E92 M3 - Metallic clunk / grind on cold start (With 3 Videos + Image of Noise)

[s85e90]

LOL at the pump the brake and hold it for 30 seconds. Who comes up with this crap???

[anom3]

It would be intresting to get a step by step of how the ECU performs a cold start.

Perhaps we can see what happens about 0.5 secs after the motor has been ignited.

Maybe one of the DME wizards on here have this info?

Maybe someone knows where / if this kind of information is available?

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Pesonal i think when looking at your noise and clunk noise graphics through the spectrum analyzer it's not the starter ,it comes later when engine starts to run !
It is also in this way when i hear it on mine !
Note ; Like i said yesterday this thread (link of ) is now at my BMW/Dealer,last year my car was a few times there for this problem but my engine did not make the clunk noise, because it drove the car to my dealer and was warmed up !
And i'm waiting now for answers ,because they are looking into the Puma-Database...... i'm curious and let's hope !
Will post the result as soon when i receive it !

[anom3]

If there is a check valve allowing oil to drain over night I would like to have it repaired thanks.

Originally Posted by s85e90

NORMAL, NORMAL, NORMAL.


I can't imagine why you guys go to the lengths you do.. Analyzing the noise via spectrum analyzer, lol!!!


This is a normal noise and probaly due to some check valve that allows the oil to drain back overnight or when the car sits. Think about when you change you oil. Unless you prime the motor (crank w/out starting to build oil pressure) the first start after an oil change makes some noise as the engine has no oil in it for a split second until it's running.

Yes, the noise is annoying, but it is what it is (BTW both my M3 have done this)

[Race_Doc11]

I came up with this "crap" smart ass. I'm not sure if I have the same noise that every one else has but this "crap" does it for me I tried starting the car with and without the brake "crap" more than 100 times and everytime I get the same result...One more thing my car is the oppsite when I dont drive it for few days there is NO noise I only get the noise when I drive it everyday...It is NOT normal otherwise every single M3 should have which is clearly not the case.

Originally Posted by s85e90

LOL at the pump the brake and hold it for 30 seconds. Who comes up with this crap???

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by anom3

It would be intresting to get a step by step of how the ECU performs a cold start.

Perhaps we can see what happens about 0.5 secs after the motor has been ignited.

Maybe one of the DME wizards on here have this info?

Maybe someone knows where / if this kind of information is available?

Just right now on the phone with my BMW/Dealer they still looking at PUMA !

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by anom3

If there is a check valve allowing oil to drain over night I would like to have it repaired thanks.

Maybe there's nothing to fix. A search would yield numerous people having the same exact noise that's described in this thread. I personally have had this issue on 2 seprate cars. I wouldn't worry about somehting that isn't broken.. Unless you're saying yours is broken? Otherwise we're perpetuating a problem that doesn't exist.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by racedoc11

I came with this "crap" smart ass. I'm not sure if I have the same noise that every one else has but this "crap" does it for me I tried starting the car with and without the brake "crap" more than 100 times and everytime I get the same result...

Said it yourself...

[Race_Doc11]

Please keep us posted.

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Just right now on the phone with my BMW/Dealer they still looking at PUMA !

[anom3]

Say what you want, for a split second it sounds like terminator took a shit in my motor.

That kind of noise (especially the 3rd video) cant be proper / normal.

Metal on metal noises _tend_ to foreshadow bad things to come.

Worst case I'll have some new parts in my motor that are not THAT far away from the end of their life cycle (replacing starter + solenoid, and 4 check valves early next week).

Originally Posted by s85e90

Maybe there's nothing to fix. A search would yield numerous people having the same exact noise that's described in this thread. I personally have had this issue on 2 seprate cars. I wouldn't worry about somehting that isn't broken.. Unless you're saying yours is broken? Otherwise we're perpetuating a problem that doesn't exist.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by anom3

Say what you want, for a split second it sounds like terminator took a shit in my motor.

That kind of noise (especially the 3rd video) cant be proper / normal.

Metal on metal noises _tend_ to foreshadow bad things to come.

Worst case I'll have some new parts in my motor that are not THAT far away from the end of their life cycle (replacing starter + solenoid, and 4 check valves early next week).

Oh, I def hear ya.. The sound is terrible, and def doesn't sound good and makes me shudder each time I hear it.

Curious to hear your results from what you find.. Keep us in the loop !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by racedoc11

Please keep us posted.

Will do,will post ! No prob. !
When they know more they let me know via phone....Email !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by s85e90

LOL at the pump the brake and hold it for 30 seconds. Who comes up with this crap???

It's realy unbelievable but the"crap" works ! Told it also to my BMW/Dealer !
BTW...the "crap" came from racedoc11 and actualy i'm very glad he told it on here !
Conclusion.....
So with "crap" no clunk....without "crap" clunk !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by anom3

If there is a check valve allowing oil to drain over night I would like to have it repaired thanks.

Please wait with repairing,they will look further tomorrow !And will wait a couple of days but not longer !!! No way.....
Best thing is to know what caused the clunk noise before to open the engine !
That's what i said on the phone too ,i would never needless open up my engine,only when they know 100 % sure the cause of the clunk than they can get my car ! So not give it a try....but a solution and with result !
Note ; When i get no anser...no solution of them,than i will sent this thread and the video's to Bornem, BMW///M-Test Center/Belgium !
Mmmmm......we will see ?!?!

[anom3]

So, just maybe... I have a small development.

Before I say what, here are a couple things to keep in mind:

A) In my situation, this noise / clunk / grind is VERY consistent. Meaning, if I ever let the car sit for 4 or so hours, it WILL make it on first cold start. Period. Every time.

B) The car has not actually been driven since Sunday. I have done a couple of long warm ups tho. 30+ minutes, engine temp reached 75c (1/4 arrow). I was actually installing a new speaker under the seat since mine was blown. After I decided to adjust my after market amplifier since some songs didnt sound quite right. I did this with the motor on and it was a bit of a long process, back and forth trunk to seat etc etc etc...

C) So... Before even writing here, I read everything on this forum about this fairly consistent noise. I noticed this post by Mike B:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=133

He mentioned a "flash"... As in, front head lights. ( Watch the video in Mike B post above, the flash can be seen there too... )

I have this same flash. I always assumed this was the bulb check (probably is...).

But since there is no clear concensus on what this grind / clunk / noise could be, I thought, hell maybe its related.

So last night, after the car sat for 5 hours, I did the following:

1) Turned lights off to "0".
2) I have my CIC coded so I can disable day time running lights, so I turned them off.
3) Essentially at this point, there is NO lights whatever. Even if the car is on or off.
4) I started the ignition.
5) NO NOISE.

So at this point I thought, ok maybe it has not been long enough, I will try again in the morning.

Did the same thing again just now, car has been sitting for about 16 hours.

NO NOISE.

So, I will let it sit again for another 8 hours (9PM my time here), and try again.

Please bare in mind point B above... The car has had 2 really long warm ups, but not actually been driven since Sunday midnight.

Last note, for those who want to test this theory but cannot disable their day time running lights (it needs to be coded into the CIC or the option does not show up on the menu)... Maybe for a start or two... Unplug all front head lights?

I could be way off, but I thought I would report my findings so far.

Fingers crossed! (Maybe this is power related... As in the oil pump does not get enough power during a cold start... Or maybe the starter solenoid doesn't get enough power to pull out the starter gear fast enough?)

[anom3]

On a related note, I just got the quote from my mechanic regarding changing the starter and 4 check valves... Bare in mind, European prices, 23% VAT tax included. All parts original OEM brand new ordered from BMW Germany.

Starter + Solenoid Part cost : $848
Labor to install Starter : $329

Check valves (4 total) Part cost : $84
Labor to install check valves : $550

All prices converted from PLN (Polish Zloty to USD).

I expect the labor to be on the cheaper side compared to the US, but parts more expensive since BMW OEM parts seam to be more here compared to the US.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by anom3

On a related note, I just got the quote from my mechanic regarding changing the starter and 4 check valves... Bare in mind, European prices, 23% VAT tax included. All parts original OEM brand new ordered from BMW Germany.

Starter + Solenoid Part cost : $848
Labor to install Starter : $329

Check valves (4 total) Part cost : $84
Labor to install check valves : $550

All prices converted from PLN (Polish Zloty to USD).

I expect the labor to be on the cheaper side compared to the US, but parts more expensive since BMW OEM parts seam to be more here compared to the US.

About the flash in Mike's video ,is it the flash at 21 sec runtime ?
Never seen this flash on mine ,and last year i drove a couple of months without day time lights ,so with "day time lights off",and had all the time the clunk noise !
So sadly personal i think we need to search into another direction ?
About the price above it's $1811USD that would be ok for me,but only when i'm sure it will repaire our problem !
BTW...Still waiting for news from my BMW/Dealer....no Email, no phone ?!?!
Within 1 hour they are closed,so within 30 min i'm on the phone again !!!

[anom3]

yeah i know, its a long shot.

---

regarding the starter + valve change.

if it does it again in about 3-4 hours (car has been sitting 3.5 hours now), i will proceed with the repairs.

i will see if i can keep the same price if i first do check valves then starter seperate.

but because of the higher labor price of changing check valves, i think i will be able to.

---

oh, also regarding the flashing light. i have just disabled all bulb checks on the car. i saved my settings in a backup file, so going back no problem.

we'll see how it goes...

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

About the flash in Mike's video ,is it the flash at 21 sec runtime ?
Never seen this flash on mine ,and last year i drove a couple of months without day time lights ,so with "day time lights off",and had all the time the clunk noise !
So sadly personal i think we need to search into another direction ?
About the price above it's $1811USD that would be ok for me,but only when i'm sure it will repaire our problem !
BTW...Still waiting for news from my BMW/Dealer....no Email, no phone ?!?!
Within 1 hour they are closed,so within 30 min i'm on the phone again !!!

[s85e90]

Just an FYI but letting the car idle to warm up and not drive it is also very bad for the car and shouldn't be done. It's your money, but if it ain't broke why spend money attempting to fix something that you don't know needs replacement.

[anom3]

did not know this re. warming up the car :/

will not be doing that no more.

in regards to gettting something fixed... i just want that noise gone, it sounds horrible... am willing to spend some money fixing it too.

Originally Posted by s85e90

Just an FYI but letting the car idle to warm up and not drive it is also very bad for the car and shouldn't be done. It's your money, but if it ain't broke why spend money attempting to fix something that you don't know needs replacement.

[anom3]

so the noise is back, this is not related to the light flash.

check valves ordered, will be installed early next week.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=15&hl=17

group #16 on the above diagram.

*fingers crossed!*

[V8FunNaturally]

Didn't you guys notice all people who have this clunk noise are running a software tune (specifically MPower Belgium and anom3 have BPM tune). And what's funny Mike Benvo says he heard this noise in all the cars he tuned over the internet.

I have always been against messing up with the ECU through third party ODB2 hackers. My car is stock and no noise whatsoever. You might not even be aware of things the BPM software does besides what he tells you or he thinks it does. I am not questionning his integrity, just that it's playing with fire.
Nobody knows their car better than BMW. Flipping bits in the software you might run the car in a problematic mode that was not tested by BMW (yes, OEM software can have bugs when you don't run the run of the mill normal stock code).

Any 3rd party software hackers better had make you sign a waiver or you can sue him for damages (parts and labor).

[BrewRifle]

So there isn't a stock M3 around that is making this noise, it's only tuned ones? If that's the case, it has me interested.