Drive: BMW outlines future supercar plans

[vasi_M3]

Curious if that means both street and track versions I.e AMG GT and AMG GTR ...would love to be both...imagine the rebirth of the M1!!!!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Wolf

Not gonna happen

Originally Posted by BwoodBMW

Came here to say the same thing.
Won't happen.

Skepticism is certainly fair here.

I look at it like this:

1) You either believe they'll flush the platform or that they'll continue to try and recuperate more from it. My thought on this that they will work hard here to find a business case for a follow-up.

2) If we move from (1) for the sake of argument, you either believe they'll try once again - even with an influx of next-generation high performance hybrid and pure electric sports cars and super cars coming - to get away with an underpowered, "Guys, it's about efficiency not performance!" type of product or that they'll realize that didn't work out so well. My thought on this is that they will try something different.

So, to me this is less about BMW setting out on a mission to create a supercar from the ground up, and more about them evaluating their assets and making the best use of them to come up with a compelling product. It may just so happen that such a product turns out to be a super car. As Frolich said:

"I have a wonderful carbon fibre chassis for a sports car in my portfolio"

Might as well make good use of it. I'm not saying its a lock by any means, but there is perhaps room for a little more optimism than in the past.

[adc]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think it could fit longitudinally. A supercar doesn't need to be a 2+2 so they can gain space by removing the back seats. Alternatively they could relocate the engine up front but that would require moving the "firewall" and other rework of the vehicle architecture so it would probably not be favored from a cost perspective.

I doubt the rear seats can be easily removed, they are part of the carbon tub. The whole tub would need a full redesign, and that would drive the costs up and the likelihood of it happening down.

I still think the S63 makes the most sense, plus with a mild hybrid it would easily surpass 700BHP, maybe even 800. As much as I like the S55/8, I don’t think it’s the right engine here.

BMW has exactly one chance left for a last hurrah supercar with an ICE core -the swan song of its combustion engine expertise. By 2030 it will all be obsolete, crushed into oblivion by a multitude of thousand+ BHP electric hypercars.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by adc

I doubt the rear seats can be easily removed, they are part of the carbon tub. The whole tub would need a full redesign, and that would drive the costs up and the likelihood of it happening down.

My thought is that the "life module" will be reworked entirely anyway because the car will borrow nothing aesthetically from the i8. This can allow the "drive module" to accommodate a different combustion engine.

I still think the S63 makes the most sense, plus with a mild hybrid it would easily surpass 700BHP, maybe even 800. As much as I like the S55/8, I don’t think it’s the right engine here.

I feel that a V8 hybrid would make the business case more difficult because they still want this to be a "do more with less" product that is to some degree in keeping with the BMW i ethos and leverages the money they've spent on building the brand as such.

BMW has exactly one chance left for a last hurrah supercar with an ICE core -the swan song of its combustion engine expertise. By 2030 it will all be obsolete, crushed into oblivion by a multitude of thousand+ BHP electric hypercars.

Possible quibbling over the precise timeline aside, on this I agree with you.

[SeanWRT]

Turbocharged 6 cylinder on rear + electric motor on front. We already have this thing. Acura NSX. See how that project works out.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Law

450kW translates to just a hair over 600 HP.
If this does materialize, I really hope they drop an inline-six in there.
I know BMW can make a potent inline-four cylinder if they put their mind to it but that's still (on paper) too close for comfort to the current i8 (3-cylinder).
For something that's going to be a halo for BMW, as a representation of its ethos in the performance realm, the inline-six is most appropriate since "higher end"/"big capacity" layouts like V8 and V10 engines are ruled out.

That said, this is an interesting development, and I wonder if this will fall under BMW i or BMW M.

I know previously BMW had said (when speaking of the i8) that BMW i and BMW M would not encroach on each other in an effort to keep their identities separate.

However, with the development of a hybrid supercar, the emphasis is equal on both hybrid powertrain and performance envelope so naturally one wonders the extent of involvement/cooperation of both BMW i (hybrid) and BMW M (supercar).

Interesting food for thought.

you and I are on the same thinking. If they drop a I6t (or a I4t) in the neighborhood of 300 HP to 400 HP for the ICE, this car will easily compete against the McClarens of the world.

I am excited to see this development.

My guess is, they will stick with the I3. I3 is an odd ball today and was an odd ball when it came out. But the future will look very different. Electric will be the primary propulsion and power output for most sports/super cars of the next generation.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Turbocharged 6 cylinder on rear + electric motor on front. We already have this thing. Acura NSX. See how that project works out.

You're not understanding this....this BMW car will be primarily powered by electric with the ICE (if there's even an ICE), being the secondary power output. It's completely the opposite of what current hybrid supercars are powered by.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by adc

I doubt the rear seats can be easily removed, they are part of the carbon tub. The whole tub would need a full redesign, and that would drive the costs up and the likelihood of it happening down.

I still think the S63 makes the most sense, plus with a mild hybrid it would easily surpass 700BHP, maybe even 800. As much as I like the S55/8, I don’t think it’s the right engine here.

BMW has exactly one chance left for a last hurrah supercar with an ICE core -the swan song of its combustion engine expertise. By 2030 it will all be obsolete, crushed into oblivion by a multitude of thousand+ BHP electric hypercars.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

My thought is that the "life module" will be reworked entirely anyway because the car will borrow nothing aesthetically from the i8. This can allow the "drive module" to accommodate a different combustion engine.





I feel that a V8 hybrid would make the business case more difficult because they still want this to be a "do more with less" product that is to some degree in keeping with the BMW i ethos and leverages the money they've spent on building the brand as such.



Possible quibbling over the precise timeline aside, on this I agree with you.

Also to add, the S63 packaging already makes it really tight in a large passenger car such as in the M5 and M6. I cannot see BMW doing a 400 kwh battery with a S63 and somehow still managing to keep the car under 4000lbs in a MR layout.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

You're not understanding this....this BMW car will be primarily powered by electric with the ICE (if there's even an ICE), being the secondary power output. It's completely the opposite of what current hybrid supercars are powered by.

Where did you get that?

Aiming at 600 you already have a 4 or 6 cylinder that's 350~500hp capable. Doesn't make any sense electric power takes the lead, at front wheel.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Where did you get that?

Aiming at 600 you already have a 4 or 6 cylinder that's 350~500hp capable. Doesn't make any sense electric power takes the lead, at front wheel.

I guess what I'm saying is, expect the balance of the power to be at least 50% from the battery or more. a 300 HP ICE will account for around 225of the total kw

The NSX's battery is only 27 kw, which is significantly smaller portion of the powertrain.

[phoenixbmwlife]

BMW "we" need this.
Make it the new S58 in-line 6 from BMWM with a newly developed electric motor from BMWi. And the idea that BMWi and BMWM cannot work together is outright childish.

Oh one more thing, to compete in the market of the 2020s a 600hp supercar is not enough power. Shoot an M6 has more power than that. You need 700hp to really be competitive and really bring forth the power and excitement of both BMWi and BMWM for the 2020s.

BMW I urge you to listen to this.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

BMW "we" need this.
Make it the new S58 in-line 6 from BMWM with a newly developed electric motor from BMWi. And the idea that BMWi and BMWM cannot work together is outright childish.

Oh one more thing, to compete in the market of the 2020s a 600hp supercar is not enough power. Shoot an M6 has more power than that. You need 700hp to really be competitive and really bring forth the power and excitement of both BMWi and BMWM for the 2020s.

BMW I urge you to listen to this.

Well it seems they listened when they developed the Z4, early reports said it's much closer in capability to the Porsche than last gen. BMW just need to aim at the 720S and whatever is due next from McLaren. Then again it'd be pretty sensible if they did a joint project with McLaren again. The Toyota tie up worked after all. Just limit this mythical super car to 1000 units and they can charge whatever they want for it

[Darth One]

and i urge you, BMW, to forget electric on this one. i like how adc put it - "last hurrah".

do one insane, rip-roaring, full internal combustion, N/A, middle-finger-raised-to-the-future honest supercar. limited production won't torpedo your CAFE. it will be a homage to your past and also a nice little test to see if there would be an ongoing business case for future halo cars that keep you relevant to enthusiasts...a la Porsche GT program.

i am willing to bet that your frustrated fans will sell out that production run immediately and start a crazy secondary market.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

We've been down this road a million and one times. There have been a million reports saying BMW is going to build a supercar and a month or two later, it's cancelled.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[F32Fleet]

Just in time for the next recession.

[DCG]

BMW iM Plug-in Hybrid

I consider this car super cool and super cool looking but not a supercar.

This is something I'd be very interested in!!!

[DCG]

BMW iM Plug-in Hybrid

This looks cool and it would be cool, but it's definitely NOT a supercar.

This is something I would seriously be interested in!!!

[kyrix1st]

Mid engine layout of inline 6 is as inefficient as it gets. Just throw in a high revving V8 from Z4 GT3 and be done with it

[DCG]

Now this is a proper Supercar!

[antzcrashing]

You had my interest, but lost it at hybrid. No one wants another i8, no one considers that a supercar

[scrammer]

Whatever the configuration is ... This car is already 5 years late to the party!

Just imagine where super/hyper cars will be by 2021 ... This will be an also ran, nothing more.

Think of the A.M. Valkyrie, the AMG Project One, etc.

[adc]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Mid engine layout of inline 6 is as inefficient as it gets. Just throw in a high revving V8 from Z4 GT3 and be done with it

I say the opposite. Since you’re wasting the longitudinal space with 6 cylinders, why not throw in a V12 and call it a day. Maybe a twin turbo V12, if only BMW had one...