BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wash, Wax, Detail, Cosmetic Maintenance & Repairs
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-29-2019, 03:24 PM   #1
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3848
Rep
8,625
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Random orbital on ceramic coated paint?

So I found my old Porter-Cable 7424XP in a box the other day and am trying to understand if I can even use it on my car given that it has an Xpel clear bra on some panels, and Cquartz on all of the panels. The Cquartz is only about 2 years old and should be in good shape.

I've seen conflicting info that says anything you do to the ceramic coating, especially with a machine, will remove most of it and you'll have to re-coat the panel. But this kinda sounds like something detailers will claim in order to keep you coming back to them. Redoing the coating won't be too hard the second time since the surface was already prepped for the original application, but I'm trying to figure out if I really have to take the car back to my detailer for him to fix stuff and re-apply the Cquartz. He's an hour away and leaving the car with him is kinda tricky.

The car has picked up a few scratches and blemishes from normal use and I'd like to remove them myself, if possible.

Are there any products or procedures that would be considered "ceramic coating safe" with a random orbital? If so, what are they and are there any special pads I need to use
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP

Last edited by dparm; 12-29-2019 at 03:41 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2019, 03:51 PM   #2
wfdeacon88
Major
1103
Rep
1,389
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Triad, NC

iTrader: (0)

Assuming the scratches are on the clearcoat under the coating, then the polishing would have to remove the ceramic coating. If they are light enough to potentially be on the coating, which I don't know if that is possible, then maybe it's easier to apply a nice wax or sealant to the ceramic and maybe it will slightly hide the light scratches. But my guess would be the ceramic coating would be toast with any sort of machining.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2019, 03:52 PM   #3
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3848
Rep
8,625
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
Assuming the scratches are on the clearcoat under the coating, then the polishing would have to remove the ceramic coating. If they are light enough to potentially be on the coating, which I don't know if that is possible, then maybe it's easier to apply a nice wax or sealant to the ceramic and maybe it will slightly hide the light scratches. But my guess would be the ceramic coating would be toast with any sort of machining.
This is pretty much the conclusion I reached, and why I'm not sure I'd do ceramic coating ever again.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 1
wfdeacon881102.50
      12-29-2019, 04:00 PM   #4
wfdeacon88
Major
1103
Rep
1,389
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Triad, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
Assuming the scratches are on the clearcoat under the coating, then the polishing would have to remove the ceramic coating. If they are light enough to potentially be on the coating, which I don't know if that is possible, then maybe it's easier to apply a nice wax or sealant to the ceramic and maybe it will slightly hide the light scratches. But my guess would be the ceramic coating would be toast with any sort of machining.
This is pretty much the conclusion I reached, and why I'm not sure I'd do ceramic coating ever again.
Yeah as much as I'd enjoy the benefits of easier washes, etc... it would be restrictive on other aspects. I think if I ever get a coating I'll be applying myself so the $ investment is small.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2019, 04:31 PM   #5
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3848
Rep
8,625
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wfdeacon88 View Post
Yeah as much as I'd enjoy the benefits of easier washes, etc... it would be restrictive on other aspects. I think if I ever get a coating I'll be applying myself so the $ investment is small.
The coating itself isn't that expensive, it's the labor-intensive prep work that really jacks up the price.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2019, 07:39 AM   #6
ghostofsenna
First Lieutenant
130
Rep
364
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, E93 M3, E91 328xi, S4
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Hey Dan - I've too forgone the coating except on wheels (and I've applied the wheel coating to my headlight lenses) for the reason that I enjoy detailing my car with the fresh wax look.

Here's a solution: sell the vette and get back into an M3 without ceramic coating?
__________________
2011.75 E90 M3 ZCP, 6sp, Interlagos Blue
2008 E93 M3, DCT, Melbourne Red
2007 E91 328xi Touring Wagon, Jet Black
2007 Audi B7 S4, 6sp, Sprint Blue
Sold: E70 X5M, E46 M3 6sp cabriolet, E46 M3 SMG
Appreciate 1
dparm3848.00
      12-31-2019, 10:08 PM   #7
admranger
Retired Curmudgeon
admranger's Avatar
United_States
2982
Rep
4,046
Posts

Drives: ‘19 X3M40i, ‘18 m550i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
This is pretty much the conclusion I reached, and why I'm not sure I'd do ceramic coating ever again.
I’m not sure your cquartz is still good much after 2 years. It’s not a forever coating. Mine lasted 2 years on my old M3 but it was garaged day and night. Only saw the sun while driving to/from work or the track.

You’re gonna take ceramic coating off when you polish.
__________________

'19 X3 M40 Carbon Black/Oyster, '23 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Summit, Past BMWs: '18 M550i, '18 330 GT, '16 X5 40e, '11 E90M3, '06 X5 4.4, '03 330i ZHP, '02 M3, '97 Z3 2.8, '95 M3 (2x), '94 530i (manual), '92 525i (manual), '88 M3, '87 325iS
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2019, 10:14 PM   #8
roastbeef
Lieutenant General
roastbeef's Avatar
United_States
11572
Rep
12,711
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (4)

i'm an ameature detailer at best, but i do follow a few youtubers and the basic idea of polishing is taking a micro layer off of the clear coat. so i maybe use a polishing wheel and see if it gets rid of imperfections on top of the ceramic coat? a cutting wheel would probably get rid of the ceramic coat...
__________________
Instagram; @roastbeefmike
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2020, 11:34 PM   #9
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3848
Rep
8,625
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

I talked to my detailer in person today, and he confirmed that yes, anything mechanical (like a DA) will remove the coating. Re-applying shouldn't be too tough since you know the surface underneath was properly prepped and has stayed largely untouched since then.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 2
roastbeef11571.50
      01-07-2020, 07:47 PM   #10
Camnyc
wannabe
252
Rep
819
Posts

Drives: E90 LCI M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: nyc

iTrader: (3)

carpro essence plus with the carpro white gloss pad on your polisher will do the trick. You will actually refresh the coating during this process and remove some of the defects you are seeing.
__________________
E90 M3 - 6speed - slicktop - single hump
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2020, 07:54 PM   #11
BayE30
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1341
Rep
1,881
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camnyc View Post
carpro essence plus with the carpro white gloss pad on your polisher will do the trick. You will actually refresh the coating during this process and remove some of the defects you are seeing.
and it preps the surface for another layer of ceramic
__________________
I am never able to post pictures on forums, all my pics are on IG @baye30 https://www.instagram.com/baye30/
Current Garage - [2011 E90 M3 ZCP] [2005 E53 X5 3.0 Sport] [1988 E30 325IS 24V]
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2020, 09:29 AM   #12
//steve\\
Major
//steve\\'s Avatar
United_States
1074
Rep
1,026
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
I’m not sure your cquartz is still good much after 2 years. It’s not a forever coating. Mine lasted 2 years on my old M3 but it was garaged day and night. Only saw the sun while driving to/from work or the track.

You’re gonna take ceramic coating off when you polish.

My experience is the same with cquartz UK 2.0 on my wife's car. It's help up pretty well on the upper half of the car but after 2 years it's non-existent on the lower half of the car. These aren't miracle products.

I'm still unsure if I'm going to coat this car again or just go back to a traditional sealant. I liked cquartz but I won't use it again over Gtechniq CSL which I used on my previous S2000. Much easier application and will last the same or longer.


Also, to answer the OP's original question, polishing the coating absolutely will degrade or remove it. No questions about that.
Appreciate 1
admranger2981.50
      01-08-2020, 01:30 PM   #13
Ngilbe36
Captain
Ngilbe36's Avatar
United_States
1619
Rep
880
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3, 2019 F150
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
I would doubt there is much of any coating left on the car after 2 years. I would go back through another full prep before re-coating.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2020, 09:30 PM   #14
Camnyc
wannabe
252
Rep
819
Posts

Drives: E90 LCI M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: nyc

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
and it preps the surface for another layer of ceramic
Jury is still out on that. the essence plus was made for coated finishes, its a light cleaner w/o abrasives. It does contain sio2 and some other solvents, It will actually "Correct" some defects in the coating w/o removing the coating. In theory you could do an IPA wipe after and layer another coat of ceramic.

I used it on my f80 two years after initial coating, it did a bang up job of correcting and refreshing, I topped it with reload and got another full year out of the coating before selling the car.

Try it out, couldn't hurt.
__________________
E90 M3 - 6speed - slicktop - single hump
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2020, 07:04 PM   #15
SoCalRPM
Captain
SoCalRPM's Avatar
886
Rep
942
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

I've been through these same dilemmas myself and my conclusions reflect yours and others OP.

I have CQuartz on my car, which is probably about 2yrs old now. It's only just beginning to show signs of failure in certain spots. Very minor. I haven't ever re-upped the protection and I've only ever washed with Ph Neutral soaps.

But, I have some clear bra that needs removing, as well as some rock chips that need addressing, and I'd like to install the OE M Performance carbon spoiler and splitters at some point, but all of these things are bigger headaches with a ceramic coating.

I like to do my own detailing because it's therapeutic and saves $$$ but I'm a little weary of coatings since I'm more unfamiliar with them.

I've seen recently that a really vigorous decon and strip process (strip soap, chem decon, physical decon) followed by a cut polish should effectively (and hopefully safely) remove the coating - especially considering it may be on its last leg.

I think I'm going to venture into this process soon and as much as I absolutely love the ease of cleaning, longevity, and self-cleaning properties of the coating, I think I'll revert back to a sealant/wax layering for the time being to sort out any other cosmetic issues I need to take care of. Maybe I'll circle back to a proper coating down the line again.

Coatings are definitely a love/hate relationship for me.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2020, 06:21 AM   #16
Helmsman
Major General
Helmsman's Avatar
Sweden
4377
Rep
7,053
Posts

Drives: 2011 AW E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalRPM View Post
I've been through these same dilemmas myself and my conclusions reflect yours and others OP.

I have CQuartz on my car, which is probably about 2yrs old now. It's only just beginning to show signs of failure in certain spots. Very minor. I haven't ever re-upped the protection and I've only ever washed with Ph Neutral soaps.

But, I have some clear bra that needs removing, as well as some rock chips that need addressing, and I'd like to install the OE M Performance carbon spoiler and splitters at some point, but all of these things are bigger headaches with a ceramic coating.

I like to do my own detailing because it's therapeutic and saves $$$ but I'm a little weary of coatings since I'm more unfamiliar with them.

I've seen recently that a really vigorous decon and strip process (strip soap, chem decon, physical decon) followed by a cut polish should effectively (and hopefully safely) remove the coating - especially considering it may be on its last leg.

I think I'm going to venture into this process soon and as much as I absolutely love the ease of cleaning, longevity, and self-cleaning properties of the coating, I think I'll revert back to a sealant/wax layering for the time being to sort out any other cosmetic issues I need to take care of. Maybe I'll circle back to a proper coating down the line again.

Coatings are definitely a love/hate relationship for me.
So maybe time for you also to try a ceramic spray mate...
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2020, 06:36 PM   #17
SoCalRPM
Captain
SoCalRPM's Avatar
886
Rep
942
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalRPM View Post
I've been through these same dilemmas myself and my conclusions reflect yours and others OP.

I have CQuartz on my car, which is probably about 2yrs old now. It's only just beginning to show signs of failure in certain spots. Very minor. I haven't ever re-upped the protection and I've only ever washed with Ph Neutral soaps.

But, I have some clear bra that needs removing, as well as some rock chips that need addressing, and I'd like to install the OE M Performance carbon spoiler and splitters at some point, but all of these things are bigger headaches with a ceramic coating.

I like to do my own detailing because it's therapeutic and saves $$$ but I'm a little weary of coatings since I'm more unfamiliar with them.

I've seen recently that a really vigorous decon and strip process (strip soap, chem decon, physical decon) followed by a cut polish should effectively (and hopefully safely) remove the coating - especially considering it may be on its last leg.

I think I'm going to venture into this process soon and as much as I absolutely love the ease of cleaning, longevity, and self-cleaning properties of the coating, I think I'll revert back to a sealant/wax layering for the time being to sort out any other cosmetic issues I need to take care of. Maybe I'll circle back to a proper coating down the line again.

Coatings are definitely a love/hate relationship for me.
So maybe time for you also to try a ceramic spray mate...
I think so! I've actually already purchased the Jescar Power Lock and Colinite 845 combo but I'd like to top with Seal & Shine or the Ceramic Spray
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 02:34 PM   #18
Z K
Major General
Z K's Avatar
1886
Rep
5,504
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Treat ceramic coating as a very durable wax... it's basically just a sacrificial layer of protection. You can polish it off and re-apply any time.

That's why I refuse to pay someone to ceramic coat the car. If you know how to wax a car, you can apply a coating. The prep is the hard part, but it's just detailing - wash, clay, polish and coat. You just replace the wax/sealant last step with coating.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 04:48 PM   #19
PYE46M3
Captain
852
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

OP, if you think you have clear coat defects, then isn't your ceramic coating in that area already compromised? I would think you either have ceramic coating and the scratch is on the coating or the scratch worked its way through the coating and into the clear coat.

I was thinking about trying Sonax Ceramic coating which i think is the easiest to apply but decided not to for the same reasons. IMO its hard to beat Meguiars current line-up of hybird ceramic wax, specially the blue bottle which is a spray on rinse off type of wax. You can literally wax the entire car after every wash effortlessly and keep building up those layers.
__________________
2005 Phoenix Yellow E46 M3 6MT Coupe
2007 Imola Red Z4 M Coupe
2013 Interlagos Blue E92 M3 6MT ZCP CF roof
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST