VAC Coated Rod Bearings, A FULL engine teardown after 39,500 Miles. Look inside!

jdamore · 01-02-2015, 04:06 PM

If only we had someone willing to devote a motor for testing... Let's me know if this is stupid haha! Build the motor with 2 cylinders completely OEM, 2 with ARP bolts/OEM bearings, 2 with VAC bearings/OEM bolts, and 2 with ARP Bolts /VAC bearings.

Don't beat me up.. My idea would be for a test if it would even be possible. Who's willing to devote a motor?

L4ces · 01-02-2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdamore

If only we had someone willing to devote a motor for testing... Let's me know if this is stupid haha! Build the motor with 2 cylinders completely OEM, 2 with ARP bolts/OEM bearings, 2 with VAC bearings/OEM bolts, and 2 with ARP Bolts /VAC bearings.

Don't beat me up.. My idea would be for a test if it would even be possible. Who's willing to devote a motor?

Even if your idea is deemed bad, you should get an A for effort or for just thinking out of the box.

wrecklessfool · 01-02-2015, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdamore

If only we had someone willing to devote a motor for testing... Let's me know if this is stupid haha! Build the motor with 2 cylinders completely OEM, 2 with ARP bolts/OEM bearings, 2 with VAC bearings/OEM bolts, and 2 with ARP Bolts /VAC bearings.

Don't beat me up.. My idea would be for a test if it would even be possible. Who's willing to devote a motor?

Lol, this would take quite a bit of money and a whole motor and someone who could put miles on it pretty quickly too. Problem is that even on the same motor each rod bearing set may show different wear characteristics. Just something I have noticed and may not mean much but it always seems that if a bearing is chewed the f*%k up down PAST the copper it always seem to be cylinder 8. Maybe this is the case or maybe when I noticed it from a successive string of pics it just stuck in my head as such.

OM VT3 · 01-02-2015, 11:34 PM

Malek can you put properly sized wooden dowel rods in all the head bolt holes and take a picture?

jdamore · 01-03-2015, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L4ces

Even if your idea is deemed bad, you should get an A for effort or for just thinking out of the box.

lol. Thanks.. I'm only trying to figure out how the box is made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecklessfool

Lol, this would take quite a bit of money and a whole motor and someone who could put miles on it pretty quickly too. Problem is that even on the same motor each rod bearing set may show different wear characteristics. Just something I have noticed and may not mean much but it always seems that if a bearing is chewed the f*%k up down PAST the copper it always seem to be cylinder 8. Maybe this is the case or maybe when I noticed it from a successive string of pics it just stuck in my head as such.

Agreed. If statistics show cylinder 8 to be the worst case, based on the pics in the OP, I'd install ARP/VAC in cylinder 8 haha

Sorry if this has been discussed in other threads but, is there a trend/poll of which cylinder is the worst? If it is common on a certain cylinder, that would eliminate HUJAN's number 2 as a Sloppy lower-paid employee's only consistency is in inconsistency.

bigjae1976 · 01-03-2015, 12:53 AM

So who's gonna start the class action lawsuit?

aussiem3 · 01-03-2015, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

So who's gonna start the class action lawsuit?

pbonsalb · 01-03-2015, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdamore

If only we had someone willing to devote a motor for testing... Let's me know if this is stupid haha! Build the motor with 2 cylinders completely OEM, 2 with ARP bolts/OEM bearings, 2 with VAC bearings/OEM bolts, and 2 with ARP Bolts /VAC bearings.

Don't beat me up.. My idea would be for a test if it would even be possible. Who's willing to devote a motor?

It is not stupid -- just not very practical or realistic. No one is going to donate a motor. No one is going to risk a motor. No one is going to do all the work.

In a few years, there will be some data on the various options. Looks like the first Calico coated bearing motor has been opened up after some mileage. I have no plans to open mine up again until at least 5 years or 60k miles from now, but others drive more or abuse their motors more (track, forced induction).

///M Power-Belgium · 01-03-2015, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

So who's gonna start the class action lawsuit?

+ 1 !
Was reading(I think 3-4 weeks ago)comment from a lawyer and bmw owner ,thought it was in the blown engine thread,and he was saying ...to start a class action lawsuit ,and to make the necessary contacts .
Personal I think it's all....bla...bla..bla just BS and sadly that's it !

Malek@MRF · 01-03-2015, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecklessfool

Lol, this would take quite a bit of money and a whole motor and someone who could put miles on it pretty quickly too. Problem is that even on the same motor each rod bearing set may show different wear characteristics. Just something I have noticed and may not mean much but it always seems that if a bearing is chewed the f*%k up down PAST the copper it always seem to be cylinder 8. Maybe this is the case or maybe when I noticed it from a successive string of pics it just stuck in my head as such.

I have seen many engines damaged on the first journal (Cylinders 1 and 2), including my own. I don't think there is anything wrong particularly with the lubrication system on Cylinders 7 and 8. If we tried inferring a reason as to why we have seen so many on the final cylinders would be speculation unless the opportunity to measure and spec the engine out is given.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh

Malek can you put properly sized wooden dowel rods in all the head bolt holes and take a picture?

Purpose being?

OM VT3 · 01-03-2015, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

I have seen many engines damaged on the first journal (Cylinders 1 and 2), including my own. I don't think there is anything wrong particularly with the lubrication system on Cylinders 7 and 8. If we tried inferring a reason as to why we have seen so many on the final cylinders would be speculation unless the opportunity to measure and spec the engine out is given.

Purpose being?

Is will show me something I want to see

MFL · 01-03-2015, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh

Is will show me something I want to see

Dude does this for a living...feel free to indulge him a bit if you're asking a favor of him.

OM VT3 · 01-03-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFL

Dude does this for a living...feel free to indulge him a bit if you're asking a favor of him.

I know I'm asking a favor it would be much appreciated if it was done

Epoustouflant · 01-03-2015, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

So who's gonna start the class action lawsuit?

Seriously, we are getting to have enough cases and gathered evidence to move forward with a CAL.

Malek@MRF · 01-03-2015, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh

Is will show me something I want to see

Let me know what you are particularly looking for in detail and I can help you the best I can.

W Cole · 01-03-2015, 06:52 PM

So this is why he was parting his car. Makes sense now.

Malek@MRF · 01-03-2015, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W Cole

So this is why he was parting his car. Makes sense now.

Who?

Malek@MRF · 01-03-2015, 07:58 PM

Thread Update:

I have finalized full dis-assembly of my own engine. The results are poor.

Cylinder 1+2 suffered rod bearing failure. However, first MAIN journal has also failed. As a result, the block is cracked at the oil hole.

Cylinder 5+6 rod bolts under-torqued.

Every connecting rod bearing has very odd debris deposits visible in the pictures. The only 2 bearings that this cannot be verified is bearing 1+2, as the bearing is destroyed as well as the crankshaft.

Engine/Vehicle History:

2011 BMW M3 (E92)
6-Speed Manual Transmission
Engine is stock aside from exhaust system
Mileage 39,xxx
Oil Changes intervals every 5000 miles
Stock OE BMW Rod Bearings + Stock OE BMW connecting rod bolts

OM VT3 · 01-03-2015, 09:09 PM

How did you check for under tq and how many nm were they

FogCityM3 · 01-03-2015, 10:14 PM

Great work and interesting theory. This at least is a good starting point for collecting additional data on failed engines that were not considered previously and potentially to seek remediation from BMW if Theory #3 (bolt torquing) appears to be the culprit.

W Cole · 01-03-2015, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

Who?

The prior owner of this engine.

e92zero · 01-03-2015, 10:41 PM

that looks horrible. Any theory on which failed first? Rod or Main? And as the above poster asked, how do we check for under torqued bolts if you don't mind sharing the info?

01-02-2015, 04:06 PM	#111
jdamore Captain 436 Rep 856 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (4)	If only we had someone willing to devote a motor for testing... Let's me know if this is stupid haha! Build the motor with 2 cylinders completely OEM, 2 with ARP bolts/OEM bearings, 2 with VAC bearings/OEM bolts, and 2 with ARP Bolts /VAC bearings. Don't beat me up.. My idea would be for a test if it would even be possible. Who's willing to devote a motor? __________________ -- 08 JB e92 6MT ///M3 ESS VT2-625 --
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01-02-2015, 11:34 PM	#114
OM VT3 Lieutenant Colonel 140 Rep 1,665 Posts Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere iTrader: (1)	Malek can you put properly sized wooden dowel rods in all the head bolt holes and take a picture?
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01-03-2015, 12:53 AM	#116
bigjae1976 Major General 1580 Rep 8,077 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (22) Garage List 2004 BMW M3 [4.50] 2011 BMW E90 M3 [5.25] 2013 BMW 328i [5.00]	So who's gonna start the class action lawsuit? __________________ 2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red 2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
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01-03-2015, 06:52 PM	#126
W Cole Major 145 Rep 1,130 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Newport Coast, CA iTrader: (5)	So this is why he was parting his car. Makes sense now.
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01-03-2015, 07:58 PM	#128
Malek@MRF BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 732 Rep 3,735 Posts Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, G82 M4 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Irvine, California iTrader: (5)	Thread Update: I have finalized full dis-assembly of my own engine. The results are poor. Cylinder 1+2 suffered rod bearing failure. However, first MAIN journal has also failed. As a result, the block is cracked at the oil hole. Cylinder 5+6 rod bolts under-torqued. Every connecting rod bearing has very odd debris deposits visible in the pictures. The only 2 bearings that this cannot be verified is bearing 1+2, as the bearing is destroyed as well as the crankshaft. Engine/Vehicle History: 2011 BMW M3 (E92) 6-Speed Manual Transmission Engine is stock aside from exhaust system Mileage 39,xxx Oil Changes intervals every 5000 miles Stock OE BMW Rod Bearings + Stock OE BMW connecting rod bolts __________________ BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Race Engines. Suspension. F/I. Brakes. Race Preparation. Factory Service. Alignments. OFFICIAL PARTNERS: KW. MOTON. Brembo. AP Racing. BBS Motorsport. iND. HRE. Turner Motorsport. VAC. BMW Motorsport. Facebook \| Instagram \| Yelp! \| Flikr Phone: 949-233-0448 \| E-Mail: info@mrfengineering.com
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01-03-2015, 09:09 PM	#129
OM VT3 Lieutenant Colonel 140 Rep 1,665 Posts Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere iTrader: (1)	How did you check for under tq and how many nm were they Last edited by OM VT3; 01-03-2015 at 10:44 PM..
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01-03-2015, 10:14 PM	#130
FogCityM3 Colonel 500 Rep 2,400 Posts Drives: M3 (E90) & Porsche GT3 RS Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0)	Great work and interesting theory. This at least is a good starting point for collecting additional data on failed engines that were not considered previously and potentially to seek remediation from BMW if Theory #3 (bolt torquing) appears to be the culprit.
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01-03-2015, 10:41 PM	#132
e92zero Captain 212 Rep 875 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 BW Join Date: May 2010 Location: somewhere in US iTrader: (1)	that looks horrible. Any theory on which failed first? Rod or Main? And as the above poster asked, how do we check for under torqued bolts if you don't mind sharing the info?
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