Oil Analysis Back. It's Terrible

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by OzCoE92

Mike Benvo was selling a rebuilt motor with new bearings for $11k in the classifieds a while back. I'd take another sample in 1,000 miles or so, and if the numbers are still not good, consider getting a used motor from a forum member here. One sample wouldn't be enough for me to rip apart a perfectly good running engine especially with those low miles.

If the numbers are not good, buy a new engine instead of simply replacing the rod bearings for peace of mind?

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by cclinard1

I'd say zero chance any warranty will do that. In my experience with my extended warranty company, they don't fix anything just because it's a known issue or it might fail. They wait until it actually breaks and there is failure or codes that indicate the issue and then there is justification.

Yeah, ya gotta figure that much...

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by D_M

M_Three,

Are you not in a unique situation with 39 years of experience and buddies with a shop? Maybe you don't wrench anymore, so bartering isn't an option. At least you'll probably be able to supervise the work and ensure that your baby is handled with kid gloves.

Yeah, wrenched for 20 of those 39 years now I am a technical rep for Snap on tools. While I could do the work myself, I no longer have a place to do that work. So that's why I have to have my buddy do the work.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

A lot of missing info in the OP. How old was the oil--when was the last oil change, including filter? Was an OEM filter used? How many miles did the oil have on it when you did the oil analysis. Like the guy above, I wouldn't panic over a single reading. Although, I'd probably wait for 5k miles to pass until I took another sample. If the car sat on the MB lot for some time, you can bet that someone drove the car without any care to warm up--they probably started it up and proceeded to beat on it while cold.

Now that you have it and can drive it properly, put some miles on the car and see how things look.

A worn bearing is a worn bearing, it doesn't matter how it happened in the past. A worn bearing increases the chances of a spun rod bearing and blown engine. The only way to fix it is to replace it. It won't repair itself.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by tdott

Welcome!

How was the copper levels from your report? Is there a time period on your 36k warranty?
I doubt any warranty will cover preventative maintenance which is what changing the rod bearings would be classified as.

Copper was 4 ppm

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Ok, so? The warranty company will absolutely NOT cover that, it's irrelevant in this context. They would be buying something more like this, but through their own network of engine/parts suppliers so it would likely be even cheaper for them (~$6-8k):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E90-E92-...hZnyQV&vxp=mtr

EDIT: Post 414 in this thread will tell you how much a 3rd party warranty was prepared to cover for a complete engine replacement (parts and labor). Keep in mind this was 2 years ago, the cost of the used engine is lower now.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...119912&page=19

I don't think you can speak for all warranty companies. Generally, they will have you get an estimate from any garage you want and then they will review and probably go with that estimate.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

While I doubt they will do a preemptive change, it's worth a call to create to record and let them know you're documenting the oil analysis. Then, I'd keep a close eye on noises when it's cold and when it starts to make noise bring it to your shop. Let a shop determine your bearings are failing and see what they say. It's either replace them now or replace the shortblock when you puke a rod out of the block.

I may have my buddy call them. Might get authorization over the phone simply saying the engine needs rod bearings.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by zipper228

Consider this too: even if the bearings go while you're still under warranty AND the warranty company kindly steps up and replaces your engine with another used one (that may or may not have been treated worse than your current one), there is no way to determine that the "new" engine won't be subject to a similar failure on down the road, possibly after the warranty coverage has run out. I think the fact is that if you plan to keep the car longer term, bearings have to be addressed eventually. Doing it sooner than later might save some headaches.

Oh, I know that fully and would not want my engine ripped out. I would certainly address the engine I have in the car now before that ever happens.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by dparm

All you have is a single reading from a single sample -- the whole point of UOA is to establish a baseline and trends. I wouldn't panic yet. Keep driving the car and take another sample every 1,000 miles to see where it goes. You can do this with a turkey baster in the oil filter housing.

And no, I don't see any warranty company (or even BMW) pre-emptively replacing bearings because of a single oil analysis result. Typically you have to wait until something fails.

Great Idea.. Thank you. And I didn't think about the oil filter housing as a point for the sample.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Tell that to the warranty company who is covering the bill. I doubt they will care.

I know . And I know as well that most warranty companies really s@ck.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by Get lit

Op... one option you have is to go ahead and tear down the engine and check your bearing clearance. If it is not within spec then you will have justification to file a claim with your warranty company to replace the rod bearings. If they are within spec then the bill is on you and you can either put everything back together or go ahead and replace the rod bearings.

Thanks for that. I have already spoken to my buddy at the Euro shop. I gave him some great deals over the years with Alignment equipment and scanners. He will do the job for me at half regular labor.

Now, what is the latest go to set of bearings and bolts if i might ask??

[OzCoE92]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

If the numbers are not good, buy a new engine instead of simply replacing the rod bearings for peace of mind?

I should have clarified if it grenades, by a motor here instead of Ebay, or replace bearings in the current one.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

My warranty company would deny this claim. You would need pre-approval from them to start taking things apart to diagnose an issue. My dealer found that out the hard way...

So in other words if the repair shop called in and said the engine had a low end knock they would be told to tear it down.. At that point they would see these burned out S65 rod bearings and pay the repair. I would think that would work.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

A lot of missing info in the OP. How old was the oil--when was the last oil change, including filter? Was an OEM filter used? How many miles did the oil have on it when you did the oil analysis. Like the guy above, I wouldn't panic over a single reading. Although, I'd probably wait for 5k miles to pass until I took another sample. If the car sat on the MB lot for some time, you can bet that someone drove the car without any care to warm up--they probably started it up and proceeded to beat on it while cold.

Now that you have it and can drive it properly, put some miles on the car and see how things look.

Great advice.

Well. bad me for leaving all those details out..

It actually had 2 oil changes in the time I had the car. It did because the dealer did an oil change when i first got the car but used Mobile 1 oil at 5 w30. So after just a few miles I told them the car had the wrong oil and they then did the correct oil change with TWS

After that the oil was 3 months old and had 7100 miles on it when Blackstoned. It was stock 10 60 TWS

Yes new filter.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by OzCoE92

Mike Benvo was selling a rebuilt motor with new bearings for $11k in the classifieds a while back. I'd take another sample in 1,000 miles or so, and if the numbers are still not good, consider getting a used motor from a forum member here. One sample wouldn't be enough for me to rip apart a perfectly good running engine especially with those low miles.

Interesting to hear you say get a new motor instead of just doing rod bearings.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

I don't think you can speak for all warranty companies. Generally, they will have you get an estimate from any garage you want and then they will review and probably go with that estimate.

You have no idea what you're talking about if you think any 3rd party warranty company will pay out $25k based on the estimate of some random garage. I personally have experience with (very expensive) warranty claims and am quite familiar with the process. I have also provided a direct example of an engine replacement under a well-know/respected 3rd party warranty company. If that's not enough for you then you are welcome to your own opinion.

Originally Posted by M_Three

Great Idea.. Thank you. And I didn't think about the oil filter housing as a point for the sample.

I would get the sample from the front sump instead. You will only drain about 1/2 liter from there and I think it would be a "cleaner" sample.

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I know . And I know as well that most warranty companies really s@ck.

I've had good luck with mine actually. YMMV

Originally Posted by M_Three

Thanks for that. I have already spoken to my buddy at the Euro shop. I gave him some great deals over the years with Alignment equipment and scanners. He will do the job for me at half regular labor.

Now, what is the latest go to set of bearings and bolts if i might ask??

BE bearings and bolts.

Originally Posted by OzCoE92

I should have clarified if it grenades, by a motor here instead of Ebay, or replace bearings in the current one.

If it grenades, I would hope the warranty does what they are contractually obligated to do. OP would most likely get a used engine with similar mileage. But sure, if all else fails I would take an engine from a known vendor here over a mystery engine on ebay.

Originally Posted by M_Three

So in other words if the repair shop called in and said the engine had a low end knock they would be told to tear it down.. At that point they would see these burned out S65 rod bearings and pay the repair. I would think that would work.

That may work, however due to the cost of this repair it is likely that the warranty company would send out an adjuster to confirm that there is low end knock before approving further work. You can roll the dice though, nothing to lose if they deny you...

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M_Three

Interesting to hear you say get a new motor instead of just doing rod bearings.

Mike and the S65 are in LA .

As for your problem I would go with another Blackstone in 3K miles .

But personally I don't believe in Blackstone . I saw several perfect Blackstone reports and after a few weeks the S65s got bearing failure .

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mike and the S65 are in LA .

As for your problem I would go with another Blackstone in 3K miles .

But personally I don't believe in Blackstone . I saw several perfect Blackstone reports and after a few weeks the S65s got bearing failure .

Blackstone reports are certainly no guarantee but they are better than nothing for 08-10 cars. Like you said, there have been examples of clean reports followed by bearing failures shortly after, but we have also seen high lead reports which led to bearing replacements that looked trashed when removed. For $30, it's cheap peace of mind despite not being fool proof.

[M_Three]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

That may work, however due to the cost of this repair it is likely that the warranty company would send out an adjuster to confirm that there is low end knock before approving further work. You can roll the dice though, nothing to lose if they deny you...

I'll discuss this approach with my buddy. If they say they are sending an adjuster I'll have the shop owner tell them that I took the car and will bring the car back to schedule the work. Then pay him his half rate for the repair.

Thanks for the reply..

[M_Three]

So now regarding the BE bearing replacements. I would assume that this really isn't the be all fix and that these bearings will once again self destruct.. Is that what you guys have been seeing over time?

[BrewRifle]

Originally Posted by M_Three

So now regarding the BE bearing replacements. I would assume that this really isn't the be all fix and that these bearings will once again self destruct.. Is that what you guys have been seeing over time?

They are supposed to be the final fix and I haven't heard or seen anyone come back with a failure due to the BE bearings thus far.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by M_Three

So now regarding the BE bearing replacements. I would assume that this really isn't the be all fix and that these bearings will once again self destruct.. Is that what you guys have been seeing over time?

The idea behind BE bearings is that they address the clearance issue of OEM bearings. Theoretically, they are a permanent solution though they haven't been around long enough to prove that out.