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      11-13-2019, 09:14 AM   #1
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Why You Need to Buy an E46 M3 Right Now

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      11-13-2019, 05:44 PM   #2
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The only way to buy an e46 is with a time machine. I love the e46 but simply wont pay what they're going for now. Could have bought a clean one for $8,000 a few years ago. Now they're 3x the price.

Additionally, there are a handful of people inflating the prices on Bring a Trailer. Some basic research indicates the buyers and sellers are linked in some way. I'm not sure how they're circumventing the BAT fees but surely a white e46 with a manual swap and general tires isn't selling for $40k.
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      11-13-2019, 08:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
The only way to buy an e46 is with a time machine. I love the e46 but simply wont pay what they're going for now. Could have bought a clean one for $8,000 a few years ago. Now they're 3x the price.

Additionally, there are a handful of people inflating the prices on Bring a Trailer. Some basic research indicates the buyers and sellers are linked in some way. I'm not sure how they're circumventing the BAT fees but surely a white e46 with a manual swap and general tires isn't selling for $40k.
Can you elaborate on buyers bidding up the price in collusion with the sellers on BAT?

I suspected this on the $90k LSB e46 as the high bidder disappeared and didn't complete the transaction, but do you have any proof?
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      11-13-2019, 11:06 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
The only way to buy an e46 is with a time machine. I love the e46 but simply wont pay what they're going for now. Could have bought a clean one for $8,000 a few years ago. Now they're 3x the price.

Additionally, there are a handful of people inflating the prices on Bring a Trailer. Some basic research indicates the buyers and sellers are linked in some way. I'm not sure how they're circumventing the BAT fees but surely a white e46 with a manual swap and general tires isn't selling for $40k.
Can you elaborate on buyers bidding up the price in collusion with the sellers on BAT?

I suspected this on the $90k LSB e46 as the high bidder disappeared and didn't complete the transaction, but do you have any proof?
I'll have to look. I remember seeing multiple BAT users, seemingly selling cars between Central Florida and Northern California. It seemed an e46 would pop up in NorCal and without fail, a central Florida user would win with an outrageous bid. What, specifically, drew my attention to it was at least two of them had been swapped to manual, that's when I noticed a pattern.

One of the cars popped up on Facebook shortly after for $55k in Florida, which I coincidentally stumbled across. There was some debate on whether it was the same car that had just sold on BAT on the Facebook thread.

What I can't say for sure is that there is 100% something fishy happening on BAT but there is certainly a contingent of people (and it's a small amount) seemingly buying them up and artificially inflating the prices across multiple places on the web.

If nothing else, the conspiracy of outrageously priced e46 M3s will halt sales. I know I'm not the only person active in the M community that's questioned what the hell is going on with the overnight price explosion.
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      11-19-2019, 05:12 PM   #5
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I bought 1 E36 M3s at BAT and there was nothing fishy about the process, not sure if that $90K E46 deal was a legit sale but can only speak about my transaction, I have seen very good prices for well presented E46's, tried to buy some of them but went up out of my budget but all seemed legit transactions
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      11-21-2019, 06:29 PM   #6
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Naw.
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      11-22-2019, 01:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
The only way to buy an e46 is with a time machine. I love the e46 but simply wont pay what they're going for now. Could have bought a clean one for $8,000 a few years ago. Now they're 3x the price.

Additionally, there are a handful of people inflating the prices on Bring a Trailer. Some basic research indicates the buyers and sellers are linked in some way. I'm not sure how they're circumventing the BAT fees but surely a white e46 with a manual swap and general tires isn't selling for $40k.
I've seen no reason to think BaT has any sketchy sales going on.

And, a clean e46 M3 never went lower than ~$16,000. $8000 was, at any point of time, a POS hooptie. They are, indeed, up from that now. The entry price for a coupe I'd be willing to own is now ~$20,000 for SMG or $25,000 for 6mt.
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      11-22-2019, 02:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
The only way to buy an e46 is with a time machine. I love the e46 but simply wont pay what they're going for now. Could have bought a clean one for $8,000 a few years ago. Now they're 3x the price.

Additionally, there are a handful of people inflating the prices on Bring a Trailer. Some basic research indicates the buyers and sellers are linked in some way. I'm not sure how they're circumventing the BAT fees but surely a white e46 with a manual swap and general tires isn't selling for $40k.
I've seen no reason to think BaT has any sketchy sales going on.

And, a clean e46 M3 never went lower than ~$16,000. $8000 was, at any point of time, a POS hooptie. They are, indeed, up from that now. The entry price for a coupe I'd be willing to own is now ~$20,000 for SMG or $25,000 for 6mt.
In 2011 when I was shopping them, there most certainly were decent examples for under $10k in Central Florida.

There's a zero percent chance I'd ever EVER pay over $15-$20k for an e46 even if it had a window sticker on the windows and plastic on the seats.

And you may have not seen anything fishy going on but that doesn't mean others haven't or that there isn't. I spent 10 years literally looking for patterns and anomalies for a living. While I haven't scrapped and databased BaT sales history and user activity, I've got a pretty decent eye for seeing things that don't jive. That's why I said "it seems".

If I took the time I could provide an answer suitable for a courtroom.
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      11-22-2019, 02:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
Additionally, there are a handful of people inflating the prices on Bring a Trailer. Some basic research indicates the buyers and sellers are linked in some way. I'm not sure how they're circumventing the BAT fees but surely a white e46 with a manual swap and general tires isn't selling for $40k.
Witness the birth of fake news.
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      11-22-2019, 02:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
Additionally, there are a handful of people inflating the prices on Bring a Trailer. Some basic research indicates the buyers and sellers are linked in some way. I'm not sure how they're circumventing the BAT fees but surely a white e46 with a manual swap and general tires isn't selling for $40k.
Witness the birth of fake news.
Witness the birth of alternative facts.

"I haven't seen it, myself, so it must not be possible, so I'll insist I'm correct beyond a reasonable doubt and others who disagree are spreading fake news."

'Merica.
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      11-22-2019, 03:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
In 2011 when I was shopping them, there most certainly were decent examples for under $10k in Central Florida.

There's a zero percent chance I'd ever EVER pay over $15-$20k for an e46 even if it had a window sticker on the windows and plastic on the seats.

And you may have not seen anything fishy going on but that doesn't mean others haven't or that there isn't. I spent 10 years literally looking for patterns and anomalies for a living. While I haven't scrapped and databased BaT sales history and user activity, I've got a pretty decent eye for seeing things that don't jive. That's why I said "it seems".

If I took the time I could provide an answer suitable for a courtroom.
Good to know what you wouldn't pay

But, I don't believe you on good condition coupes ever existing under $10k (which I see you've already revised form $8k in your original post). Forum posts from whatever time period you're referring to still exist-- should be easy enough for you to provide a single example.

I know some of the people that sold some of the higher dollar e46 M3s on BaT-- and there is nothing fishy about them.
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      11-22-2019, 03:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
In 2011 when I was shopping them, there most certainly were decent examples for under $10k in Central Florida.

There's a zero percent chance I'd ever EVER pay over $15-$20k for an e46 even if it had a window sticker on the windows and plastic on the seats.

And you may have not seen anything fishy going on but that doesn't mean others haven't or that there isn't. I spent 10 years literally looking for patterns and anomalies for a living. While I haven't scrapped and databased BaT sales history and user activity, I've got a pretty decent eye for seeing things that don't jive. That's why I said "it seems".

If I took the time I could provide an answer suitable for a courtroom.
Good to know what you wouldn't pay

But, I don't believe you on good condition coupes ever existing under $10k. Forum posts from whatever time period you're referring to still exist-- should be easy enough for you to provide a single example.

I know some of the people that sold some of the higher dollar e46 M3s on BaT-- and there is nothing fishy about them.
I don't remember specifics. It's possible I'm mistaken. I don't have the prices in front of me and it was a decade ago almost.

What I'm not mistaken about is seeing a couple of fishy deals going on where the same couple of people appeared to be buying and selling the same e46s back and forth (presumably the same person). Specifically remember seeing an Interlagos and a white one, both with cheap general tires and both 6speed swapped. At some point that same person I think had like 12 e46s in a garage selling them for crazy prices, and they weren't "collectable" examples.

Not saying 98% of deals on BaT aren't legit. But there's something strange going on with e46s right now and I believe there is an active campaign by a handful of people to inflate the market value of these cars.

Buy one, don't, :shrug: but if you buy one for $60k today don't be surprised if it's only worth $30k in a year when the orchestrated bubble bursts.
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      11-25-2019, 08:15 AM   #13
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People would lose a ton of money selling back and forth on BaT to raise prices, and to what end? Listing a car on BaT costs $99, plus $250 for pictures, plus the buyer pays 5% fees to the service for it to go on the records. So BaT took in $4850 on that $90,000 e46 M3. If they did it 4 times, BaT look in $10,000+... so that a couple of individuals could raise e46 M3 values? Assuming they even did and it would persist after auctions that were artificially being inflate? And it just, by chance, happened to coincide with e39 M5 values going up?

... or are e39s another conspiracy by the same group? If so, imagine the auction fees they paid on the $186,000 example recently!
(though admittedly the $186,000 e39 M5 auction wasn't on BaT)

Last edited by Obioban; 11-25-2019 at 03:59 PM..
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      11-26-2019, 06:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
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People would lose a ton of money selling back and forth on BaT to raise prices, and to what end? Listing a car on BaT costs $99, plus $250 for pictures, plus the buyer pays 5% fees to the service for it to go on the records. So BaT took in $4850 on that $90,000 e46 M3. If they did it 4 times, BaT look in $10,000+... so that a couple of individuals could raise e46 M3 values? Assuming they even did and it would persist after auctions that were artificially being inflate? And it just, by chance, happened to coincide with e39 M5 values going up?

... or are e39s another conspiracy by the same group? If so, imagine the auction fees they paid on the $186,000 example recently!
(though admittedly the $186,000 e39 M5 auction wasn't on BaT)
I don't know man. Believe what you want. Buy 5 $60,000 e46s for all I care. :shrug:

E39 M5s have been going up in value for years, it didn't double in value in a 60 day period of time.
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      11-27-2019, 08:18 AM   #15
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Understand that it is not just buying any e46 m3 for 30-40+. It's buying a well maintained an no matter what anyone says low miles example that will bring prices like this and higher . It's like twins but one drinks smokes etc. overtime one just will not look as appealing as the other. This is also a rule of thumb for most desirable vehicles. As time moves forward we fall in love with the past some just may take a little longer than others
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