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01-01-2015, 02:22 PM | #89 | |
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01-01-2015, 02:39 PM | #90 |
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Fair enough, but then why perfect a example here after 39k miles using bearings with tighter clearances?
I get the sense that you have some thoughts of your own on this matter, but are making us pull it out of you one post at a time. What is your explanation? |
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01-01-2015, 02:51 PM | #91 |
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I have read through this guide a few times. Its the Clevite guide to bearing wear. The guide covers most causes to excessive bearing wear. Page 7 and 8 cover bearing crush.
http://www.remotech.info/uploads/cle..._tech_info.pdf
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01-01-2015, 03:07 PM | #92 |
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If the design was flawed you wouldn't have motors going 100-150k with oil change intervals at 15k.
High mileage thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ileage&page=30 I still think its a issue that involves some s65's but not all.
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01-01-2015, 03:21 PM | #93 |
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Simple.....Because if excessive bearing wear is caused by assembly errors you don't believe bmw screw up 99% of all the s65 engines they build do you?
And yes tolerance stack up explains why some engines last a long time and others fail. |
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01-01-2015, 03:29 PM | #94 |
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So you are concluding that 99% of s65 motors are suffering from excessive bearing wear? And this is corroborated by the observed tolerance analyses?
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01-01-2015, 03:48 PM | #95 |
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01-01-2015, 04:03 PM | #96 |
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Here is the Harrop add. On the left are the OE bearings... on the right are the VAC bearings after testing. Considering the 7 micron thickness of the VAC coating... this is impressive. The VAC bearings look very good.
1960847_10152336148908169_1815493102_o by JMEllis, on Flickr
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01-01-2015, 04:18 PM | #98 | |
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01-01-2015, 04:20 PM | #99 |
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May we have some pictures of the bottom of these treated bearings, as it would appear that they have significant wear, with the coatings all but eaten away?
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01-01-2015, 04:23 PM | #100 |
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Take a closer look at the underside of those treated bearings. Looks like wear to me. Why isn't the underside treated?
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01-01-2015, 04:27 PM | #101 |
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01-01-2015, 04:30 PM | #102 | |
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vacs65rb1-1 by JMEllis, on Flickr
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01-01-2015, 05:57 PM | #103 |
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Yes, it does, according to the guide. Plenty of pictures of the underside, as it is also used to diagnose bearing issues. See page 9:
http://www.remotech.info/uploads/cle..._tech_info.pdf
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01-01-2015, 05:58 PM | #104 | |
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01-01-2015, 06:03 PM | #105 |
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I don't know to be honest.
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01-01-2015, 06:29 PM | #106 | |
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01-01-2015, 09:51 PM | #107 | |
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The bearing stays stationary in the rod housing bore(HAS to stay stationary), and if assembled correctly with strict attention to cleanliness, there shouldn't be contaminants trapped behind the shell - that causes wear on the inside where it distorts the bearing. In some applications we use a doweled rod and bearing in order to help discourage the bearing from spinning in cases where the crush and radial pressure might not be enough - mainly aluminum rod drag race applications...a slick coating on the outside of the bearing shell would definitely not help in this regard. |
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01-02-2015, 12:58 PM | #108 | ||||||
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I hope everyone had a great New Year with family and loved ones. My apologies I did not get a chance to respond yesterday.
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No, they are not unfortunately. While the novelty in knowing our S65's are hand built like the AMG engines, they are not. I have spoken to BMW engineers about this in Munich. Quote:
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The underside of the bearing actually does matter and provides information on the sizing and assembly of the rod. If the bolts are under-torqued or the bearings do not provide enough crush, the bearing has room to move back and forth within the connecting rod housing. If loose enough, it will spin. Without enough radial pressure due to insufficient crush, the bearing will also dissipate heat inefficiently, heat up the oil excessively and begin to wear prematurely. Heat will kill a bearing. I will throw this in to be considered. The OEM bearings and WPC bearings are NOT treated at the part line surfaces, the VAC/Calico coated bearings are. That added thickness at that part of the bearing (given fastener torque specs are correctly followed), will yield to added crush. The wear patterns of the S65's that have been taken apart show bearing wear at the top and bottom halves of the shells, not at the parting lines. As explained before, wear at parting lines dictates excessive crush and bulges the sides of the bearings and wear at the top and bottom halves dictate either oil starvation or lack of bearing crush. The back side should not be coated, ever. Correct, they are not and should never be. Quote:
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01-02-2015, 01:05 PM | #109 | |
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01-02-2015, 01:17 PM | #110 | |
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In this case, if we were to speculate, you could say that BMWs use of tight tolerances, combined with something as simple as an out of calibration torque wrench or a bad batch of bolts, add in less than stellar quality assurance and you have a failure. Of course, this is just fun speculation and should not be taken as anything more.
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