Track days: M3 or Camaro SS 1LE?

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Mjhyslop

+1 on the visibility. I hate the design of the windrows on the camaro. I'm 6'7 and just don't sit well in it and thought visability was terrible, although this was a few years ago on a regular camaro so I don't know if they have changed the seating and cabin. Other than that this appears about the best bang for buck for a track toy from what I've read. Go drive one to see if your M is worth getting rid of.

Odd. I too am 6’7” and have a lot of seat time in a 16SS. I thought the visibility issues were overblown and maybe my height was helping. I guess not.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

What's the long list? The only one I am aware of is some are experiencing increased oil consumption.

The same as all M4s crank hubs are about to spin and all S65 bearings are about to fly out.

[GT3fan]

According to Motor Trend, the SS 1LE was only 7 seconds (1:20.67 vs 1:27.67) quicker around the Streets of Willow compared to a 2011 e92 ZCP.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by AMG2M3

According to Motor Trend, the SS 1LE was only 7 seconds (1:20.67 vs 1:27.67) quicker around the Streets of Willow compared to a 2011 e92 ZCP.

Only? 7 seconds is a lot on a short track.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Only? 7 seconds is a lot on a short track.

Agreed, 7 seconds on an 80-second lap is an eternity. That's nearly 10%.

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Only? 7 seconds is a lot on a short track.

Originally Posted by dparm

Agreed, 7 seconds on an 80-second lap is an eternity. That's nearly 10%.

It was just a little sarcasm.

The more I read about the new 1LE the more impressed I get. I need to drive one to see how it is overall.

If my m3 was a daily the Camaro wouldn’t show up on my radar. However, I drive mine minimally and want to have something fun for the track that I can feel comfortable beating on it.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by AMG2M3

According to Motor Trend, the SS 1LE was only 7 seconds (1:20.67 vs 1:27.67) quicker around the Streets of Willow compared to a 2011 e92 ZCP.

Several things...

1. A test done 7 years ago, Willow springs since then has gotten a lot of it repaved and is quite a bit faster not to mention if the test wasn't done on the same day it really don't matter.

2. The 2011 ZCP car was on Contisportcontact 3s, even back then it was a mediocre tire. In fact in that test Randy said that the car had quite a bit more understeer than the previous car he had tested there with the Mich PS2s.

3. A lot of the SS 1LEs prowess is from the massive amount of rubber on that car (to the Camaros credit). I for one can't even begin to tell you on how much better the E92 M3 is with more rubber on the car. I would love to see a 275/295 setup tested against it. The 245/265 setup was a joke. The 1LE runs a 285/305 setup.

Don't get me wrong, my hats off to the Camaro and the Mustang..its so nice to see them doing such good things.

Dave

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Several things...

1. A test done 7 years ago, Willow springs since then has gotten a lot of it repaved and is quite a bit faster not to mention if the test wasn't done on the same day it really don't matter.

2. The 2011 ZCP car was on Contisportcontact 3s, even back then it was a mediocre tire. In fact in that test Randy said that the car had quite a bit more understeer than the previous car he had tested there with the Mich PS2s.

3. A lot of the SS 1LEs prowess is from the massive amount of rubber on that car (to the Camaros credit). I for one can't even begin to tell you on how much better the E92 M3 is with more rubber on the car. I would love to see a 275/295 setup tested against it. The 245/265 setup was a joke. The 1LE runs a 285/305 setup.

Don't get me wrong, my hats off to the Camaro and the Mustang..its so nice to see them doing such good things.

Dave

very good point regarding the much wider and more advanced tires on the 1LE.

[dbyrd]

I love my M3, and I have it set up just like I want it for dual duty with 15ish track days per year. RBs done and >$10k worth of track-oriented mods - see my signature below. That said, I was blown away by how fast an out-of-the-box SS 1LE is. I was running at the track with a buddy that paid under $40k. He was 2-3 seconds faster than me - I only kept him in sight due to traffic.

Say what you want about the interior, etc., but the SS 1LE is an amazingly great value for such a fast car at the track. Here's some video - skip to around 18 minutes in to see the Viper go off and some time with the Camaro. Better yet, skip to 21 minutes in when I completely catch up to him in traffic.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Fam, why do you have a Porsche gauge cluster overlay?

[Visceral]

I'm always fascinated by the connection between absolute track times and the perception that people have that they'll have more fun at an HPDE.

The video above sort of proves it... What's more fun (seriously)... waiting in traffic in a fast car or working hard in a slower car to catch up to the fast car that got stuck in traffic?

I personally bought a slower car because my faster car spent most of it's time in HPDE traffic, which I'd argue is much more risky than driving hard to catch up to traffic.

[Visceral]

I should add that I think the SS 1LE or 5.0 GT PP2 are both really compelling options.

- Durability
- Cost and availability of consumables
- Connection between driver skill and experience and enjoyment

With the Magna-ride, they're even quite tolerable on the street (for the ride home from the track or to the AutoX... as road cars or daily drivers, I wouldnt enjoy the interior/experience of either.)

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Visceral

I'm always fascinated by the connection between absolute track times and the perception that people have that they'll have more fun at an HPDE.

The video above sort of proves it... What's more fun (seriously)... waiting in traffic in a fast car or working hard in a slower car to catch up to the fast car that got stuck in traffic?

I personally bought a slower car because my faster car spent most of it's time in HPDE traffic, which I'd argue is much more risky than driving hard to catch up to traffic.

This sounds like the "Miatas are the best track cars" / "driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow" meme.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by dparm

This sounds like the "Miatas are the best track cars" / "driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow" meme.

It's true, but I can't go all the way to a Miata. Each time I buy one I get tired of slumping in the seat to fit under the top and I sell it a few months later.

TBH, the E90 is my "Miata" for tall people. Its the same theory. The E90 is a slow car with incredible character and handling with reasonable consumable costs and strong after-market support.

The SS 1LE is the opposite.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Visceral

It's true, but I can't go all the way to a Miata. Each time I buy one I get tired of slumping in the seat to fit under the top and I sell it a few months later.

TBH, the E90 is my "Miata" for tall people. Its the same theory. The E90 is a slow car with incredible character and handling with reasonable consumable costs and strong after-market support.

The SS 1LE is the opposite.

I wouldn't call an E90 M3 slow, nor would I say the SS 1LE is the opposite to the M3. They're more similar than you might think.

[ayao]

Given that you can find a ~2016 SS 1LE or a C6 Z06 for ~$35-40k ... I’m wondering which one makes the better dual-duty track weapon?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by ayao

Given that you can find a ~2016 SS 1LE or a C6 Z06 for ~$35-40k ... I’m wondering which one makes the better dual-duty track weapon?

The SS 1LE wasn't out until 2017.

I would much rather have the 1LE. Better tech, more modern car. Sure it doesn't have the amazing 7.0L LS3 motor in the Z06, but the LT1 is no slouch.

[Chris_PDX]

I had the pleasure of instructing someone in an SS just two weeks ago, and I have to say it started to change my opinion of the Camaro as a sports car.

Visibility not withstanding, it handled great. He had an after market supercharger but stock suspension, and it handled really well. Brakes however, sucked. We caught his front right pads on fire in the second session.

He also got a check engine light and the sport traction control switched off by itself, which I assume was due to the after market engine mods.

But as a chassis, I was really, really impressed.

[M43S7RO]

1LE has been around, on and off, for a long time. Most recently reintroduced in 2013 5th gen Camaro. I was considering one before settling on the M3 a couple years back.

Originally Posted by dparm

The SS 1LE wasn't out until 2017.

I would much rather have the 1LE. Better tech, more modern car. Sure it doesn't have the amazing 7.0L LS3 motor in the Z06, but the LT1 is no slouch.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by M43S7RO

1LE has been around, on and off, for a long time. Most recently reintroduced in 2013 5th gen Camaro. I was considering one before settling on the M3 a couple years back.

Yeah, sorry, what I meant was that the 1LE package wasn't available on the 6th-gen until 2017.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by dparm

This sounds like the "Miatas are the best track cars" / "driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow" meme.

Mx-5s are fast... if driven properly.

Albeit a different circuit, Z3 1.9 has better cornering capabilities than Mx-5s stock to stock from data at Central Circuit so I am looking forward to setting up mine end of this month.

[macdude357]

I was discussing the newer Camaro's with a guy at the track a couple of months ago. He said he could not fit his helmet through the open window when he went to test drive one so he said "no thanks". Something to think about.