911 carrera of early stages, to make it cheaper. I wanted a daily to sit next to my GT350R, so I don't put as many miles on it...

I drove both, the Carrera which a friend of mine owns; and it's HANDS DOWN a better car than the M3.. a better car for me, for track purposes. If you have kids to haul, or luggage or such, and can't afford more than a car, of course the sedan M3 is better.

I only bought the M3 because I got it for 22k , if I could score a Carrera S for that kind of dough, I would have said pass on M3 without hesitation.

I know this is an M3 board, but let's be realistic
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Last edited by torrque; 09-28-2020 at 07:28 PM.. Reason: Mistake, it is 997
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      09-28-2020, 08:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torrque View Post
This is sooo funny. I was on the fence between the M3 and a 997 911 carrera of early stages, to make it cheaper. I wanted a daily to sit next to my GT350R, so I don't put as many miles on it...

I drove both, the Carrera which a friend of mine owns; and it's HANDS DOWN a better car than the M3.. a better car for me, for track purposes. If you have kids to haul, or luggage or such, and can't afford more than a car, of course the sedan M3 is better.

I only bought the M3 because I got it for 22k , if I could score a Carrera S for that kind of dough, I would have said pass on M3 without hesitation.

I know this is an M3 board, but let's be realistic
There is no doubt a higher end 997 is a better car the higher up you go. If you are spending under $35K the M3 is just a better car for the money given that budget, but above that price, of course the 911 997 is the clear choice as it is in a different league.

If the OP said why an E90 M3 over a TT, GTS or even an 09 + S well then its a different conversation.
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      09-28-2020, 09:55 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post

Maybe if I ever drive a 993 I'll "get it". IMO, the 993 was the first time the 911 was really any good as a "car" anyway (not a 911 specific criticism, as cars did kindof suck across the board deep into the 1990's)

If I didn't have my car for some reason, I'd go get another M3 right away, it wouldn't even be a hard decision.

This is why there are multiple car manufacturers.
I have been fortunate enough to drive a Guards red 993 for a period of time and this is my take on it:

1. Retro feel wise I loved the 993. Saturday night drive with your love listening to a cassette tape is one of the nicer experiences in life. On a daily basis, it drew way too much attention from the public for me to be comfortable. It is a special-occasions car no doubt.

2. As a sports car I prefer Z4M/E36 M3 euro every single time due to the excellent weight distribution of M cars. The typical rear engine layout understeer however is addicting and you find yourself trying to find that optimal balance out of corner exit for faster full throttle unlike Ms where you pull heavy Gs around the corners.

3. Knowing there is one less fluid to worry about also felt great.


This brings to the point that I find all the M3s until F8x more attractive because of the subtle designs and their savage powertrains. They were truly cars for the Gentlemen... I can enjoy everyday without drawing too much attention other than a smoke of exhaust and tires that suggest their race genes.
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      09-28-2020, 11:29 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilum View Post
There is no doubt a higher end 997 is a better car the higher up you go. If you are spending under $35K the M3 is just a better car for the money given that budget, but above that price, of course the 911 997 is the clear choice as it is in a different league.

If the OP said why an E90 M3 over a TT, GTS or even an 09 + S well then its a different conversation.
Think you can find plenty of 997.1 C2Sí for under $35k. Under $25k is the challenge.
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      09-28-2020, 11:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torrque View Post
This is sooo funny. I was on the fence between the M3 and a 997 911 carrera of early stages, to make it cheaper. I wanted a daily to sit next to my GT350R, so I don't put as many miles on it...

I drove both, the Carrera which a friend of mine owns; and it's HANDS DOWN a better car than the M3.. a better car for me, for track purposes. If you have kids to haul, or luggage or such, and can't afford more than a car, of course the sedan M3 is better.

I only bought the M3 because I got it for 22k , if I could score a Carrera S for that kind of dough, I would have said pass on M3 without hesitation.

I know this is an M3 board, but let's be realistic
Was it a 997.1 or .2?
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      09-29-2020, 12:53 AM   #31
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I own both a 997.1 4s and e90 m3. Wont waste time as there is so much to read about the differences as an earlier poster noted, but as to pricing, you won't find a similarly priced 997 unless its a base model, or a very high mileage S model say 05-06. Both 997.1 and .2 are actually appreciating somewhat especially in manual version.
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      09-29-2020, 09:01 AM   #32
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I have some fresh perspective having just owned a minty zcp E92 6MT which I sold 3 months ago and replaced with a 997.2 C2 6MT.

Will try not to regurgitate what others have already said but, yes, the 997 (.1 or .2) is a better pure sports car, imo. Not surprising given one is a dedicated GT/sports car platform and one is a modified sedan-based platform.

Handling-911
Steering-911
Acceleration-pretty close
Engine-M3
Sound-M3
Reliability-wash, if 997.1 (997.2 is bulletproof)
Practicality-M3
Looks-your call

I really think it depends on your budget. For $30k, you can get a very decent e9x M3 or a higher mileage and older 997.1. Personally, I'm not sure I would sell an M3 for a 997.1.

Call me an alarmist but one of the reasons I sold the M3 and moved into a 997.2 was the dark cloud of engine failure looming over the S65. As statistically minor as it may be, it did take something away from the ownership experience. Same reason why I never considered a 997.1 with its IMS and bore scoring issues.

As you start to approach $40k, the M3 makes less sense and a 997.2 starts to become a reality. You really aren't going to find any 997.2 6MT coupes for less than $40k, however, and they are only going up. My minty Interlagos 6MT low mileage zcp coupe was in that mid to upper 30's in value and, for me, it was worth it to spend another ~$5k for a 997.2 even though the 911 has double the miles of the M3 I sold. I have now owned 2 other 9A1 engined P-cars and they have been bulletproof, so it was worth the extra bread for me.

Having been without the M3 for a few months now, I do miss it. The engine really is very very special.
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      09-29-2020, 12:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd View Post
Friend of mine with an E92 M3 got himself a 997.1 Turbo. Tracked both cars. Sold the 911, still owns the M3. 'Nuf sed.
Wrong car for the track, imo. I'd enjoy a base 997.1 more than a 997TT at the track. Actually, I'd prefer a base Cayman over either.
Having said that, I agree that, between the M3 & the Turbo, I would rather be in the M3. More fun, more engaging, better sound.
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Last edited by 850tgul; 09-29-2020 at 12:40 PM..
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      09-29-2020, 12:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HadesM3 View Post
Personally, I think a 987 Cayman S is a better comparison to the e90/92 M3 overall. The Cayman obviously handles better, acceleration similar with slight nod to M3, but M3 is more practical with back seats.

The 987S has been on my radar for a couple of years, since I typically never have passengers in my car. However, the M3 is still in the garage.
If practicality, more specifically back seats, isn't a requirement and I had $25-$35k to spend, then I would pick a 987.2 Cayman (base or S) or 981 base over any M3 or 997 in that price range.

The Cayman steers like the 911 but without the understeer and it feels miles more nimble and agile than the M3 but I am an admitted Cayman stan.
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      09-29-2020, 03:05 PM   #35
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The 981 and 718 may be the best road car chassis ever devised by humans. The limit handling isn't even the point, although it is great. The whole car pivots around your right hip, and somehow has 1.0+g of lateral grip (probably even in the rain) without feeling numb or "bored" even well below the limit

Every time the 997 comes up I mention the GTR eventually, so there, I mentioned it.

The GTR is the best non-E9xM dual-duty street/track car for somebody who wants four seats, change my mind dot meme
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      09-29-2020, 03:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
The 981 and 718 may be the best road car chassis ever devised by humans. The limit handling isn't even the point, although it is great. The whole car pivots around your right hip, and somehow has 1.0+g of lateral grip (probably even in the rain) without feeling numb or "bored" even well below the limit

Every time the 997 comes up I mention the GTR eventually, so there, I mentioned it.

The GTR is the best non-E9xM dual-duty street/track car for somebody who wants four seats, change my mind dot meme
Show me that $25-35k GTR and I sell my piece of shit Porsche rn
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      09-29-2020, 04:04 PM   #37
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I have both. Honestly 997 is all around a better car, especially the gt3 (I have a 997 gt3). The m3 is a better daily (i have e90 manual sedan).
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      09-29-2020, 10:34 PM   #38
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It really depends on what you're doing with the car...
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      09-30-2020, 08:30 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flsupraguy View Post
I have both. Honestly 997 is all around a better car, especially the gt3 (I have a 997 gt3). The m3 is a better daily (i have e90 manual sedan).
i have a close friend who is scouring the earth for a clean 997.2 GT3.... any chance you are considering selling it soon?
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      09-30-2020, 08:52 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRF View Post
i have a close friend who is scouring the earth for a clean 997.2 GT3.... any chance you are considering selling it soon?
No unless your friend has six figures (high 1xxK) to spend. Mine is a sharkwerks 4.1 stroker car, engine alone is nearly 50k. $12,000 Ohlin coilovers, carbon GT2 buckets, ect....
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      09-30-2020, 09:04 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdM1nsarEas$ View Post
Show me that $25-35k GTR and I sell my piece of shit Porsche rn
Nice 997.2 vs. Nice GTR is a pretty fair price comparison on the used market. However, "POS" 997 owners need not apply without financing, lol

Here's a nice 2014 for $63k

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

This one even has a built in lunch tray

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight
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      09-30-2020, 09:06 AM   #42
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wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by flsupraguy View Post
No unless your friend has six figures (high 1xxK) to spend. Mine is a sharkwerks 4.1 stroker car, engine alone is nearly 50k. $12,000 Ohlin coilovers, carbon GT2 buckets, ect....
it's not the money that is a non-starter, he is looking for a stock/unmodified car. but thank you, sounds like a beast!
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      10-02-2020, 03:51 PM   #43
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I fell in love with the 997.2 C2S and ended up selling the E90.

But bang for the buck the E9x is incredible.
High red line
Standard with LSD
Shifter feels more direct
Everything feels more raw.
Steering ratio is quicker
Incredible intake noises on blips

997 carrera S
Sleepier rev behavior, throttle response is not as sharp as M3.
Has lazier steering ratio
LSD is rarely optioned
Shifter is cable linkage and sucks
Clutch feel is nearly as bad as e90
Exhaust sounds satisfying in its own distinctive way though

But the E90 was a paradox for me. Sporty car that is supposed to be practical, dailyable, and trackable.
But in reality
- Steering wheel feels somewhat off center and tiring for long distance driving.
- engine torque is low and difficult for city traffic or going through hilly roads at normal speeds
- Steering is heavy and tiring for a daily
- Gas tank is small and fuel economy is highly sensitive to throttle, leading to 200 mi fill ups and severe range anxiety in remote road trips where availability of premium is not guaranteed
- engine braking is heavy even in top gear and very tiring on long trips because you can never just coast, you have to always feather.

So the M3 is more exciting than the carrera but almost too much so that it no longer makes sense as a daily car.

But as a dedicated track car
Carrera has a clearly stiffer chassis feel and lower center of gravity. It communicates better around turns even with the unstable rear.
Carrera has a shorter wheel base which is more unstable but more fun.
E90 eats brakes and tires. It makes more sense to get something lighter dedicated for the track than to keep the E90 as a dedicated track car.

As a road trip car the carrera is so much more enjoyable.
Itís low rpm torque is so usable it makes mountain roads effortless and likewise with the lighter weight, chassis stiffness and steering.
A C2S can easily get 26 mph and possibly 28 mph if you hypermile, making 350mi fill ups possible.

I think the M3 really shows itís value when driving it between 5-8k rpm but thatís not my style and the C2S is the more enjoyable drive when taking it easy on the throttle and slinging it around corners.

I definitely didnít want to sell the E90. It looks attractive and timeless and the engine and entire package is a fantastic motorsport value. But it ended up being the odd one out when I ran out of space in my garage.

Last edited by tubedreamer; 10-02-2020 at 03:57 PM..
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      10-03-2020, 03:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermack View Post
It really depends on what you're doing with the car...
^^ this. 911 is not practical at all. The M3 is very practical.

Zero complaints about the e92 DCT M3. Best car you can buy for the money.

I didn't like the 997 chassis or steering at all. There is a point of too much feedback on the road - making the drive rather uncomfortable on the street. On the track the short wheel base and engine placement made the car a handful for sure.

The 991's offer such dramatic improvement on the 997's but yeah the price jump is rather hefty.
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