Dinan Hypocrite?

Cali convertible · 03-10-2010, 12:45 AM

Let me start by saying that I don't have a problem with Dinan like many of you in the forum. I was driving down the road and it came to me about all the reading I have been doing on the forum about Dinan's new pulley. I could be getting old and losing my memory, but could have sworn I read on Dinan's website that Dinan was talking about the dangers of getting a new pulley. I remember they talked about the harmonic balance,over heating and other technical stuff that would ruin your car if you put one in. Please tell me other people saw this article. Now they are selling one. Very interesting. Please chime in.

xxe92xx · 03-10-2010, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali convertible

Let me start by saying that I don't have a problem with Dinan like many of you in the forum. I was driving down the road and it came to me about all the reading I have been doing on the forum about Dinan's new pulley. I could be getting old and losing my memory, but could have sworn I read on Dinan's website that Dinan was talking about the dangers of getting a new pulley. I remember they talked about the harmonic balance,over heating and other technical stuff that would ruin your car if you put one in. Please tell me other people saw this article. Now they are selling one. Very interesting. Please chime in.

i think they meant "power pullies" not a "crank pulley"

skoot3r · 03-10-2010, 01:06 AM

old news?

Fupa92 · 03-10-2010, 01:16 AM

Cali Convertible,

I think anyone who has been a registered member for even a week would have seen a few recent posts regarding this issue. Just letting you know in advance, prepare your flame suit

MMMorish · 03-10-2010, 07:50 AM

Hey guys, ease up on the newbie. If you look at the review on this section of Dinan's crank pulley, you'll read a great and lenthy post by Lemans_Blue_M about Dinan's crank pulleys and why they never offered one in the past. And you can pretty much take to the bank anything that Lemans comments on because he is quite knowledgable on the automotive industry and cars in general.

Fupa92 · 03-10-2010, 08:52 AM

Wasn't meaning to be harsh, just giving him some insight on the history of the topic. Potentially calling Dinan out like that is a not something many will take lightly. Below is a link of the most recent explanation (although many vendors and users have inputted on this as well):

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=358586&page=2

MMMorish · 03-10-2010, 09:35 AM

I think this explanation from Lemans_Blue_M is the best I've read. I copied and pasted it for you to read.

Power pulleys are not the same as a CRANK pulley.

A number of aftermarket companies build individual accessory pulleys, that will under drive certain engine components like the power steering pump, the water pump, or the alternator. These are called "Power Pulleys".

A crankshaft pulley is different, since it replaces your existing OEM crankshaft pulley, to under drive all the belt driven accessories bolted to the engine. (to reduce the parasitic drag losses)

Power pulleys may yield 2-3 hp improvement over stock, but an aggressively spec'd aftermarket under drive crankshaft pulley (16%) will yield 10+ hp under ideal conditions.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Also, I would like to clarify some things that Steve was talking about in that tech article...

In 2002-2003 when this article was written, the E36 & E46 M3's both used variants of the same 3.0-3.2 liter straight-six powerplants from the S50, S52, & S54 family of BMW Motorsport engines.

Now keep in mind, the state of the art "M" engine in those days was the S54B32 in the E46 M3.

That's an important detail...because the S54B32 uses a harmonic dampener to keep the engine vibrations in check. BMW straight-six Motorsport engines are very smooth and well balanced, but they require very precise crankshaft dampening to prevent damage at high rpms.

What Steve was talking about in this article, was the fact that if you remove the main CRANKSHAFT PULLEY (not the smaller individual accessory pulleys) you could potentially damage the engine bearings (or the engine crankshaft seal) over time, since the engine would no longer have that factory harmonic dampener protection in place.

The Dinan under drive pulley on the E92 M3 does not modify the factory harmonics or dampening capabilities, and it safely under drives the belt driven water pump, alternator, AC, and power steering pump, to reduce parasitic power losses on the M3 engine.

When Steve originally wrote that article, he was also railing against those modifications because several aftermarket companies were simply selling CNC'd under drive pulleys that were not perfectly balanced, nor did they retain the factory harmonic balancer. (which can lead to engine damage) There was little or no R&D done on most of these parts to ensure OEM-type fitment...that is crucial to safe, reliable performance.

These poorly engineered under drive crankshaft pulleys would lead to all the problems he explains in the article, and that's why Dinan never offered an under drive crank pulley of their own for the E36 M3 or E46 M3. (fact)

For the S85B50 V10 in the M5 & M6 and the S65B40 V8 in the E9x M3, Steve's engineering team talked him into it building a crankshaft pulley for these engines, after they were comfortable they could manufacture an OEM quality part for his clients (customers) that was perfectly safe.

You know, it really took me a long time to realize something...

On rare occasions, you have to make compromises when you are selling parts to the general public.

When you own a retail automotive parts business, you don't always get to pick and choose what parts you want to sell ...and parts you don't.

Let me explain...

If enough people within your loyal customer group (repeat customers) request that you build a particular part, then as a businessman it's really tough to say NO to them. It's not a good business move to deny a large percentage of your core customer demographic something when they really want it. So at the end of the day, you have to give in sometimes to keep your customers happy. That's called customer service folks.

It's not always easy to sit on your throne and say "I'll NEVER.........."

So I'm sure the Dinan haters will call him names (which they would do anyway), and I'm sure he realizes that criticism is coming...

Yes, his philosophy on this subject has changed a bit over the years, but that's actually a good thing. When presented with a way to do something he originally thought was just a bad idea, the man reconsidered his position on this issue...and made a course correction.

That's an admirable trait, and it takes guts to do something like that...especially when your KNOW people are going to criticize you for modifying your original position.

Anyway, that's the whole back story to the article on Dinan's website.

Bob MG · 03-10-2010, 01:47 PM

Burt....

I liked the "put your flame suit on"" hahah

MMMorish · 03-10-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob MG

Burt....

I liked the "put your flame suit on"" hahah

lol so did I but I just felt bad for the newb. Everyone deserves at least a hundred posts before the brotherhood of the M3 mob go after him and flame him!

spdu4ea · 03-10-2010, 02:42 PM

Undampened pullies are a big no-no on Inline 6 and externally dampened engines. They are ok on internally dampened I4s, V6s, V8's

Cali convertible · 03-11-2010, 12:35 AM

Sorry guy's I do have a life and I may be busy deciding which convetible I'm going to drive, the Silver or the White in sunny California. I have noticed that guy's are waiting in the wings to make someone look stupid, not just me. This forum is to learn things from other brother's not to say look at the nubie he has not been reading. I get on at least twice a week, but I can't always read all the articles. I like to hunt and fish also, but if someone wants to learn about hunting I don't tell them sorry nubie you should have read more articles about hunting before you asked me a question. That said I won the most votes for the best shit talker in fantasy football this year, so keep it coming. And as for being the nubie I have been in longer then the ones calling me nubie, look at the join date before you comment. LoL. Thanks Burt for the article I owe you one. Peace out.

Bob MG · 03-11-2010, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali convertible

I have noticed that guy's are waiting in the wings to make someone look stupid, not just me. This forum is to learn things from other brother's not to say look at the nubie he has not been reading. I get on at least twice a week, but I can't always read all the articles. I like to hunt and fish also, but if someone wants to learn about hunting I don't tell them sorry nubie you should have read more articles about hunting before you asked me a question. That said I won the most votes for the best shit talker in fantasy football this year, so keep it coming. And as for being the nubie I have been in longer then the ones calling me nubie, look at the join date before you comment. LoL. Thanks Burt for the article I owe you one. Peace out.

Burt is my buddy too!

Cali I will be your buddy, anything you need just ask, all these other cantankerous members are just full of shit. Learn to give it back them, and you will slot in real well! What do you hunt BTW? I also deep sea big game fish and hunt, bird and game

As they say "Every Englishman must have a hobby. Some like to collect the stamp, some like to make the jam, but the most fun is to a kill a little animal with a shotgun or rip them up with wild dog"

chungdae · 03-11-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali convertible

Sorry guy's I do have a life and I may be busy deciding which convetible I'm going to drive, the Silver or the White in sunny California. I have noticed that guy's are waiting in the wings to make someone look stupid, not just me. This forum is to learn things from other brother's not to say look at the nubie he has not been reading. I get on at least twice a week, but I can't always read all the articles. I like to hunt and fish also, but if someone wants to learn about hunting I don't tell them sorry nubie you should have read more articles about hunting before you asked me a question. That said I won the most votes for the best shit talker in fantasy football this year, so keep it coming. And as for being the nubie I have been in longer then the ones calling me nubie, look at the join date before you comment. LoL. Thanks Burt for the article I owe you one. Peace out.

So angry.

Cali convertible · 03-12-2010, 12:41 AM

Thank's Bob MG your funny. I shoot anything that moves while im hunting, even Bald eagles. LOL.

Bob MG · 03-12-2010, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali convertible

Thank's Bob MG your funny. I shoot anything that moves while im hunting, even Bald eagles. LOL.

cool maybe I will come and hunt with you in the US and A!!
There is fantastic hunting here in Africa, but you already know that

03-10-2010, 12:45 AM	#1
Cali convertible Cali convertible 11 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 DCT convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Livermore, Ca iTrader: (0)	Dinan Hypocrite? Let me start by saying that I don't have a problem with Dinan like many of you in the forum. I was driving down the road and it came to me about all the reading I have been doing on the forum about Dinan's new pulley. I could be getting old and losing my memory, but could have sworn I read on Dinan's website that Dinan was talking about the dangers of getting a new pulley. I remember they talked about the harmonic balance,over heating and other technical stuff that would ruin your car if you put one in. Please tell me other people saw this article. Now they are selling one. Very interesting. Please chime in.
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03-10-2010, 01:06 AM	#3
skoot3r BMW n00b 50 Rep 1,143 Posts Drives: 09 e92 M3/ 2013 GMC 2500hd Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San Jose iTrader: (4)	old news? __________________ 09 SpaceGray M3 DCT Power: Dinan 3.62, Gintani Race Mufflers, Dinan Intake, Gintani Xpipe, RPi Scoops Cosmetic: Vrs Poly-Lip, CSL Trunk, LED Interior Lights, LUX H8, Smoked Tails, Challenge Diffuser
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03-10-2010, 01:16 AM	#4
Fupa92 Do you FUPA? 14 Rep 148 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Honolulu iTrader: (0)	Cali Convertible, I think anyone who has been a registered member for even a week would have seen a few recent posts regarding this issue. Just letting you know in advance, prepare your flame suit Last edited by Fupa92; 03-10-2010 at 01:47 AM..
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03-10-2010, 07:50 AM	#5
MMMorish Just call me J.J. McClure 156 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 M3 & C4 Corvette Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (5)	Hey guys, ease up on the newbie. If you look at the review on this section of Dinan's crank pulley, you'll read a great and lenthy post by Lemans_Blue_M about Dinan's crank pulleys and why they never offered one in the past. And you can pretty much take to the bank anything that Lemans comments on because he is quite knowledgable on the automotive industry and cars in general. __________________ MODS: Meisterschaft GT Racing Exhaust / BMC Air Filter / UUC SSK & DSSR (Modded)/ RPI Scoops / Passport SRX Hardwired / Custom Wrap 3M Clearbra / 20% Tint / 50% Windshield Tint / Key Hole Delete / Matted Out Accessories / VRS Type II Diffuser / Smoked Reflectors / Euphoria 6K LED Interior Lights / Rear Fog Light Mod / 6000K HID's / 6500K LUX H8 Angel Eyes / RDash License Plate LED Kit / LED Xenon Reverse Lights "M3 drivers have no friends"
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03-10-2010, 08:52 AM	#6
Fupa92 Do you FUPA? 14 Rep 148 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Honolulu iTrader: (0)	Wasn't meaning to be harsh, just giving him some insight on the history of the topic. Potentially calling Dinan out like that is a not something many will take lightly. Below is a link of the most recent explanation (although many vendors and users have inputted on this as well): http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=358586&page=2
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-10-2010, 09:35 AM	#7
MMMorish Just call me J.J. McClure 156 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 M3 & C4 Corvette Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (5)	I think this explanation from Lemans_Blue_M is the best I've read. I copied and pasted it for you to read. Power pulleys are not the same as a CRANK pulley. A number of aftermarket companies build individual accessory pulleys, that will under drive certain engine components like the power steering pump, the water pump, or the alternator. These are called "Power Pulleys". A crankshaft pulley is different, since it replaces your existing OEM crankshaft pulley, to under drive all the belt driven accessories bolted to the engine. (to reduce the parasitic drag losses) Power pulleys may yield 2-3 hp improvement over stock, but an aggressively spec'd aftermarket under drive crankshaft pulley (16%) will yield 10+ hp under ideal conditions. I hope this clears up any confusion. Also, I would like to clarify some things that Steve was talking about in that tech article... In 2002-2003 when this article was written, the E36 & E46 M3's both used variants of the same 3.0-3.2 liter straight-six powerplants from the S50, S52, & S54 family of BMW Motorsport engines. Now keep in mind, the state of the art "M" engine in those days was the S54B32 in the E46 M3. That's an important detail...because the S54B32 uses a harmonic dampener to keep the engine vibrations in check. BMW straight-six Motorsport engines are very smooth and well balanced, but they require very precise crankshaft dampening to prevent damage at high rpms. What Steve was talking about in this article, was the fact that if you remove the main CRANKSHAFT PULLEY (not the smaller individual accessory pulleys) you could potentially damage the engine bearings (or the engine crankshaft seal) over time, since the engine would no longer have that factory harmonic dampener protection in place. The Dinan under drive pulley on the E92 M3 does not modify the factory harmonics or dampening capabilities, and it safely under drives the belt driven water pump, alternator, AC, and power steering pump, to reduce parasitic power losses on the M3 engine. When Steve originally wrote that article, he was also railing against those modifications because several aftermarket companies were simply selling CNC'd under drive pulleys that were not perfectly balanced, nor did they retain the factory harmonic balancer. (which can lead to engine damage) There was little or no R&D done on most of these parts to ensure OEM-type fitment...that is crucial to safe, reliable performance. These poorly engineered under drive crankshaft pulleys would lead to all the problems he explains in the article, and that's why Dinan never offered an under drive crank pulley of their own for the E36 M3 or E46 M3. (fact) For the S85B50 V10 in the M5 & M6 and the S65B40 V8 in the E9x M3, Steve's engineering team talked him into it building a crankshaft pulley for these engines, after they were comfortable they could manufacture an OEM quality part for his clients (customers) that was perfectly safe. You know, it really took me a long time to realize something... On rare occasions, you have to make compromises when you are selling parts to the general public. When you own a retail automotive parts business, you don't always get to pick and choose what parts you want to sell ...and parts you don't. Let me explain... If enough people within your loyal customer group (repeat customers) request that you build a particular part, then as a businessman it's really tough to say NO to them. It's not a good business move to deny a large percentage of your core customer demographic something when they really want it. So at the end of the day, you have to give in sometimes to keep your customers happy. That's called customer service folks. It's not always easy to sit on your throne and say "I'll NEVER.........." So I'm sure the Dinan haters will call him names (which they would do anyway), and I'm sure he realizes that criticism is coming... Yes, his philosophy on this subject has changed a bit over the years, but that's actually a good thing. When presented with a way to do something he originally thought was just a bad idea, the man reconsidered his position on this issue...and made a course correction. That's an admirable trait, and it takes guts to do something like that...especially when your KNOW people are going to criticize you for modifying your original position. Anyway, that's the whole back story to the article on Dinan's website. __________________ MODS: Meisterschaft GT Racing Exhaust / BMC Air Filter / UUC SSK & DSSR (Modded)/ RPI Scoops / Passport SRX Hardwired / Custom Wrap 3M Clearbra / 20% Tint / 50% Windshield Tint / Key Hole Delete / Matted Out Accessories / VRS Type II Diffuser / Smoked Reflectors / Euphoria 6K LED Interior Lights / Rear Fog Light Mod / 6000K HID's / 6500K LUX H8 Angel Eyes / RDash License Plate LED Kit / LED Xenon Reverse Lights "M3 drivers have no friends"
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03-10-2010, 01:47 PM	#8
Bob MG Moderating 418 Rep 2,047 Posts Drives: like a muppet Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Dubai iTrader: (0)	Burt.... I liked the "put your flame suit on"" hahah
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03-10-2010, 02:42 PM	#10
spdu4ea Custom User Title 9 Rep 105 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Undampened pullies are a big no-no on Inline 6 and externally dampened engines. They are ok on internally dampened I4s, V6s, V8's
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03-11-2010, 12:35 AM	#11
Cali convertible Cali convertible 11 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 DCT convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Livermore, Ca iTrader: (0)	I got my flame suit on Sorry guy's I do have a life and I may be busy deciding which convetible I'm going to drive, the Silver or the White in sunny California. I have noticed that guy's are waiting in the wings to make someone look stupid, not just me. This forum is to learn things from other brother's not to say look at the nubie he has not been reading. I get on at least twice a week, but I can't always read all the articles. I like to hunt and fish also, but if someone wants to learn about hunting I don't tell them sorry nubie you should have read more articles about hunting before you asked me a question. That said I won the most votes for the best shit talker in fantasy football this year, so keep it coming. And as for being the nubie I have been in longer then the ones calling me nubie, look at the join date before you comment. LoL. Thanks Burt for the article I owe you one. Peace out.
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03-12-2010, 12:41 AM	#14
Cali convertible Cali convertible 11 Rep 72 Posts Drives: 2008 E93 DCT convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Livermore, Ca iTrader: (0)	Thank's Bob MG your funny. I shoot anything that moves while im hunting, even Bald eagles. LOL.
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