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      02-02-2018, 09:48 PM   #1
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E9x vs Kia stinger

Noticed there was only a couple older threads on here about this car. Having seen it in person I was underwhelmed visually. Not my taste at all. However it has ties to BMW M

"The design comes from Audi and Lamborghini veteran Peter Schreyer, whom Kia hired about a decade ago. The stuff that counts comes from Albert Biermann, the former VP of engineering at BMW M, poached away to oversee performance car development for the entire Hyundai Motor Group. In other words, the Stinger’s pedigree is legit; it was made by people who know what they’re doing. Namely, Germans"

https://jalopnik.com/the-2018-kia-st...eal-1822643041


There are 4cyl and 6cyl both turbo options as well as rwd and awd options on both. To me even the 6 cyl turbo is underpowered at 365hp for a nearly 50k price tag with options and heavy at over 3800 lbs. Certainly not proven either. Being as it's a twin turbo v6 assuming the engine holds and a tuner figures out the ECU I'm sure there is more power to be had. Probably in the 400-420hp range.

Curious what the rest of the community thinks about our new competition.

Last edited by eatsleepboost; 02-03-2018 at 05:53 AM..
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      02-03-2018, 09:03 AM   #2
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I don't think Stinger GT is meant to be an M competitor. I've sat in one, and I was impressed with the quality. Certainly more value than what you get from 340i. It is a competent daily driver that is in real world likely faster than e90/92 M3 (due to more compliant suspension, good mid-low range torque...etc).
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      02-03-2018, 11:03 AM   #3
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For a new sporty car with a 10 year warranty it’s a pretty good deal. I like the AWD option. However, I’d probably still take the $40-50k and put it towards a used car even if I had to add a bit more money to the mix.
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      02-03-2018, 11:35 AM   #4
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Them poaching Biermann was a great move. I read an article about how unlike the other major car manufacturing companies S. Korea has no motorsports heritage to draw upon for inspiration for their high performance vehicles. Outsourcing it to the man who captured the magic for so many years at ///M was clever.


As mentioned above this vehicle is primarily competing with the 340i, which it bests as a value proposition. There have been some QC concerns mainly cheap interior plastics, transmission tunnel will wobble side to side and creak if you shake it, etc.. Also it's quite stiff for a daily driver which is why I think some decent adaptive dampers would go a long way for the Stinger to be what it should be.
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      02-03-2018, 11:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkfastwagon View Post
I don't think Stinger GT is meant to be an M competitor. I've sat in one, and I was impressed with the quality. Certainly more value than what you get from 340i. It is a competent daily driver that is in real world likely faster than e90/92 M3 (due to more compliant suspension, good mid-low range torque...etc).
The KIA Stinger GT faster than our ///M3 with the S65 V8 engine is not possible !
The KIA runs from 0-60 in 5 sec. The ///M3E92 with DCT in 4.3 sec.
Don't forget that the S65 with removed topspeed limiter runs 200 mph...

On the other hand ... The new KIA Stinger GT is impressive !
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      03-31-2018, 09:01 AM   #6
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I recently drove an AWD Stinger. I had been invited to drive the car by the manager at the Kia dealership. I found it to be a pleasant car to drive. The interior was on the sporty side of comfortable. The car was very fast and handled well.

And then I left and continued searching for an E92 M3.

Why? Well, while the car was fast, it was a “one-note” kind of fast. Floor it, transmission kicks down, car speeds up, done. The paddle shifted auto was competent but performance driving quickly revealed it wasn’t designed to kick ass on a road course like the DCT.

Overall, the car lacks character. There was nothing there that made me want to get in and drive for no reason at all. This is a luxury/performance commuter car. Plus, it looks like an Optima with a body kit, even though it’s allegedly a “clean sheet” design.

The salesman who rode with me (it’s one of those dealerships that give you the “insurance rules require that I drive it off the lot” bs) was furious that I didn’t buy the car. He had snaked the test drive away from another salesman and I think he had bragged to the others he was going to show them how to close a deal. When I started listing my dislikes on the car he said I was trying to pick the car apart. No kidding, it’s my money. I said I didn’t see anything there worth the money, and he responded with “hey it’s up for car of the year!”

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      03-31-2018, 10:22 PM   #7
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It's more of an S4, 340i competitor. I thought this Car Throttle review and assessment of the Stinger was excellent:
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      04-01-2018, 02:40 PM   #8
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Kia FTW LMAO !!!

19 Years ago I had a Red Kia Sportage 1999 AWD

Kia has definitely come a long way since then. The new Kia Stinger is a big step up from what we are used to seeing.

Not an M3 replacement but definitely and nice daily driver on the other hand.

Last edited by MTrezzz; 04-02-2018 at 08:27 AM..
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      04-02-2018, 10:24 AM   #9
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It's not an M3 competitor. I think people will cross-shop this with the regular 3-series, Q50, S4, etc. It's basically trying to offer 340i performance/features for less money.

It looks like a fun family sedan. Hoon it a bit on the onramps, maybe some fun backroads drives, and win a few stoplight drag races. People aren't buying this for the track. AWD is available for people who need to drive in bad weather. If you need a DD that isn't a total yawnfest it fits that bill nicely.

I think the sweet-spot is the twin-turbo V6, RWD, and not the highest-end trim. This keeps the price well under $50k but still gives you all of the performance.
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      04-03-2018, 01:46 PM   #10
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Saw it in person at the auto show and all I can say is ugly imo. Cannot compare a m3 to that car in any way. I would find a better car for that money. Would not spend it on a kia lol...
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      04-03-2018, 04:06 PM   #11
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Hey guys thought I'd shine in if anyone is interested in Kia. Even before the test drive started, it was obvious that visibility from the driver's seat is seriously confined, nearly Camaro bad. This is true both front and rear end. Power boost when in full sport is there and acceleration is strong. Suspension is as bad as the visibility. For $35k base gt is not a bad option for a new car.

Last edited by InControl; 04-03-2018 at 08:35 PM..
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      04-03-2018, 09:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowm3 View Post
Saw it in person at the auto show and all I can say is ugly imo. Cannot compare a m3 to that car in any way. I would find a better car for that money. Would not spend it on a kia lol...
What's a better car that has a twin turbo V6, RWD, & 4 door? Don't tell me about reliability. I've had 3 generations of M3s. I love M3s but they are far from being reliable car. BMWs are far from reliable. German cars continue to score the at the very bottom in JD Powers reliability surveys.



Full Disclosure. I work for Kia Motors America as a District Manager.
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      04-03-2018, 09:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dr. Dre View Post
What's a better car that has a twin turbo V6, RWD, & 4 door? Don't tell me about reliability. I've had 3 generations of M3s. I love M3s but they are far from being reliable car. BMWs are far from reliable. German cars continue to score the at the very bottom in JD Powers reliability surveys.



Full Disclosure. I work for Kia Motors America as a District Manager.
Like the other guy said, there's no comparison between stinger and m3. Drive one and you'll get it. thanks
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      04-04-2018, 10:49 AM   #14
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Kia (and Hyundai for that matter) will never have a soul. There is no heritage, there is no source of innovative pride within the company because the entire founding principles of those types of companies are to copy everyone else in the ways that matter to average ignorant consumers, while cutting corners everywhere else in order to offer competitive prices. They prey on idiots who only care about electronic gizmos and driving aids like lane-assist, throw some cheap leather in the car, and undercut the market. That's their strategy.

That's not to say that BMW hasn't lost their way to a certain degree - most of their cars are wayyyyyy too soft these days and cater to the same ignorant consumers as Kia except that these consumers are willing to blow more money.

Regardless, we are in an age where many people are dumb and lease everything because staying in perpetual payments and being middle class forever is apparently the cool thing to do. So if we're comparing brand new cars (which we are here), why the hell would you take a Stinger over something like a 340 or an Audi for a lease? Anything less than 50,000 miles on the odo and the BMW is doing just fine. They don't live perpetually in repair shops like everyone wants to think.

Let's say you want to actually buy - there is a lot of markup on brand new cars and it's ever-increasing. Chances are you're going to look for something used. Ok let's say the Stinger is 43k used if it's 50k brand new. Do you realize how much MORE car you can get for 43k in the used market? If reliability is your thing, there are plenty of Lexus options that will compete all day with a Stinger in terms of power and performance, too.

You can get a used F8x these days for mid 40's in the 2015 models, and the 2016+ isn't far behind. With like 20k miles which is nothing, really.

To any savvy consumer who also cares about cars at all, in no way would they ever buy a Stinger over an M3.
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      04-04-2018, 11:41 AM   #15
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Like the other guy said, there's no comparison between stinger and m3. Drive one and you'll get it. thanks

Your comment doesn't make sense. I have driven both. I've driven every generation of the M3. The Stinger is not that far off.
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      04-04-2018, 11:45 AM   #16
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Kia (and Hyundai for that matter) will never have a soul. There is no heritage, there is no source of innovative pride within the company because the entire founding principles of those types of companies are to copy everyone else in the ways that matter to average ignorant consumers, while cutting corners everywhere else in order to offer competitive prices. They prey on idiots who only care about electronic gizmos and driving aids like lane-assist, throw some cheap leather in the car, and undercut the market. That's their strategy.

That's not to say that BMW hasn't lost their way to a certain degree - most of their cars are wayyyyyy too soft these days and cater to the same ignorant consumers as Kia except that these consumers are willing to blow more money.

Regardless, we are in an age where many people are dumb and lease everything because staying in perpetual payments and being middle class forever is apparently the cool thing to do. So if we're comparing brand new cars (which we are here), why the hell would you take a Stinger over something like a 340 or an Audi for a lease? Anything less than 50,000 miles on the odo and the BMW is doing just fine. They don't live perpetually in repair shops like everyone wants to think.

Let's say you want to actually buy - there is a lot of markup on brand new cars and it's ever-increasing. Chances are you're going to look for something used. Ok let's say the Stinger is 43k used if it's 50k brand new. Do you realize how much MORE car you can get for 43k in the used market? If reliability is your thing, there are plenty of Lexus options that will compete all day with a Stinger in terms of power and performance, too.

You can get a used F8x these days for mid 40's in the 2015 models, and the 2016+ isn't far behind. With like 20k miles which is nothing, really.

To any savvy consumer who also cares about cars at all, in no way would they ever buy a Stinger over an M3.

I don't even know where to start. Show me where you can get an F8x with 20k miles for the mid 40's. You made some shit up and posted. My good friend is about to turn his lease F8x with almost 50k miles. I wanted to buy and the dealership was still asking $40k. Show me one example of an F8x on the market with 20K miles for that price.

I bet you can't.

It's better to lease a car based on the fact that it's a depreciating asset. You have no idea what you're taking about. You would take a Kia over a BMW because it represents a better value. Do your really think an F8x M3 is worth $90k. You've got to be kidding me. They take what is a basic car and add a bunch of stuff. That turbo charged straight 6 is nothing special. Any manufacturer can design and build that engine. Even the e90 V8 is really nothing special. I'll give BMW credit for building it.

Why is it that you can pick up these German high performance car on the cheap after only a few years. It because people know they are not very reliable and cost a shit ton to maintain and repair if they break.

Last edited by Dr. Dre; 04-04-2018 at 11:58 AM..
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      04-04-2018, 11:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Dre View Post
I don't even know where to start. Show me where you can get an F8x with 20k miles for the mid 40's. You made some shit up and posted. My good friend is about to turn his lease F8x with almost 50k miles. I wanted to buy and the dealership was still asking $40k. Show me one example of an F8x on the market with 20K miles for that price.

I bet you can't.
Are you kidding me dude? I don't just make stuff up flippantly and post. Get your head out of your ass. You don't know me, and I don't really care that you're some district manager of Kia somewhere - just because you're "in the car business" doesn't mean the rest of us don't know our shit.

Literally a 2 minute search on Autotrader shows plenty of cars with roughly 20k miles from 2015 that you can reasonably get for mid 40's. When I see a car with a price tag of 46-48k, you can absolutely assume that you can get that car for 45-46k, which is "mid 40's". In fact anything between 43 - 47k could be considered mid 40's.

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      04-04-2018, 12:07 PM   #18
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Are you kidding me dude? I don't just make stuff up flippantly and post. Get your head out of your ass. You don't know me, and I don't really care that you're some district manager of Kia somewhere - just because you're "in the car business" doesn't mean the rest of us don't know our shit.

Literally a 2 minute search on Autotrader shows plenty of cars with roughly 20k miles from 2015 that you can reasonably get for mid 40's. When I see a car with a price tag of 46-48k, you can absolutely assume that you can get that car for 45-46k, which is "mid 40's". In fact anything between 43 - 47k could be considered mid 40's.


Ok. tail between legs regarding pricing. I stand by everything else. Your attitude regarding people lease cars shows your ignorance. You made a lot of assumptions and statements calling people dumb ass because they lease. I bet most of the people on these forums purchased their M3s used and leasing would not be an option.

Everyone knows that financially it makes more sense to lease a car than to purchase a depreciating asset.

Go ahead. Give me reason why an F8x is worth $90k?
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      04-04-2018, 12:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Dre View Post
I don't even know where to start. Show me where you can get an F8x with 20k miles for the mid 40's. You made some shit up and posted. My good friend is about to turn his lease F8x with almost 50k miles. I wanted to buy and the dealership was still asking $40k. Show me one example of an F8x on the market with 20K miles for that price.

I bet you can't.

It's better to lease a car based on the fact that it's a depreciating asset. You have no idea what you're taking about. You would take a Kia over a BMW because it presents a better value. Do your really think an F8x M3 is worth $90k. You've got to be kidding me. They take what is a basic car and add a bunch of stuff. That turbo charged straight 6 is nothing special. Any manufacturer can design and build that engine. Even the e90 V8 is really nothing special. I'll give BMW credit for building it.
I was not talking about leasing or even buying a brand new M3/M4. I said for brand new cars, as a lease comparison, it makes more sense to just get something like a 340.

If you want a brand new car, then your net worth should be enough that it doesn't matter if you buy it. The problem is you're arguing for people having brand new cars beyond their means, which leads people to leasing. And it has unfortunately helped to drive the overall cost of new cars up - manufacturers can do whatever they want with pricing because people are dumb enough to lease cars for ridiculous payments.

It's always more cost effective to just buy a used car outright and repair it over time, until your net worth and actual wealth can afford you the ability to buy a brand new nice car without caring about depreciation.

Delayed gratification could go a long ways.

You know literally nothing about how to properly own/buy a vehicle other than to throw people (your average Kia customer) hurdling into financial oblivion and permanent middle-class fuckery with perpetual lease payments.
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      04-04-2018, 12:16 PM   #20
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also I am 100% with you that 90k for an M3/M4 brand new right now is ridiculous - but again, a lot of that inflation in price over time can be looked at from a standpoint of people are ready and willing to lease at very high payments because they don't have 2 pennies to rub together and they live their entire lives on pure cash flow. This is just how the system has manifested itself over time. It is what it is. That doesn't mean that leasing is a good idea, lol.

As an overall value proposition I think you can get a LOT more new car for 90k than what an M3/M4 gives you.

I did buy my M3 used, absolutely. I also own it outright, and honestly I could just write a check for a brand new M4 for 90k - I choose not to because while I have means and money, I'm not SO wealthy yet that I could justify the depreciation. But leasing? Lol, all day and I bet a lot of other people here could too. I could go out and lease a brand new 911 turbo today if I wanted to. Even a $3000 lease payment would not break me in the least. That is a literal fraction of what I make each month.

This is the problem - people in society today just assume that everyone always has to or is driving exactly the height of what their financial means would allow. That's a pretty broad assumption and I don't think it is very accurate.
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      04-04-2018, 12:43 PM   #21
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I was not talking about leasing or even buying a brand new M3/M4. I said for brand new cars, as a lease comparison, it makes more sense to just get something like a 340.

If you want a brand new car, then your net worth should be enough that it doesn't matter if you buy it. The problem is you're arguing for people having brand new cars beyond their means, which leads people to leasing. And it has unfortunately helped to drive the overall cost of new cars up - manufacturers can do whatever they want with pricing because people are dumb enough to lease cars for ridiculous payments.

It's always more cost effective to just buy a used car outright and repair it over time, until your net worth and actual wealth can afford you the ability to buy a brand new nice car without caring about depreciation.

Delayed gratification could go a long ways.

You know literally nothing about how to properly own/buy a vehicle other than to throw people (your average Kia customer) hurdling into financial oblivion and permanent middle-class fuckery with perpetual lease payments.

Government regulations has had more to do with driving manufacturing cost than people leasing.

How did you determine that people are living beyond their means? Who are you to make that determination?

Did you really say that it's more cost effective to buy a used car repair it over time.

So you're saying that people should continue to put money into something that continues to depreciate while the cost to repair and maintain it continues to increase.

Tell that to the guys who bought used E9x M3s that no longer has the factory warranty and the rod bearings failed which destroyed the engine. I'm sure it made more financial sense to buy as used engine and pay $10-$15k for a car that might be worth $20-$30k. That makes more sense than leasing a brand new car.


You want to bash Kia/ Hyundai. Really, because it make more sense to go buy a used M3 than an brand new Optima.

Go talk to financial planner and ask which makes more sense.
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      04-04-2018, 01:01 PM   #22
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Because statistically the majority of people ARE living beyond their means. Consumer debt is at an all-time high across the board. So all I have to do is look at the ever-increasing percentage of leased cars vs. bought cars, and it is woefully obvious that most of those people have NO business furthering their strain by having monthly payments on something.

I did say it's more cost effective. I daily an E46 wagon that I bought for 4k and put no more than a couple thousand into to refresh it for the next 100k miles. I 100% guarantee you that car costs less over the next 3 years than any lease for a 50k car. The lease payments alone will outweigh the costs of my cheaper, used E46 by literally thousands. I feel like you are missing my point that people should be buying cheaper used cars until they can reasonably not care about the check they write to pay cash for a nicer used car or an even nicer brand new car.

As for M3 running costs - again I have to direct you back to my original comparison of Kia Stinger to a 340, not an M3. And in the used market, I specifically talked about Lexus, not BMW M3. All I said in regards to M3 was that nobody is going to cross-shop a Kia Stinger. I do not see an M3 as a daily driven car. Even for those who daily their M3, the percentage of blown motors is ridiculously low. You can't take something that reasonably impacts LESS than 1% of owners (catastrophic engine failure) and use that as a standard to try and justify a claim about how expensive the car is to maintain used and out of warranty.

I briefly touched on the fact that for mid 40's you can get an F8x, though, and if we want to consider that in the equation - where are all the major issues with those? I have yet to hear of any widespread critical engine failures that are anything other than anomalies. Hell at the mileage you could get a warranty with it if you want for another 70k miles and still be in a good spot, if that's really the car you want to drive.

Financial planners are like any other group of people - a few winners and a whole lot of losers. I already know the good ones which is why I own a bunch of real estate and a couple of businesses. It's why I don't have to put money into a shitty 401k like most "financial planners" would tell you to do. Oh, even then, I've never ever met ANY financial planner who thinks leasing is a smarter idea than buying a cheaper used car, lol.
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