New Camaro=decent daily?

[MPG_LOL]

I've been driving my M3 for 5 years now as a daily and canyon cruiser,I picked it up with 50k miles and am now approaching 120k. The car is robust, I have taken care of major maintenance items and added tasteful modifications. I've been looking at retiring the M3 from daily use, its harsh on LA roads with the KWs, fuel economy isn't stellar and i feel bad racking up the miles.
For now I see the M3 as a "forever car" ..never selling.

Over the last week I have seen very aggressive lease deals on new Camaro LT1s, basically a V8 SS with lower quality interior. For around $350 a month it seems like a steal for a 450HP V8 with torque, and decent fuel economy.
I have only read excellent reviews about the chassis dynamics and engine. I expect the interior and visibility to be a downgrade, but for a car to bounce around LA in it seems like the price is right.

Does anyone have experience driving the new Camaros? Is it comfortable enough to drive around town?

[kyrix1st]

Unless you are howling around people... less is generally better.

I would daily cheap but fun cars like Z3/Z4/Boxster/MX-5 in MT, cars I don't mind stacking up the miles but still very fun to drive around the bends. Since these cars are light, it gets great MPG.

LA has some of the best weathers on the planet, take advantage of it.

[SnohoRaptor]

Short answer: The new Camero wouldn't be desirable long term as a daily for me. Too much torque to be "responsible", terrible visibility, difficult to climb in and out of, small trunk (we still talking as a daily?)

I looked at the Camero in 2017 after the first refresh. The three I drove (SS & 1LE) left an undesirable impression (as mentioned). I knew if I would have bought it, it wouldn't have lasted long as a daily.

I ended up buying a S550'pro touring performance pack Mustang which was better then the Camero, but still not convenient as a daily. I traded it for an F80. A few changes later I'm here with a pickup and the M3 as a weekend car.

The E92 is the perfect fit for me and while I understand your desire to slow down the wear and tear on your M3 (couldn't agree more), I think the Camero's a very difficult car to live with as a daily.
Pic is from a fun mountain drive with a buddy's ZL1 in Sept. Sure he has 650hp, but the e92 is so much cooler.

[Scrippy]

I think you should forget the Camaro and enjoy your M. It's pretty weak sauce that everybody garage queens their M's. Don't worry about the mileage man, if you stay up on the cars maintenance it will be fine. I daily mine in LA and I also have KW suspension. You are correct that the roads are shit but things can be fixed. I'm pushing 260,000 and she's as strong as ever. Sometimes the views on this forum are way too conservative and I perceive a certain uneasiness from everyone regarding reliability. The car is fairly robust despite its complex systems. Save the money going towards the Camaro and throw it at the M but that is only my two cents. I have 3 friends with Camaro's no older than 2 years and the shift speed is not at all enjoyable like our DCT. The interior is shit and the drivers view is horrible. I think we forget how the E92 was a bench mark for others and we take for granted what it is still capable of. Yes I am mega biased but this is still a pretty great package even at the original purchase price when new. The only car offering so much for a great price would be the C8. But these are only my opinions. Either way I'm sure you will have a blast in the end.

[roastbeef]

drive one and see if you still feel the same way.

[MPG_LOL]

Interesting perspective. For me I don't mind that the camaro is small since I have access to
another car for utility needs. I really just need to make sure the suspension isn't punishing like the M3 with linear springs. Maybe i keep reading that ICEs are going away, i read the next mustang will be all electric. I want to sample a basic American car with a huge engine while I can.

I'll drive the camaro and see how it is.

Originally Posted by SnohoRaptor

Short answer: The new Camero wouldn't be desirable long term as a daily for me. Too much torque to be "responsible", terrible visibility, difficult to climb in and out of, small trunk (we still talking as a daily?)

I looked at the Camero in 2017 after the first refresh. The three I drove (SS & 1LE) left an undesirable impression (as mentioned). I knew if I would have bought it, it wouldn't have lasted long as a daily.

I ended up buying a S550'pro touring performance pack Mustang which was better then the Camero, but still not convenient as a daily. I traded it for an F80. A few changes later I'm here with a pickup and the M3 as a weekend car.

The E92 is the perfect fit for me and while I understand your desire to slow down the wear and tear on your M3 (couldn't agree more), I think the Camero's a very difficult car to live with as a daily.
Pic is from a fun mountain drive with a buddy's ZL1 in Sept. Sure he has 650hp, but the e92 is so much cooler.

[Super Spartan]

For me it is:

1) Uniqueness factor, it still looks good by today's standards and you're not driving a car which everyone else drives (relatively speaking). Plus, the E9X M3 looks noticeably different than the regular 3 series but the F8X look the same as they all have the M Package which doesn't make the M3/M4 that special comparatively.

2) Naturally Aspirated, I had an F83 M4 Competition and while it was a nice car, the acceleration from a stand still never threw me back in my seat, that turbo lag is there no matter what people say. With the E93 M3 that I just got recently, I am just shocked how hard I get thrown back in my seat when doing a full acceleration from a stand still. That fun factor on its own is worth it!

3) The engine noise and when coupled with a good exhaust is insane I had the MPE on my M4 and it transformed the car, but on the M3 E9X it sounds more like a super car now especially those downshifts. I have the Akrapovic Titanium Exhaust as the stock exhaust just horrible.

[br2wdc]

I just did a search and you're correct; the lease deal on LT1 is even better then on the Turbo 4's!

Lease deals to me are sort of a Catch-22; you're getting an excellent value because you get to have a race car for the monthly price of a Civic, but you also don't get any ownership stake (lease buyout is usually above resale value), and normally the miles are capped at 10k/per year unless you negotiate a higher number.

I'd drive one and see if the limited visibility is an issue for you. A good friend of mine had a 2016 SS and when I sat in it I felt like I was in a submarine with only small slits to see out of

Originally Posted by MPG_LOL

Over the last week I have seen very aggressive lease deals on new Camaro LT1s, basically a V8 SS with lower quality interior. For around $350 a month it seems like a steal for a 450HP V8 with torque, and decent fuel economy.
I have only read excellent reviews about the chassis dynamics and engine. I expect the interior and visibility to be a downgrade, but for a car to bounce around LA in it seems like the price is right.

Does anyone have experience driving the new Camaros? Is it comfortable enough to drive around town?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by MPG_LOL

Interesting perspective. For me I don't mind that the camaro is small since I have access to
another car for utility needs. I really just need to make sure the suspension isn't punishing like the M3 with linear springs. Maybe i keep reading that ICEs are going away, i read the next mustang will be all electric. I want to sample a basic American car with a huge engine while I can.

I'll drive the camaro and see how it is.

I don't think the Camaro is small, it's big, with a small interior and trunk, which bothers me that such a big car is so compromised in this way.

I think the Camaro is an insane performance bargain. The bad viability is annoying and the compromised space reduces its daily drivability. If you don't need the space and the visibility doesn't bother you then the ride quality is probably an upgrade for a daily.

I wonder what the lease deals are for a Alfa Quaddrafolio are? They were giving those things away because they couldn't keep them out of the shop. Now that's a great 4 door performance car.

I'm pretty happy with a 2 series for a coup daily. Maybe there are good deals on an m240 or used m235?

Probably no good deals on mustang gt350 but it's a more unique engine than what's in other American cars, and easier to see out of.

What about a Lexus rcf or gsf? Should be reliable, v8, get a used one maybe?

You could also get a "beater" e90 or e92 m3. I see people selling high mile 08 and 09 cars witha minor fender bender on the car fax for low prices. They're freaked out about rod bearings and TAs and happy to be rid of the car.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MPG_LOL

I've been driving my M3 for 5 years now as a daily and canyon cruiser,I picked it up with 50k miles and am now approaching 120k. The car is robust, I have taken care of major maintenance items and added tasteful modifications. I've been looking at retiring the M3 from daily use, its harsh on LA roads with the KWs, fuel economy isn't stellar and i feel bad racking up the miles.
For now I see the M3 as a "forever car" ..never selling.

Over the last week I have seen very aggressive lease deals on new Camaro LT1s, basically a V8 SS with lower quality interior. For around $350 a month it seems like a steal for a 450HP V8 with torque, and decent fuel economy.
I have only read excellent reviews about the chassis dynamics and engine. I expect the interior and visibility to be a downgrade, but for a car to bounce around LA in it seems like the price is right.

Does anyone have experience driving the new Camaros? Is it comfortable enough to drive around town?

Maybe an option is keeping your current M3 as a DD, swapping to stock suspension, then getting a lower mile E9X for a weekend car.

Once a car has 120k on it, trying to 'save it' from miles seems a but pointless to me.

One of the dailies I've enjoyed most is a manual 330, or a manual mini cooper s. That comes way after the enjoyment of DD'ing an M3. An OG M2 would make a really nice DD as well.


Do not be confused about the Camaro: it's going to have the same fuel economy as the M3. Which is objectively bad, but subjectively ok. My X5 35i gets the same fuel economy as any of my M3s.


I've rented the Camaro several times. Having the sightlines of a tank is not conducive to a nice daily driver, but maybe that's just me.

[SAMM3Y]

I know it's not the answer to your question but I see little benefit of having two v8 sports cars. There's got to be some times in your life where you need a bit of utility and sounds like you're chasing a bit of efficiency. I'd recommend something like a GTI.. hatchback fun to drive, trimmed out in the autobahn trim it's a little nicer and has a sunroof. could fit a bbq in it if you've been to Home Depot. 25/30mpgish. Zippy around town.

[br2wdc]

Lot of good points; I also concur that my 330i 6MT was extremely balanced car and a lot of fun to drive with decent MPG.

"Having the sightlines of a tank ... "

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Maybe an option is keeping your current M3 as a DD, swapping to stock suspension, then getting a lower mile E9X for a weekend car.

Once a car has 120k on it, trying to 'save it' from miles seems a but pointless to me.

One of the dailies I've enjoyed most is a manual 330, or a manual mini cooper s. That comes way after the enjoyment of DD'ing an M3. An OG M2 would make a really nice DD as well.


Do not be confused about the Camaro: it's going to have the same fuel economy as the M3. Which is objectively bad, but subjectively ok. My X5 35i gets the same fuel economy as any of my M3s.


I've rented the Camaro several times. Having the sightlines of a tank is not conducive to a nice daily driver, but maybe that's just me.

[MPG_LOL]

Well boys and girls, I bit the bullet.
Everyone has valid points.
I drove the car and it seemed to have what I was looking for, which is a livable ride, a good sounding motor, and a great driving position and steering.
Also at $350 a month and $1,100 down it felt like a great deal.

I thought about how electric cars are going to rule the future, and I thought that since I'm 30 and childless at the moment it would be fun to experience a American V8 pony car while I can and while they still exist.
Old porsches and miata will always be available.
On the practical front , I can fairly easily borrow a Volvo V70 or MK5 GTI when I need real practicality . Without having access to these cars I would NOT get the Camaro.

Here's to celebrating NA V8s while we can

[br2wdc]

Congrats and it's quite an enticing deal, and why not dammit

So no issues with visibility being a sub/tank commander?

Originally Posted by MPG_LOL

Well boys and girls, I bit the bullet.
Everyone has valid points.
I drove the car and it seemed to have what I was looking for, which is a livable ride, a good sounding motor, and a great driving position and steering.
Also at $350 a month and $1,100 down it felt like a great deal.

I thought about how electric cars are going to rule the future, and I thought that since I'm 30 and childless at the moment it would be fun to experience a American V8 pony car while I can and while they still exist.
Old porsches and miata will always be available.
On the practical front , I can fairly easily borrow a Volvo V70 or MK5 GTI when I need real practicality . Without having access to these cars I would NOT get the Camaro.

Here's to celebrating NA V8s while we can

[Richbot]

Depends what you need a car to do daily. Most days, I need to carry one other person and two small bags. Almost anything can "daily" in that way, so long as you've got options if you need to do more.

I think you'll like it. and adapt to "full send just to get it into a parking spot at 1mph"

[MPG_LOL]

I always loved the movie Hunt for Red October 😍

Originally Posted by br2wdc

Congrats and it's quite an enticing deal, and why not dammit

So no issues with visibility being a sub/tank commander?

[br2wdc]

I concur, though I'm more of a Top Gun guy

Note: I have passed this deal onto a few friends, and they are in complete disbelief and checking locally in DC to see what is still available

Originally Posted by MPG_LOL

I always loved the movie Hunt for Red October 😍

[SAMM3Y]

The NA V8 is dead, long live the NA V8! Nice dude...enjoy. I was more projecting my situation on to you with the utility talk. I ended up putting down a deposit on a 4 banger station wagon. I don't even have any kids.. 🤦*♂️

[MPG_LOL]

After getting insurance quotes on this Camaro I might end up wishing I went with a 4 banger station wagon... getting quoted in the mid $300s a month for insurance..is that normal?? I have a clean record .

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

The NA V8 is dead, long live the NA V8! Nice dude...enjoy. I was more projecting my situation on to you with the utility talk. I ended up putting down a deposit on a 4 banger station wagon. I don't even have any kids.. 🤦*♂️

[MPG_LOL]

You technically have to be a current lessee of a non GM vehicle but they waived it for me , most dealers wouldn't.
Even limited to 4000rpm for break in the LT1 is jaw dropping fast. I forget what torque was with the S65.

Originally Posted by br2wdc

I concur, though I'm more of a Top Gun guy

Note: I have passed this deal onto a few friends, and they are in complete disbelief and checking locally in DC to see what is still available

[br2wdc]

With auto insurance there are a ton of factors including: Insurance company, gender, age, address, number of drivers (especially teen drivers), mix of cars, etc ...

So $300+ a month might make sense depending on factors above.

For example a good friend of mine who is with State Farm or Allstate was paying $6k/yr with two teen drivers and 4 cars. He recently made a couple of calls to get quotes, and found Progressive/Geico for about 50% less per year.

Certainly worth your time to make a few calls, because some insurance companies charge a premium for certain performance cars.

Originally Posted by MPG_LOL

After getting insurance quotes on this Camaro I might end up wishing I went with a 4 banger station wagon... getting quoted in the mid $300s a month for insurance..is that normal?? I have a clean record .

[SAMM3Y]

Rates on that car must be high... they went up a few years ago on the e92 m3's as they got a little cheaper and became a higher claim risk for the insurance co.'s. Your minimums on a lease probably have to be higher too, I would imagine If it becomes a total loss the factory doesn't want to take a hit on the depreciation, it'll be like paying gap insurance on a loan.