Blown engine

[BayE30]

im confused, so does Scrippy have BE or WPC bearings? his 2 posts linked here state different bearings and mileage...

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

I thought so too SYT. Believe Scrippy is a guy who takes care of his engine which means the shells wear even whith 0.0025 inch "industri standard" oil clearance.

Or, also the BE shells came out a tad tighter that expected. Been discussing this a bit back and forth with Robert over M3Cutters.

Originally Posted by strokemycocktus

I think I have already seen it and it was 98k and WPC bearings
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22895612

Originally Posted by SFCM3

im confused, so does Scrippy have BE or WPC bearings? his 2 posts linked here state different bearings and mileage...

Yeah, it's very confusing. Here's a link to his first set of bearings changed on a car bought at 40000 miles, not 25000. They were changed at EAS 7-months before BE Bearings were first sold. EAS has only installed one set of BE Bearings that I know, and it wasn't 7-months before the first sale.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17946174

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Yeah, it's very confusing. Here's a link to his first set of bearings changed on a car bought at 40000 miles, not 25000. They were changed at EAS 7-months before BE Bearings were first sold. EAS has only installed one set of BE Bearings that I know, and it wasn't 7-months before the first sale.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17946174

Scrippy confirmed he had WPC shells. No harm, no foul. It was an honest mistake.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=23

[Helmsman]

Ah, good answer to that then!

Green-Eggs, while we're at it, has there been any BE shells out with fair mileage yet?

Thx

[BPMSport]

SVT, have you ever had the internal logging data pulled from your car? For example, the car stores the number of misfires per cylinder, number of misfires that could cause potential catalyst damage per cylinder, and a number of other things that would be interesting to know.

BMW's calibration has a huge loophole for misfire detection in my opinion, and I think that this could be beating up internals over a long period of time.

For instance, I have seen a number of instances where there are 5 times the amount of events occurring in one cylinder as compared to another. I've also seen instances where it's 50x more, but the car doesn't throw a fault because it escapes the criteria needed for events per number of crankshaft revolutions.

In my case years ago, when my bearings were pulled, #3 was the worst looking one, and the data revealed that #3 had more combustion issues over time.

Another interesting thing to note is injector quality. We had a car that we chased for a long period of time to isolate a knock issue. It wouldn't do it full throttle, but at certain loads it was pretty apparent. Changed plugs, coils, o2 sensors, etc... Issue still persisted. Customer asked that we make a custom file to pull timing in certain areas. This solved the issue for the most part, but of course had a performance reduction. The injectors were sent out to get flow tested, and it turned out that half of the injectors had severely reduced flow, one of them was 30+% down. This is something that could also contribute to failures over time and fly under the fault code radar unnoticed.

[SAMM3Y]

.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

SVT, have you ever had the internal logging data pulled from your car? For example, the car stores the number of misfires per cylinder, number of misfires that could cause potential catalyst damage per cylinder, and a number of other things that would be interesting to know.

BMW's calibration has a huge loophole for misfire detection in my opinion, and I think that this could be beating up internals over a long period of time.

For instance, I have seen a number of instances where there are 5 times the amount of events occurring in one cylinder as compared to another. I've also seen instances where it's 50x more, but the car doesn't throw a fault because it escapes the criteria needed for events per number of crankshaft revolutions.

In my case years ago, when my bearings were pulled, #3 was the worst looking one, and the data revealed that #3 had more combustion issues over time.

Another interesting thing to note is injector quality. We had a car that we chased for a long period of time to isolate a knock issue. It wouldn't do it full throttle, but at certain loads it was pretty apparent. Changed plugs, coils, o2 sensors, etc... Issue still persisted. Customer asked that we make a custom file to pull timing in certain areas. This solved the issue for the most part, but of course had a performance reduction. The injectors were sent out to get flow tested, and it turned out that half of the injectors had severely reduced flow, one of them was 30+% down. This is something that could also contribute to failures over time and fly under the fault code radar unnoticed.

Can you describe the symptoms that made you realize there was a knock issue at certain loads?

[BPMSport]

It's a complaint we've seen in stock form over the years, mainly with light to medium throttle between 2,000 and 2,800 RPM.

I could audibly hear the knock, have a very "tuned" ear to it. Walking down the street I hear cars knocking left and right..

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

BMW's calibration has a huge loophole for misfire detection in my opinion, and I think that this could be beating up internals over a long period of time.

For instance, I have seen a number of instances where there are 5 times the amount of events occurring in one cylinder as compared to another. I've also seen instances where it's 50x more, but the car doesn't throw a fault because it escapes the criteria needed for events per number of crankshaft revolutions.

In my case years ago, when my bearings were pulled, #3 was the worst looking one, and the data revealed that #3 had more combustion issues over time.

How easy is it to pull the internal logging data?
It would be interesting to see if its a regular effect.

[cvstar9M3]

Wow, a lot of learning while reading this thread.

[BKrunner]

bttt, let's see them BE bearings please SYT.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by BKrunner

bttt, let's see them BE bearings please SYT.

the engine is still in the car but should be out shortly for the new one to go in

it's hard to believe it's almost been a year since this happened. Good thing I have another M3 to keep me going!

[StripclubDJ]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

the engine is still in the car but should be out shortly for the new one to go in

it's hard to believe it's almost been a year since this happened. Good thing I have another M3 to keep me going!

Must be nice lol


How many double session track days did this motor see?
Not that it matters but just wanna know how much fun you got out of it before she checked out

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by StripclubDJ

Must be nice lol


How many double session track days did this motor see?
Not that it matters but just wanna know how much fun you got out of it before she checked out

Under 200, over 100.

Plenty of fun for sure. Can't wait for the new one!

[ItsGary]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

It's a complaint we've seen in stock form over the years, mainly with light to medium throttle between 2,000 and 2,800 RPM.

I could audibly hear the knock, have a very "tuned" ear to it. Walking down the street I hear cars knocking left and right..

Next time would it be possible to record audio of this?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

the engine is still in the car but should be out shortly for the new one to go in

it's hard to believe it's almost been a year since this happened. Good thing I have another M3 to keep me going!

Yeah, realize it must be a bummer to get the blown out, looking forward to see those rod shells though!

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

An interesting thing about cams: I got 284s because per the internet those are the biggest you can use on an S65 and maintain VANOS.
Well, my brother got in touch with Schrick in Germany and confirmed what I suspected: The 292 cams were designed for use with VANOS and only require additional supporting mods... aka Schrick springs and retainers.
I haven't pulled the trigger on the 292s but I feel very, very tempted

Same thing with the S54. You can go with a lot more lift than 12.5mm, and more than 288 duration (unlike the catalog states) and still have full double vanos operation.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MisterEm

Same thing with the S54. You can go with a lot more lift than 12.5mm, and more than 288 duration (unlike the catalog states) and still have full double vanos operation.

Interesting thing in the case of the S65 is the schrick guy couldn't believe people say you can't use 292s and retain vanos. He was almost upset

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Interesting thing in the case of the S65 is the schrick guy couldn't believe people say you can't use 292s and retain vanos. He was almost upset

I had to stop replying to cam threads a few years ago. So much bad information from vendors, nerdy mods and cyber repair shops. Nobody believes the catalog is wrong. Schrick will give you 4 different answers for PTV issues if you call, as you found out.

I've been running 284/292 14.5mm lift cams with dual vanos (Crower) for years. Neat thing with Crower (and Cat), they will help you test and verify adequate clearance when going big... especially with higher comp and custom pistons.

Call schrick about big cams, vanos and custom pistons and they will tell you to LS swap it.

[SYT_Shadow]

All

The car is operational again! Finally got the new engine swapped in.

I have not taken apart the old one, it'll happen one day and I'll post the results here.

It feels wonderful to have 3 M3s that run!!!

[Merlin_83]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

It's a complaint we've seen in stock form over the years, mainly with light to medium throttle between 2,000 and 2,800 RPM.

I could audibly hear the knock, have a very "tuned" ear to it. Walking down the street I hear cars knocking left and right..

Mike, can I pay to have a diagnostic report specific to the injectors? Or is the misfires report all that can be used to determine the performance of them?

I'm really wondering now about this issue and in relation to lean fuel/air mixes in individual cylinders and how this may affect bearings.

Is there a mileage or service interval that even addresses when injectors need to be pulled and checked for even and consistent spray patterns?

BTW - Mike, thanks again for coding my Sirius/XM satellite code last year! It's been great having Stern, Sports and Fox News Channels !!

[Icecreamfoo]

Originally Posted by Merlin_83

Mike, can I pay to have a diagnostic report specific to the injectors? Or is the misfires report all that can be used to determine the performance of them?

I'm really wondering now about this issue and in relation to lean fuel/air mixes in individual cylinders and how this may affect bearings.

Is there a mileage or service interval that even addresses when injectors need to be pulled and checked for even and consistent spray patterns?

BTW - Mike, thanks again for coding my Sirius/XM satellite code last year! It's been great having Stern, Sports and Fox News Channels !!

I was that unlucky guy who was chasing the mysterious pre-det with Mike for like 2+ years. Major props to him as he was really patient, always willing to listen, and eager to formulate a new angle of attack. Still, in my case it was mostly a process of elimination before finally pinning down to injectors as my DME had never threw an engine related fault code.

my old injectors' "horrendous" flow test results were posted in another thread last yr, see post #47 https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...1532390&page=3 Unless they are pulled out of the engine, there's really no other way to tell how your injectors are actually doing, i feel.

My bearings were changed back in 2015 with whatever EAS was recommending at the time, this was well before BEs came out, and I've ran my engine with the ridiculous pre-det knocking for 3 full years (+40k miles) after that. At some point in the future I do plan on pulling the current bearings out to see how they have fared + swapping in the BEs

Looking forward to see SYT's old engine tear down results