1st to 2nd grind at high rpm

[Hephaesta]

Ever since I finished the break in period I have had this issue with my 08 M3. Happens about 1 out of every 3-4 times. At first I thought I was doing something wrong so I went through a variety of techniques trying to find the "magic formula" that would make the issue go away. Never could find one.

I brought this up with my SA a couple of years ago and they said that the transmission was OK. But they didn't test it under full throttle at red line. At the time I sort of let it go since I rarely do 0-60 runs.

Since I'm approaching the end of my warranty period (next April) and the car is soon to go into limited hibernation for the winter I thought I would see if the general break in of the car had improved it. Nope, even at 21,000 miles it was still there and bugged the heck out of me.

So I sent a link to this thread to my SA and made sure that they knew I wasn't talking about normal driving 1-2 shifts, but high rpm shifts. They had me bring the car in and take the shop foreman for a drive so that I could demonstrate it to him. And of course I promptly ripped off 8+ flawless runs (I have found that if it shifts well the first time it will continue well for subsequent runs and if it won't go the first time it most likely will continue to fail).

At the least I got confirmation from the shop foreman that my technique for shifting was not the issue. He thought I was doing everything in that regards OK.

As luck (?) would have it I had a sensor go bad the next week so I had to take the car back in for that. When I dropped it off I told them that the evening after I demoed the car I had the shift failure happen again. I told them to just keep the car for a few days and for either my SA or the shop foreman to drive it home, on errands, whatever, for a few days and to do 0-60 runs every time they drive it. (Yes, that makes me a little edgy but at this point I wanted this fixed).

And lo and behold it happened to the shop foreman. At that point they knew the problem was legit and that it wasn't from my doing a bad shift. They called the engineers in Germany. The engineers said they had never heard of this as an issue with early 08 cars but as a "courtesy" they would replace my transmission. Supposedly I make only the second transmission replacement in the USA.

Unfortunately since I've gotten the car back I haven't had as many chances to drive it as I would like (the weather has turned rotten) but I have tried about 10-12 0-60 runs on different days and so far it has performed flawlessly. This is finally the car I thought I was buying 3.5 years ago! (And, yes I was told that the initial break in period of the car is for the engine and that the new tranny was good to go).

A side note for any other 08 M3 owners: I asked for them to replace the clutch while they were doing the transmission replacement. Only 21k miles on it but since they were going to have it all the way apart anyways and the clutch kit was only $470 I figured I might as well start with a new clutch too. When they got everything apart they found out that a new clutch kit won't work on our cars. They changed the flywheel somewhere along the way. So when you eventually need a new clutch you'll have to get a new flywheel too. They inspected my current clutch, said it looked good and put it back in.

[chris719]

Curious to see if it happens again with your new transmission. It's funny that they claim to have never heard of 1-2 shift grinding issues, because as far I can tell, this problem exists to varying degrees in the E46 M3, Z4M, and E9x M3.


I can't speak to the M3 but when this happened in my Z4M it was also possible to trigger it if you shifted at low RPM. You felt the stick move into position but just did not engage correctly and made a very loud grinding noise that is worse than your typical beat-the-synchro grind.

[robb7979]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Where do these old wives tales come from? Skipping gears has no impact on the transmission when done properly. I've got over 1-million miles of skipping gears with no ill effects. Around town I do 1-3 pretty often when I'm in no hurry. Going the other way I might jump from 6th to 3d if I really need to hot-foot it.

Any resistance going from first to second in a healthy transmission is due to mismatch of engine and tranny speed. For instance, if you gently accelerate to 5000 rpm in first and then shift to second, the engine speed will need to drop to around 3000. There'll be resistance if you try to push it in at 4000 or wait until 2000 rpm.

If you go up to 2000 rpm and do the shift and wait a full second, that might cause resistance, but shouldn't result in a grind.

Dave

Absolutely correct. In addition, if you can rev match nicely, you don't even need to clutch to shift. Not that I do it, but just one of the things my dad taught me about manuals. As well as double clutching, which I do do. Nothing like that double thump when you get used to it.

[rye m3]

I am very surprised, rather stunned, to hear that yours is only the second tranny replacement in the US. I've certainly read at least one other poster that had the tranny replaced after several complaints.

I join the other members that are very capable manual drivers that have issues with the M3. My E36 M3 was a manual and I've had manuals for over 30 years. My '64 VW Bug had a better shift. The 997 could be stiff going into 2nd when it is cold, but you never feel a grind of the gears. I admit that after 4000 miles, it has lessened. And I find that if you shift over 4k, the chance decreases. If I shift below that, I have an issue almost every time. Every other gear is fine, but 2nd is just a problem. Even as this gets better, this is a very disappointing issue.

Oh, personally, I've never done a shift at redline from 1st to 2nd. Given the way it shifts, I'm not eager to really hammer the syncros.

[Krozi]

One thing I do have to say is that after you drive the shit out of your car, the shifting gets so smooth. The harder you drive the car, the better the shifting gets. So do a burnout.

[Titanium Silver]

Starting to let clutch out early after shifting to 2nd?

If it happens very rarely it could be user error.

[Sdao68]

My transmission was replaced in my old 08 e92 at about 12000 miles for 1-2 shift grind, dealer replaced trans without any question.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Titanium Silver

Starting to let clutch out early after shifting to 2nd?

If it happens very rarely it could be user error.

I'm pretty sure it happens before the clutch is let out at all.

[rye m3]

Believe it or not, no chance of user error. I've missed shifts, of course, but never had the gears grind in any car on a normal shift except this one. I keep coming back on this because it is such a bummer on such a nice car. It is interesting to comment on shifting technique, because you wouldn't even find such a thread on a forum on any other car that I know of (I guess there were comments about Corvette issues from someone).

[e92_m3]

Grinding from 1st to 2nd at high RPM's is a very common problem with the current (e90, e92) m3's.

It happens most of the time for me as well whenever I shift rather quickly from 1st to 2nd.

There's a lot of threads on grinding. Its just very disappointing since it always happens on such a nice car like the m3.

[The Flying Scotsman]

Put a SSK with DSSR! I cannot speak for everyone's problem's because they could be very different.

I used to have the same issue but after installing the SSK with DSSR it completely went away. The stock shifter can sometimes get dirt inside it and mess with its mechanics. Even when pulling away at a light and trying to put the shifter into 1st was difficult. I would have move the shifter in and out of neutral several times before it would actually go into 1st gear. This did not happen too many times but I do remember it happening.

Another issue that it could be is from trying to shift too fast before the clutch is engaged and damaging your sync's. After time, this issue will only get worse.

[rye m3]

Well, after plowing through all 13 pages of the thread, even here several people have had transmissions replaced. I noticed one thing from post 75, I believe. It referenced a Puma case number on the transmission replacement from his dealer. Need to Google what a Puma case is. From the limited number of people that have had replacements, all have had very positive results. At one point in the thread 10 people were willing to sign a letter to BMW, but I guess the interest waned. I'm likely to push for a replacement.

[rye m3]

Indeed, the definition:
Problem and Measures management Aftersales or in German: Problem und Mebnahmenmanagement Aftersales.
Seems that BMW specifically addressed the issue with tranny replacement. Hopefully a BMW tech on the board can look up the PuMA case and give feedback.

[Hephaesta]

I've had a chance since my post to do 3 more tests of the new tranny and it is performing brilliantly. With over 15 tests and no failures it is by far outperforming the original tranny. I've also noticed that it does that high rpm shift much smoother than the original tranny did even when it didn't grind.

With over 25 years experience driving manuals I am confident that the error was not my shifting technique. Plus when it did start happening to me I paid close attention to my technique. Never mattered.

[rye m3]

Mine shifted brilliantly today. Still wondering about that PUMA case file from post 75. Hoping a BMW tech can look it up.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by rye m3

Mine shifted brilliantly today. Still wondering about that PUMA case file from post 75. Hoping a BMW tech can look it up.

Will this help at all ===>CLICK

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by Sdao68

My transmission was replaced in my old 08 e92 at about 12000 miles for 1-2 shift grind, dealer replaced trans without any question.

Was there some type of BMW internal notification or did you need to take them on a test drive and grind the hell out of it though a series of 1-2 shifts to get the dealer to replace the tranny?