Anyone come from 911 Gen 2 C2s or C4s?

[gen2c4s]

Hi, due to needing a bit more space I am thinking of getting rid of my manual gen 2 C4s. Its not a definate but tbh it gets to the weekend and we end up using our X5.
I have driven a few DCT cars and really liked them although I felt the engine in the C4s to be a little livelier although that may be due to high revving nature of the V8.
I would appreciate any thoughts from anyone who has gone this way.
Thanks.

[elh0102]

I have a few years' experience in both a 997S and 996 GT3, street and track. I've kind of given up the track stuff for a while, have sold the GT3 and will take delivery of a new M3 July 12th. Compared to the Porsche, especially the GT3, the M3 feels exactly like what it is, a very competent sports sedan that offers the utility of inside room, trunk, and very good handling. And yes, the BMW motor is relatively peaky, and will feel responsive only at higher rpms. Every aspect of the driving sensation, steering, braking, road feel, etc, is better in the Porsche. If you want the added conveniences offered by the sedan, I know of no better option than the M3.

[gen2c4s]

Thanks for your honest reply.

[yemenmocha]

Originally Posted by elh0102

I have a few years' experience in both a 997S and 996 GT3, street and track. I've kind of given up the track stuff for a while, have sold the GT3 and will take delivery of a new M3 July 12th. Compared to the Porsche, especially the GT3, the M3 feels exactly like what it is, a very competent sports sedan that offers the utility of inside room, trunk, and very good handling. And yes, the BMW motor is relatively peaky, and will feel responsive only at higher rpms. Every aspect of the driving sensation, steering, braking, road feel, etc, is better in the Porsche. If you want the added conveniences offered by the sedan, I know of no better option than the M3.

I currently have a 997S and am seriously considering an e90 as well (as an addition). It strikes me as an amazingly practical & comfortable sedan that is also fast, whether it has 2 really long doors or 4 normal ones.

[SenorFunkyPants]

I have a long history of 911 ownership but switched to M3s several years ago...anyway I had the opportunity to have a 997 gen2 C2S with PDK for the day as my local dealer wanted to talk me back into a 911. I have to say there wasn't a great deal of difference between the two in terms of performance of either the engine or gearbox but the 997 does give you more confidence in what the chassis is doing. The 911 is a bit more involving and its definitely a special car but the M3 is not that far behind and as a daily driver/people carrier/GT car makes a pretty good choice.

[JBurer]

Agree with this posters comments except for perhaps the last one. I have a 91 turbo (modified 480hp to the wheels) and 135I (stock). Got a wild hair and was considering consolidating two cars into one and drove the M.

Personally, I like the power band of the twin turbo 6 in the 135/335 better than the V8 in the M3 for around town driving... that's stock to stock. With the Dinan ECU flash I imagine the car would be substantially more fun to drive on my commute to work.

Winding mountain roads and drivers events at the track, the M3's powerband would be a joy. For around down driving, I'll take the 35I and put the extra 25k to work elsewhere!

Originally Posted by elh0102

I have a few years' experience in both a 997S and 996 GT3, street and track. I've kind of given up the track stuff for a while, have sold the GT3 and will take delivery of a new M3 July 12th. Compared to the Porsche, especially the GT3, the M3 feels exactly like what it is, a very competent sports sedan that offers the utility of inside room, trunk, and very good handling. And yes, the BMW motor is relatively peaky, and will feel responsive only at higher rpms. Every aspect of the driving sensation, steering, braking, road feel, etc, is better in the Porsche. If you want the added conveniences offered by the sedan, I know of no better option than the M3.

[Dartanium]

Drive 997 C4S all the time and it feels more response in terms of overall feeling than M3. I'm sure the 300lb weight difference also plays a role and Porsche brakes inspires confidence both on and off the track. If you do not absolutely need the utility of a sedan M3, I would keep the c4s for sure. I would also take a look at the C63 with P31 package if you are looking for a small sedan with extra power.

[Dave07997S]

I currently own a 2007 997C2S that I have had now for 3.5 years now. I am selling the car and getting a 2011 E92 M3 ZCP. To be honest I always fitted into a BMW more than a Porsche. The 997S was a rocket ship and I have to say I disagree with Laszlo that the E92 is on par or better than the 997S in performance. It is the other way around..the 997S is a tad better than the E92 M3 when it comes to performance. Especially when it comes to the 997.2S with its 385hp DFI motor.

The issue for me is about practicality along with user friendliness that the 997 just doesn't have while having performance on par or slightly below the capabilities of the 997S. The issue for me is also price...I am getting into this E92 M3 with a payment that is $300+ less per month and it is fully loaded vs. my sparsely equipped 997.

I always felt the M3 felt more secure in the corners than the 997S as the light front end likes to bounce with the Porsche, while the M3 took a stance and held it throughout the curve. A lot of this was due to the fact the 997 is a rear engine layout and there is no weight on the front of these cars. So as you enter the corner you like a little brake to shift the weight of the car to the front a tad and this helped enormousley.

I am going to miss the 997, but I do feel the E92 M3 was a better fit for me. I have owned 2 E46 M3's and I am looking forward to getting into the V8 M3. I think this car is going to be a classic as the only model M3 with a V8.

Dave

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

I currently own a 2007 997C2S that I have had now for 3.5 years now. I am selling the car and getting a 2011 E92 M3 ZCP. To be honest I always fitted into a BMW more than a Porsche. The 997S was a rocket ship and I have to say I disagree with Laszlo that the E92 is on par or better than the 997S in performance.
I am going to miss the 997, but I do feel the E92 M3 was a better fit for me. I have owned 2 E46 M3's and I am looking forward to getting into the V8 M3. I think this car is going to be a classic as the only model M3 with a V8.

Dave

Dave: best answer ever and *exactly* how I think about these 2 cars, which I both love .. but are different solutions to different usage profiles.

[Chest Rockwell]

This is exactly the post I've been looking for!! I have a 996 as a second pleasure car but it's a pain in the ass having to go pull it out of storage when I want to drive it, and putting it away for the winter breaks my heart. I started looking for a car to replace it and my daily so I could enjoy my commute to work every day instead of on the occasional perfectly sunny day.

I started by looking at an Audi S4, great car and with the quattro can be a true all weather car. I like to make sure though so i went to look at a Benz, they didn't have a C63 AMG in stock but I hopped in an E63 and the interior felt too "play school" for a car that expensive. I went to look at a Jag, but not in a position where I can drop 90K on a car right now.

I finally made my way to a BMW dealer and got a chance to drive a 2011 M3 and was blown away. I live in the DC area and the DCT is going to be invaluable to me with the clowns we have here that can't seem to figure out the concept of zippering traffic. I'm trying to track down my perfect car now, but I am completely sold on the M3. I love my Porsche and will have one again, but as an all around car I don't think I'm going to find one better than the M3.

[karussell]

Go for the M3 to switch it up. I have an RS and an E90 M3. I'm almost crazy enough to daily drive the RS, but I don't have to deal with any type of traffic. If I was back in LA, it would be weekend only. The M3 with DCT you can drive any day rain or shine, traffic or not. Since this is the last year for the 997, I think its good timing. If you don't like the M3 after 2 years, you can switch back to a 991 P-car. PDK is quite nice on the gen 2 997's now that they have proper shift paddles. should be even better next year.

Only thing i think you would be concerned about is the miserable fuel economy of the M3. If you plan on driving it like an M3 expect to be filling up quite often.

[positiveions]

E90 M3 is more versatile. On long trips, you can pack-up bags, place your significant other in the trunk also, and listen to some good music, and if anyone tries to wrestle with you on the road, you can just floor it. I hope this helps.
PS. I am also struggling on the idea of getting a used 2007 911 Carrera S. But then again, E90 M3 offers more.

[GnokGnik]

If I were in your position, I would go for a "different feel" car...like a C63, or even the new 5ers. That said, the e90 M3 is (and should) be your first choice.

[J BONE]

Great thread! In the same boat. Driving a 335 now which I love but looking for something different. Was going back and forth on 911 vs M3. Maybe it is because I feel comfortable inside a BMW but I enjoyed the M3 a lot more. Not to take anything away from the 911 by any means. To get payments the same, I was looking at a 3 year old, fairly stock 911 vs loaded E92. Since I don't plan on tracking that much, M3 seems the better option for me. Gas mileage will stink, but oh well. Very nice write ups, thanks guys

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by eatrach73

E90 M3 is more versatile. On long trips, you can pack-up bags, place your significant other in the trunk also, and listen to some good music, and if anyone tries to wrestle with you on the road, you can just floor it. I hope this helps.
PS. I am also struggling on the idea of getting a used 2007 911 Carrera S. But then again, E90 M3 offers more.

I have an 07 997S if you are interested...



Rather give it to a member than let the dealer get it.

Dave

[TheKosherStogie]

i came from 997.2 s cab manual to 2008 e92 m3 dct....m3 is a better all arounder...but i didnt like it a first...feels big and heavy, you feel like you are sitting high up like a any old car..i only got the m3 cause there was no other car i would buy..and its definitely less responsive, less feedback but once u get used to it and start pushing it, it is quite amazing, a fantastic car....and alot more confidence inspiring than the c2s....easier to drive fast....and its more useful day to day. but also more dull.

[F15-31]

I both Miss and Love my 997 Cabrio Tip, But I Too became the new owner of a fully loaded E92 6spd. Man I love this car. And Im comparing it to my 07 audi RS4, E90 335i, Audi TTs and my 997 cab.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

I have to say I disagree with Laszlo that the E92 is on par or better than the 997S in performance. It is the other way around..the 997S is a tad better than the E92 M3 when it comes to performance. Especially when it comes to the 997.2S with its 385hp DFI motor.

I think the figures for the E92 M3 put it very slightly ahead in a straight line drag against the 997S...you will definitely need the gen 2 997S if you want to put your nose ahead.
Track times are a mixed bag...the 997S ahead at some and the M3 ahead at others. The 6 second difference (over an 8 minute lap) between them at the ring shows how close they are in real world driving...a different set of tyres would be enough to change the order.

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I think the figures for the E92 M3 put it very slightly ahead in a straight line drag against the 997S...you will definitely need the gen 2 997S if you want to put your nose ahead.
Track times are a mixed bag...the 997S ahead at some and the M3 ahead at others. The 6 second difference (over an 8 minute lap) between them at the ring shows how close they are in real world driving...a different set of tyres would be enough to change the order.

It's true that on some tracks the m3 is faster, but overall the 997 CS2 has the edge:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...3_E92_DKG.html

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I think the figures for the E92 M3 put it very slightly ahead in a straight line drag against the 997S...you will definitely need the gen 2 997S if you want to put your nose ahead.
Track times are a mixed bag...the 997S ahead at some and the M3 ahead at others. The 6 second difference (over an 8 minute lap) between them at the ring shows how close they are in real world driving...a different set of tyres would be enough to change the order.

I beg to differ on the straight line drags times. I have yet to see a stock E92 M3 clock a 12.3 @114.8mph in the 1/4 mile and 3.9 sec. to 60mph like Road and Track did. They all seem to be in the 12.5 - 12.6 range true, but they did record this awesome time. I agree though it is a drivers race.

The E92 M3 is just such a solid performer in all catagories and it still has the versatility, hence my move over back to the M3.

Dave

[SenorFunkyPants]

Its pretty much as I said...997C2S gen 2> M3>=997S
Which fastestlaps.com tends to support.
http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...88b437911.html
The times are mostly from magazine testers so the driver shouldn't be much of an influence....tyres and weather will make more of a difference.
In real life driving the 997C2S gen 2 doesn't "feel" that much faster than the M3 in a straight line

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by shift@red

The 997.2S beats the M3 in every statistical category. 0-60, 0-100, 0-150 and beats its by a good amount the faster the speeds get. its also going to be faster on every track with someone who knows how to drive it.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/4...744cdd4d5.html

Its faster on EVERY track listed- 15 seconds faster on the ring, and a 1+ second lead on 6 out of the other 9 track listed. Its smallest margin is .5 seconds on a 1:05 lap which wont easily be made up.

M3 has the straight line speed edge on a 997.1 (which is a 6 year old car now), but on a track the 997.1 will still put up better times, again, with a driver who knows how to drive.

Again, the m3s caveat is the practicality of it, which is what you mentioned. If you dont include the GTR, its best in its class.

Even the 997.1S has seen better recorded times from the mags..Road and Track ran a 12.3 @ 114.8mph and a 0-60 time of 3.9 sec, beating the best time I have seen from an E92 M3 even with a DCT. In fact the best time I have seen from an E92 M3 was Road and Track as well with a 6 spd. manual when they ran 0-60 in 4.1 and the 1/4 mile in 12.5 @114.8 mph. The issue is that the 997 with those huge gumball tires and the rear weight distribution of the 997 gives the 997 the edge even though the power to weight ratio of these cars are very similar.

Dave