Track forum general chit chat.

[kyoo]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I just did a light track day on my DS2500’s on my stoptechs and this was my first experience with this pad on a track. I agree with the Brake Guy (they and everybody else gets their Ferodo pads from Essex, btw unless I missed something). DS2500 is a street pad that won’t disintegrate on track, so I guess if that’s what you want to call a hybrid sure fine. I think a lot of the light, slow car brake knowledge is misapplied to 450+hp ground pounders by some sales folks.

They never completely go away and leave with no brakes like a stock/street pad, so that’s a big improvement over most OEM pads. But they are definitely not a track pad capable of hanging in there at 10/10hs fo multiple laps on anything with some power. I was on Conti ECS street tires because it was a spur of the moment thing and the brakes still had to be managed at a track that admittedly doesn’t give the brakes much rest (1.6 miles, ~70 second lap, 8 turns, 5 brake events, one from 130-ish into turn 1 and then 4 more in quick succession).

Maybe with ducting I could have pounded on them for 20 minutes straight but that’s still on a true street tire, not even a super-200 or the like. So yeah. Way better than stock or even most true street pads, because they won’t kill you when they get hot, but not up to the task of consistent tracking on a 3500lb, 130mph+ car

i did fine on mine, though i do have some ti shims i'd like to slot in there. is there a way to get them without the clip that goes into the piston? the tracks i'm running on (autobahn south, full, north) have way, way shorter straights, i didn't top 120 on my stock power m3. anything more, and i def would get a true track pad.

[elim11]

Originally Posted by dparm

PFC makes NOTHING for my caliper (which is shared with the CTS-V, Camaro, R35 GT-R, some AMGs, and an Aston). I've talked with their tech guys twice in two years and they just don't give a fuck. They make too much money off you guys and the Porsche race teams to care. I found something pretty close by browsing their catalog, but it's too thick and would need to be shaved down. It was like $500+ plus whatever that shaving cost would be. No thanks.

For $525 I can go get Pagid RS19/29 in a direct fit. But what's the point of an endurance pad in this situation? Those are designed for sustained high temps. I don't have a heat issue here.

Endurance pads usually have lower torque, at least that was my experience when going from PFC 08 to the cobalt XR1

[dparm]

Originally Posted by elim11

Endurance pads usually have lower torque, at least that was my experience when going from PFC 08 to the cobalt XR1

So if you have lower torque, doesn't that also mean you surrender some of your modulation by definition?

My understanding of endurance pads is that they sacrifice a lot in the name of durability. Zeckhausen said that an endurance pad would probably solve the issue of tires being overpowered, but at a much higher price than is really necessary. (RS29s would be about $850 in total)

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dparm

So if you have lower torque, doesn't that also mean you surrender some of your modulation by definition?

Not if your legs are super jacked right?

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by dparm

So if you have lower torque, doesn't that also mean you surrender some of your modulation by definition?

My understanding of endurance pads is that they sacrifice a lot in the name of durability. Zeckhausen said that an endurance pad would probably solve the issue of tires being overpowered, but at a much higher price than is really necessary. (RS29s would be about $850 in total)

I have run RS-29's on a 3000 lb E46 M3 for nearly 10 years now. Brembo 4 pot calipers in front and stock calipers in rear. I use up two sets of fronts and 1 set of rears per year. Admittedly, I don't run a ton of laps as I typically do TT. However, my coach and I have flogged car for multiple laps when we're working together with nary an issue. I don't run ducts and have never had fade. YMMV.

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by dparm

Are you going to reimburse me if I don't like them?

No guarantees, but I'm available to help wear them to the backing plate if needed

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Richbot

T2 at a heavier weight and limited mods is an option too iirc, unless something has changed. A few have been built for T2 in the past, and a run pretty close to the front. Touring is a spend your way to near the front and then drive the rest of the way there class, sooooo beware the development curve heh

I bet Fall Line et al might have a line on some already-built cars. Always one or two for sale at a discount to the cost of building

SCCA has not yet seen the light and built a Super Touring power to Wright class for 3L-7L cars but T1 is probably the closest thing to it

You're right - I didn't catch that T2 was an option as well. Think I'm already too far past some of the restrictions unfortunately, really would have preferred that minimum weight. Would have been easier to bounce between there & ST3 in NASA.

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by dparm

Never used Cobalt. What do they have with more moderate torque? Looking at their reference table, it seems to indicate that the XR2 is similar in performance to the DTC-60 so I guess I'd want the XR3? Those are like $525 for the front axle, ouch.


So far have gotten two different answers from my "brake guys":

KNS told me to try the ST43 because it's a little bit lower friction but still gives good life. They have used it on cars with street tires and didn't experience ABS intervention. I asked about the DS2500 and he said no, that's a street pad (I disagree, it's a hybrid). Kinda pricey at $400 for the front axle though.

Zeckhausen suggested going back to a hybrid pad like the DS2500, and that I should just monitor consumption. I had actually used them after I got the car and found them to be decent -- no fade and consumption on par with the Hawks. Ended up dumping them because the Hawks were cheaper. The Ferodos are about $300 for the front axle and have come down a bit in price it seems.

I can't believe anyone with more than a few track events could tolerate the DS2500. I'm a big fan of the Cobalt Friction pad. For me, they last longer than almost any other pad, and I drive like an idiot. I can get 5-6 days (4 sessions per day) out of the fronts running on R-comps. I prefer higher initial bite so I run the XR1s in front and XR2s in the rear, but you could run the XR2/XR3 combo if you prefer less initial bite.

IMHO, you will adjust to whatever pad you try. When I first went to the XR1s in front, I was getting into the ABS all the time as it takes a lighter touch. My initial reaction was, F-this, I'm going back to a pad with less initial bite. Then, I adjusted by backing off on the pedal pressure to adjust for threshold braking all the way through the lightest touch at the end of a trail braking episode. Now I prefer the higher initial bite as the pedal takes overall less pressure, and I'm not stomping on the brakes. The Cobalt Friction (both XR1 and XR2s) have a wide range of stopping power so it's not like an on off switch. You do have to adjust your pedal pressure. You might even consider that with your current setup.

[M3MPH1S]

Another vote for endurance pads here. I've run RS29, DTC60, DTC70, and PFC08 (in that order) and I didn't notice any difference in ability to modulate and I can't say for sure if I even felt like the DTCs bit harder (it seems like a tiny bit, but it's hard to say without running them literally back to back sessions). Might be different for the vette, but that's my experience so far.

[dparm]

Went back to MSR Cresson this afternoon for SCCA TNIA. Managed to get 3.2s off my previous time (which was also my first visit), down to 1:22.44. It's lap 5 if you want to jump ahead. I know there's probably another second in there. Will need to look at the data tomorrow.

[SQ13]

I need to move to DFW

[Kelse92]

Just a heads up on the Cobalt pads. I tried to order a set from Andie a couple of months ago and he told me he was slowing down production and didn't have the material needed for mine and wasnt planning on ordering more at the time so he wouldn't be able to make my set for the forseeable future and I had to go with an alternative set.
Some distributors may still have them in stock but not sure...

And yes SQ13 you do need to come join us in DFW!

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Just a heads up on the Cobalt pads. I tried to order a set from Andie a couple of months ago and he told me he was slowing down production and didn't have the material needed for mine and wasnt planning on ordering more at the time so he wouldn't be able to make my set for the forseeable future and I had to go with an alternative set.
Some distributors may still have them in stock but not sure...

And yes SQ13 you do need to come join us in DFW!

I have a Cobalt Friction connection in DFW - if interested, PM me. Not sure about the M3 OEM or Corvette fitament, but I'm happy to check.

Just an unrelated plug for Clark and Linda with Apex Performance - they will give you 10% - 15% off most items they sell. Even those like Stilo, AiM and brake pads.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

I have a Cobalt Friction connection in DFW - if interested, PM me. Not sure about the M3 OEM or Corvette fitament, but I'm happy to check.

Just an unrelated plug for Clark and Linda with Apex Performance - they will give you 10% - 15% off most items they sell. Even those like Stilo, AiM and brake pads.

Sweet!
And I actually am now redacting my statement lol
I emailed Andie last night after my post just to see what was up and we ended up getting on a 1am phone call and he basically told me he did say F-it and quit the business for about two months! (right at the same time I was trying to order)
But he's back and mixing stuff again so I placed an order, he said he's going to have new shipments ready in October

[dparm]

So umm, is Castrol SRF discontinued or something? NO ONE has it in stock and some even say "sold out until further notice" or whatever.

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by dparm

Went back to MSR Cresson this afternoon for SCCA TNIA. Managed to get 3.2s off my previous time (which was also my first visit), down to 1:22.44. It's lap 5 if you want to jump ahead. I know there's probably another second in there. Will need to look at the data tomorrow.

Great laps - especially considering it was your second time at MSR! What tires were you running? If you get your brake issues sorted, I'd bet you could get under 1:20 at your next event.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by dparm

So umm, is Castrol SRF discontinued or something? NO ONE has it in stock and some even say "sold out until further notice" or whatever.

Call Tim at OEM Part Haus, he's a big seller on Ebay. He almost always has SRF in Stock in his warehouse and he's local. I can connect you guys.

EDIT: Just asked him, apparently theres a worldwide backorder....

[dparm]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Great laps - especially considering it was your second time at MSR! What tires were you running? If you get your brake issues sorted, I'd bet you could get under 1:20 at your next event.

Rival S 1.5. And yes, per your PM, I know there are a few places I need to brake later. Still learning the track -- I've only done two TNIA events there now which is pretty much just a single track day.

Originally Posted by Kelse92

EDIT: Just asked him, apparently theres a worldwide backorder....

Yeah, when I hear stuff like that, it makes me think it'll get discontinued or reformulated (read: made worse).

[Richbot]

I have two bottles and you can't have them.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by dparm

Yeah, when I hear stuff like that, it makes me think it'll get discontinued or reformulated (read: made worse).

Yeah... fingers crossed. He just told me he has 1000 units on order so when he gets them we'll be the first to know.

[dparm]

Welp, looks like it's time for Torque RT700 or Endless RF-650.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Richbot

T2 at a heavier weight and limited mods is an option too iirc, unless something has changed. A few have been built for T2 in the past, and a run pretty close to the front. Touring is a spend your way to near the front and then drive the rest of the way there class, sooooo beware the development curve heh

I bet Fall Line et al might have a line on some already-built cars. Always one or two for sale at a discount to the cost of building

SCCA has not yet seen the light and built a Super Touring power to Wright class for 3L-7L cars but T1 is probably the closest thing to it

I would definitely talk to the guys at Fall-Line. Their shop at Autobahn CC has tons of E92 race cars in it. Maybe they'll sell you one?