Another one bites the dust! Value of M3 with a blown engine?

[i_love_cars]

Unfortunate news. I remember seeing this car at one of our local BMWCCA car shows a few years ago right after you bought it.

Personally, as long as everything else on the car was still in good order, no rust, etc. I would just replace the motor. Different strokes and all that but for me, I always make sure I have the cash set aside for a replacement motor (although I did just do RBs when i supercharged) because for this type of car, there's just nothing you're going to get that compares for a reasonable price point compared to the cost of replacing the motor. 6MT, high revving V8, pretty nice interior, hydraulic steering, RWD....there is literally nothing on the market that ticks the boxes unless you're willing to spend like 50k.

My advice for any M3 owner who loves their car is to keep 10-15k just sitting around in an interest-bearing account for the rainy day of your motor grenading. And if the car makes it to 200k and you get rid of it, then you've got 10-15k to put towards a new car.

Good luck.

[Dr. Dre]

I hope mine are good. I had mined done at MRF Engineerings. He said he has a client that replaces his bearings after every racing season so essentially every year.

He said the bearings he replaced out of this car had zero wear.

[timothy2001]

Originally Posted by donadio91

Well at 154k on stock bearings you guys are starting to make me worry.

This is why most refer to this as a gamble.

Using butt dyno/chainsaw math, not every engine will grenade but the odds are there that it's likely or at least a higher occurrence than a similar mechanical failure.

We are all aware of the issue, real or perceived and it's completely up to us to either do the replacement or roll the dice.

Not a lack of empathy or even sympathy but we know the drill.

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

I hope mine are good. I had mined done at MRF Engineerings. He said he has a client that replaces his bearings after every racing season so essentially every year.

He said the bearings he replaced out of this car had zero wear.

Why haven't they been posted on this site? Malek@MRF
Can you put up some images of the bearings Dre is referring to?

[jcolley]

$14k seems pretty high for a used engine installed. Like really high.

Engine out and back in is about 3-4 hours in either direction with a table lift and experience. Not really seeing where all the rest of that goes unless we're talking a dealership.

[jasonrp15]

Damn so sorry for that situation. I was always under the impression that most E90s M3s that passed the 80k miles mark are usually ok as most failures occurred before that mark. I had mine replaced at 113k miles out of reassurance. I think most people look at it like your only paying for peace of mind and not a HP upgrade and tend to push it off until its too late. I love my car and would definitely fix or get another e92.

[anerbe]

Sorry to hear!

Can you post all your oil analysis reports? Did you change sample labs in the middle?

In general, if you are trending higher than average lead readings every oil change, you definitely need to change rod bearings. That lead each report is coming from some parts that shouldn't be wearing like that. Once you start hitting cooper, you are really in the lottery.

Good luck with your decision

[pjk380]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Why haven't they been posted on this site? Malek@MRF
Can you put up some images of the bearings Dre is referring to?

Not sure if this is the client Dre is referring too, but the link below shows VAC coated bearings that Malek inspected after 33,500 miles with no wear.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=vac

[neilum]

Sucks to hear, truly unfortunate.

If a ~$14K repair bill will ruin you, then I would agree get this done asap. I would also say if a repair bill like that will in fact rock your world, you probably shouldn't own a car like this. Thirdly, if the odds of RB blowing are truly less than 1%, its actually not the smartest to proactively change them.


So despite this forums opinion this guy is an idiot for not doing it, that is probably not the case. He's probably just really unlucky.

Talk to an actuary if you know one to understand this more. If the odds are truly <1%, it makes little sense to spend $2500 to save a potential $14000 loss. The real problem is understanding the true odds. There is no way to know for sure how many times this has occurred. We can do some easy math and say there are about 36K E90x M3's made?

So out of that number 360 motors have blown because of this?

I guess it comes down to your financial situation and your educated guess on the real % of impacted cars. I'd lean towards 1-2% being about right, and rolling the dice is the best move.

This is a $70K car at the end of the day, you're in this game whether you paid the initial price or not.

[pbonsalb]

No one here buys life insurance, right? The chance of dying prematurely is less than 1%.

My car was $45k used 8 years ago. It is worth only $20k today, and it would rock my world if I had a $14k repair bill. I would actually change the motor myself but would likely pay $8k for a good used one, change the bolts and bearings, and have $9k in the job.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by neilum

Sucks to hear, truly unfortunate.

If a ~$14K repair bill will ruin you, then I would agree get this done asap. I would also say if a repair bill like that will in fact rock your world, you probably shouldn't own a car like this. Thirdly, if the odds of RB blowing are truly less than 1%, its actually not the smartest to proactively change them.


So despite this forums opinion this guy is an idiot for not doing it, that is probably not the case. He's probably just really unlucky.

Talk to an actuary if you know one to understand this more. If the odds are truly <1%, it makes little sense to spend $2500 to save a potential $14000 loss. The real problem is understanding the true odds. There is no way to know for sure how many times this has occurred. We can do some easy math and say there are about 36K E90x M3's made?

So out of that number 360 motors have blown because of this?

I guess it comes down to your financial situation and your educated guess on the real % of impacted cars. I'd lean towards 1-2% being about right, and rolling the dice is the best move.

This is a $70K car at the end of the day, you're in this game whether you paid the initial price or not.

<1%. I bet the OP wished he had spent the $2500.

[PACarGuy]

Hopefully I have this right, but since I'm not an actuary, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you look at from an Expected Value point of view, the Expected Value of an insurance policy = [Probability of dying]*[Payoff of dying] + [Probability of living]*[Payoff for living]. In other words EV = [Pdying]*[Value of life insurance policy] + [Pliving]*[Insurance premium].

In this case, the Expected Value of a rod bearing job is [Probability of bearing failure]*[payoff of bearing failure, or avoided cost for a new engine] + [Probability of no failure]*[Payoff of no failure, or cost of a RB replacement].

Assuming 2% RB failure rate, EV of a RB replacement is then = [2%]*[$14,000] +[98%]*[-$2300] = -$1,974.
Seems like an actuary would tell you not to get a RB replacement, at least in any single year.

However, as with an insurance policy, the chance of RB failure doesn't stay constant mile after mile and year after year. It likely increases as more wear happens (as it does with humans, LOL). The Expected Value (assuming cost of new engine is ~$14K) becomes positive if you assume the failure rate goes to 15%. If you figure the cost of a new engine is more than $14K (let's say $20K), then the failure rate only has to go to ~10% before the EV is positive.

Ultimately people buy life insurance due to risk aversion. Same applies here.

[Impervious]

If I get enough people to contribute $500 per year I will personally insure your car from RB failure.

[codinge90]

I'm laughing at how many people are astonished that OP had stock bearings at 122k. Do people not understand that these cars have been around for over 10 years and a lot of people daily their cars meaning there is a probably high percentage of m3's with 100k+ miles and stock bearings since the majority of owners are not on these forums and don't change their bearings. Yes, bearing issues exist but don't bash OP for not changing the bearings lol, it's not like the rate of failure increases to 20% after a certain mileage.

[zstreet86]

Search for user "The Red Baron", he's parting out an e90 m3. I bought all the suspension parts off of it for my e91, but he said he still has the motor and tranny he'd let go for 6500. Car was hit on the side while parked.

Not that it matters, but I just bought an 08 e90 with 78k miles on it a couple weeks ago. The original owner, like you, was in disbelief about the whole rod bearing thing. I parked the car until I took it in to have the bearings replaced the following week. They were heavily worn and NEEDED replaced even though the car was babied by previous owner and is mint despite the mileage. As mentioned above, it would have only been a matter of time. Now I am driving the car worry free.

Thanks for sharing your story. Good luck.

[hockey21]

Threads like this make me feel less bad about 700 per Month to lease an f80.... sorry to hear

[OneSickM]

Originally Posted by jasonrp15

Damn so sorry for that situation. I was always under the impression that most E90s M3s that passed the 80k miles mark are usually ok as most failures occurred before that mark. I had mine replaced at 113k miles out of reassurance. I think most people look at it like your only paying for peace of mind and not a HP upgrade and tend to push it off until its too late. I love my car and would definitely fix or get another e92.

Exactly my thoughts! However, it seems that's not the case anymore. Now since we are seeing more 100K+ joined the club, we started to see more failures as well

[Spun Crankhub]

Originally Posted by timothy2001

Hate reading this........I agree with the above posts in the $6k to $10k range.

I would take Boofs advice but then again I might just be done with it at that point.

Good luck to you.

I would like to offer $6k for the car right now.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by codinge90

I'm laughing at how many people are astonished that OP had stock bearings at 122k. Do people not understand that these cars have been around for over 10 years and a lot of people daily their cars meaning there is a probably high percentage of m3's with 100k+ miles and stock bearings since the majority of owners are not on these forums and don't change their bearings. Yes, bearing issues exist but don't bash OP for not changing the bearings lol, it's not like the rate of failure increases to 20% after a certain mileage.

The OP has been a member since 2015. He even stated that he felt it wouldn't happen to him. Well it did. Now he basically has a giant paper weight.

[wbM3]

Originally Posted by codinge90

I'm laughing at how many people are astonished that OP had stock bearings at 122k. Do people not understand that these cars have been around for over 10 years and a lot of people daily their cars meaning there is a probably high percentage of m3's with 100k+ miles and stock bearings since the majority of owners are not on these forums and don't change their bearings. Yes, bearing issues exist but don't bash OP for not changing the bearings lol, it's not like the rate of failure is 20%.

I'm mostly astonished a person ON this forum would risk it well past 100K. If you've been on here any bit of time you've seen the pictures. Much like the RS4 if you can't afford $2K+ maintenance bills then maybe a V8 super saloon is not car for you. We don't really know what percentage of cars have high mileage at this point so the data is incomplete. The majority of cars I've seen for sale over the last year with higher miles have been just approaching the century mark.

[timothy2001]

Originally Posted by TacoChris

I would like to offer $6k for the car right now.

Perfect, there’s the first bid. Let’s see if it will crack $10k. Not bad for a paperweight.

OP, would really like to know what you decide to do and how you make out.

[Redd]

You guys are getting screwed on labor in the States. I pay $800 to change rod bearings here in Malaysia, parts and labour included.