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[ATLIEN]

How important is the look of the tire (tread, etc) in your overall tire purchase?

I'm in need of rear tires for my other BMW and I exclusively ride Michelin's (PSS, P4S, AS3+) but am tempted to look at other brands with more interesting treads. Am I crazy or are there others like me out there?

[shimmy23]

I'm too ocd to run mismatched tires. If I want to swap to a new brand/tread, I do all 4s

What other "interesting" treads are you looking at? The Michelin line up you've mentioned is top tier

[ATLIEN]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

I'm too ocd to run mismatched tires. If I want to swap to a new brand/tread, I do all 4s

What other "interesting" treads are you looking at? The Michelin line up you've mentioned is top tier

I'm running as3+ on the front but they're discontinued. I'm going with the AS4's for the rear and will add the fronts when they wear down. I had my eyes on some Toyos and Continentals but can't pull the trigger.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by ATLIEN

How important is the look of the tire (tread, etc) in your overall tire purchase?

Am I crazy or are there others like me out there?

Not crazy, but just like with the fairer sex, "looks aren't everything".. Could go BFG Comp-2 A/S or M'Brand Cross Climate if you want a better look than PSAS4 but want to keep similar levels of traction, quality, uniformity (ride) and safety.

https://www.michelinman.com/auto/tir...s-climate-plus

[jradon]

I had the original Conti DWS06 and had no problems. I'm thinking of getting the new DWS06 Plus because of the good reviews I saw online.

[Z K]

I don't know about appearance, but I'm a tire snob in terms of tire grip and overall performance.

Anyone running a Michelin street tire automatically tells me that they aren't serious about performance and doesn't drive their car at the track. They're absolute crap tires when pushed to the limit.

I do run PS4S on my commuter car though - soft, comfy and great for commuting to work.

[ATLIEN]

Originally Posted by Z K

I don't know about appearance, but I'm a tire snob in terms of tire grip and overall performance.

Anyone running a Michelin street tire automatically tells me that they aren't serious about performance and doesn't drive their car at the track. They're absolute crap tires when pushed to the limit.

I do run PS4S on my commuter car though - soft, comfy and great for commuting to work.

Lol. I'm no track rat but have run continental extreme contact at bmw experience and was impressed. What's your track tire of choice?

[DirtyM3]

I'm currently running Continental extremecontact sports. My first time running them and for the price. I'm happy with them so far. Only put maybe just over 150 miles on them.

[endur0]

Looks mean very little, performance means a ton. For track, SC3R and once suspension is done, R7; for street, current leaning is SC3. All on square setups (especially important for track so I can level the wear), 275 35 18 when I can find them. If the car were DD or I were in a different climate, these opinions would change.

[Denny347]

If you are a serious track driver, by all means, the highest performance tires you can afford. But for most M3 owners who MAY track it once or twice a year, quality AS tires will hardly make a difference. I teach recruits emergency driving in piece of crap Crown Vics and Chargers all with crappy Goodyear RSA tires. We drive on road courses and SCCA style cone courses. After hundreds of hours teaching, I have determined that MOST drivers will never develop enough skill to push these crappy cars on AS tires, let alone M3 with high-end tires.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by ATLIEN

Lol. I'm no track rat but have run continental extreme contact at bmw experience and was impressed. What's your track tire of choice?

The ECS tires are about the same as PS4S. They're still in that same category. To get to the "trackable street tire" level, they are usually 200 treadwear and under tires. My current favorites are the Yokohama A052, the Bridgestone RE71R and Falken RT660. Beyond that, the "streetable track tires" such as the Michelin Cup 2R, Toyo R888R, Nitto NT01, the Pirelli Trofeo R, Goodyear Supercar 3R and others.

I'm currently running the Goodyear Supercar 3R. They last about 2000-3000 miles a set and are very good track tires and still street legal.

As I said, one look at the tires tells me a lot about how a car is set up and driven. I'm snobby in that way.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Z K

The ECS tires are about the same as PS4S. They're still in that same category. To get to the "trackable street tire" level, they are usually 200 treadwear and under tires. My current favorites are the Yokohama A052, the Bridgestone RE71R and Falken RT660. Beyond that, the "streetable track tires" such as the Michelin Cup 2R, Toyo R888R, Nitto NT01, the Pirelli Trofeo R, Goodyear Supercar 3R and others.

I'm currently running the Goodyear Supercar 3R. They last about 2000-3000 miles a set and are very good track tires and still street legal.

As I said, one look at the tires tells me a lot about how a car is set up and driven. I'm snobby in that way.

Might've been Extreme Contact Force not Sport. Which is very much in the same category as the tires you've listed short the Trofeo and SC3R.

I wouldn't use tires as a gauge to assess ability or track experience. Like a capable car, tires are just money…

[ATLIEN]

Originally Posted by Z K

The ECS tires are about the same as PS4S. They're still in that same category. To get to the "trackable street tire" level, they are usually 200 treadwear and under tires. My current favorites are the Yokohama A052, the Bridgestone RE71R and Falken RT660. Beyond that, the "streetable track tires" such as the Michelin Cup 2R, Toyo R888R, Nitto NT01, the Pirelli Trofeo R, Goodyear Supercar 3R and others.

I'm currently running the Goodyear Supercar 3R. They last about 2000-3000 miles a set and are very good track tires and still street legal.

As I said, one look at the tires tells me a lot about how a car is set up and driven. I'm snobby in that way.

Good deal. I might play around with that category of tire for a little fun. I've always liked Yokohamas going back to the old AVS Intermediates of the 90s.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Z K

I don't know about appearance, but I'm a tire snob in terms of tire grip and overall performance.

Anyone running a Michelin street tire automatically tells me that they aren't serious about performance and doesn't drive their car at the track. They're absolute crap tires when pushed to the limit.

I do run PS4S on my commuter car though - soft, comfy and great for commuting to work.

PS4S are great track tires, for a stock car, especially for a person who wants to drive to and from the track.

hypothetically speaking doing a 2minute lap time on a ps4s and doing a 2minute laptop on a sc3r, a way grippier tire.. doesn't make the ps4s a bad tire..

Originally Posted by ATLIEN

How important is the look of the tire (tread, etc) in your overall tire purchase?

I'm in need of rear tires for my other BMW and I exclusively ride Michelin's (PSS, P4S, AS3+) but am tempted to look at other brands with more interesting treads. Am I crazy or are there others like me out there?

this sort of matters when it comes to water, on how its thrown away from under the car - but i do sometimes pick my tires based on look. lol cause i mean R888s look kinda cool man.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

PS4S are great track tires, for a stock car, especially for a person who wants to drive to and from the track.

hypothetically speaking doing a 2minute lap time on a ps4s and doing a 2minute laptop on a sc3r, a way grippier tire.. doesn't make the ps4s a bad tire..

The problem with a PS4S and other cars in that 300 treadwear "performance tire" category is that they overheat on track. You may get 1 or 2 fast laps then they get all greasy and you start drifting, understeering and get terrible lap times. There's no consistency and predictability. An SC3R will get you the same lap time from 1st to last lap over the entire 20-30 minute session. PS4S, you'll go for a glory run then pull out early when it melts.

Might've been Extreme Contact Force not Sport. Which is very much in the same category as the tires you've listed short the Trofeo and SC3R.

Those just came out a few months ago. Unless you were doing the driving experience within the last 2-3 months, they were not available. They also do not make it for BMW F series M2/3/4 sizes such as 255/40 and 275/40 sizes.

And no, those are not in the same category as a Trofeo or SC3R. Both of those are R compound competition tires. The Force is a 200 TW tire that is track capable but mostly a street tire.

I wouldn't use tires as a gauge to assess ability or track experience. Like a capable car, tires are just money…

No, tires are not a gauge of a driver's ability, but it is an assessment of what the car can do. It's also an assessment of what the person does with their car - i.e. show vs go.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by Z K

The problem with a PS4S and other cars in that 300 treadwear "performance tire" category is that they overheat on track. You may get 1 or 2 fast laps then they get all greasy and you start drifting, understeering and get terrible lap times. There's no consistency and predictability. An SC3R will get you the same lap time from 1st to last lap over the entire 20-30 minute session. PS4S, you'll go for a glory run then pull out early when it melts.



Those just came out a few months ago. Unless you were doing the driving experience within the last 2-3 months, they were not available. They also do not make it for BMW F series M2/3/4 sizes such as 255/40 and 275/40 sizes.

And no, those are not in the same category as a Trofeo or SC3R. Both of those are R compound competition tires. The Force is a 200 TW tire that is track capable but mostly a street tire.



No, tires are not a gauge of a driver's ability, but it is an assessment of what the car can do. It's also an assessment of what the person does with their car - i.e. show vs go.

Tires have different features that have different focus. You are looking specifically at heat tolerance. The PS4S is a great tire that can get you some decent laps without having to have dedicated tires. You are right they don't have very great heat tolerance, but reality is there are a lot of tires that are in that same category too. RE71R anyone? They got some nice hero laps. Hankook RS4 has great heat tolerance and wears like iron but its definitely off the pace of fast laps on other tires.

Let Your Usage Be Your Guide
We’ve assembled this chart to be a quick reference to choose the proper tire for the proper venue.

Autocross: Choose A or AA for Warm-up and B or better for Pace.
Time trials: Choose by Pace and Wear.
Lapping days: Choose by Heat Tolerance and Wear.
Street and Track: Choose by Heat Tolerance, Wear and Wet.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Z K

The problem with a PS4S and other cars in that 300 treadwear "performance tire" category is that they overheat on track. You may get 1 or 2 fast laps then they get all greasy and you start drifting, understeering and get terrible lap times. There's no consistency and predictability. An SC3R will get you the same lap time from 1st to last lap over the entire 20-30 minute session. PS4S, you'll go for a glory run then pull out early when it melts.

Those just came out a few months ago. Unless you were doing the driving experience within the last 2-3 months, they were not available. They also do not make it for BMW F series M2/3/4 sizes such as 255/40 and 275/40 sizes.

And no, those are not in the same category as a Trofeo or SC3R. Both of those are R compound competition tires. The Force is a 200 TW tire that is track capable but mostly a street tire.

No, tires are not a gauge of a driver's ability, but it is an assessment of what the car can do. It's also an assessment of what the person does with their car - i.e. show vs go.

That's fair regarding sizing and availability, but I'd recon BMW could have access to tires and can run other wheel sizes that accommodate their desired tires. So I wouldn't eliminate the possibility.

I believe we're in agreement as per the quote you highlighted, the Force isn't the same as the Trof or SC3R. But the Force is specifically designed to slot into the endurance requirements of WRL competition and is not a street tire masquerading as a comp tire.

I see a lot of comp tires and even non DOT slicks on cars that aren't driving anywhere near the limit of the tire. Getting passed by street cars on street tires. I no longer make assumptions based on equipment capability. It's easily bought.

But we're in agreement, I too prefer high quality comp tires. I want repeatability and consistent dynamics.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Z K

The problem with a PS4S and other cars in that 300 treadwear "performance tire" category is that they overheat on track. You may get 1 or 2 fast laps then they get all greasy and you start drifting, understeering and get terrible lap times. There's no consistency and predictability. An SC3R will get you the same lap time from 1st to last lap over the entire 20-30 minute session. PS4S, you'll go for a glory run then pull out early when it melts.



Those just came out a few months ago. Unless you were doing the driving experience within the last 2-3 months, they were not available. They also do not make it for BMW F series M2/3/4 sizes such as 255/40 and 275/40 sizes.

And no, those are not in the same category as a Trofeo or SC3R. Both of those are R compound competition tires. The Force is a 200 TW tire that is track capable but mostly a street tire.



No, tires are not a gauge of a driver's ability, but it is an assessment of what the car can do. It's also an assessment of what the person does with their car - i.e. show vs go.

You're just comparing one thing to another that DOESNT matter to a person who is going out to do HPDE. like the fact you're insulting people for tracking on PS4S is kind of upsetting. sorry that they want to go enjoy their car

it's honestly better to track on sub par 300tw tires than it is for a beginner to drive on a low TW tire that will over time create false confidence and bad habits. the PS4S is very forgiving in this aspect.

but i get your point, consistency is nice for someone like us who take it srs. but for the average joe. not so much.

[leftfootbr8king]

When you're passing judgement on my car for sitting on oem wheels with falken 510's at the coffee shop, don't consider the stack of slick tires sitting in the garage, or the full spl catalog, brakes and remote res dampers installed behind those street tires.

lol at judging a car based on the tires it's wearing on the street. Or judging someone else's car, in general.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

When you're passing judgement on my car for sitting on oem wheels with falken 510's at the coffee shop, don't consider the stack of slick tires sitting in the garage, or the full spl catalog, brakes and remote res dampers installed behind those street tires.

lol at judging a car based on the tires it's wearing on the street. Or judging someone else's car, in general.

The OP is the original tire snob. He says he exclusively drives Michelin and is a tire snob.

SO I offered him a different definition of tire snob - the snob who looks at tires not based on appearance and brand but on actual performance.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

You're just comparing one thing to another that DOESNT matter to a person who is going out to do HPDE. like the fact you're insulting people for tracking on PS4S is kind of upsetting. sorry that they want to go enjoy their car

it's honestly better to track on sub par 300tw tires than it is for a beginner to drive on a low TW tire that will over time create false confidence and bad habits. the PS4S is very forgiving in this aspect.

but i get your point, consistency is nice for someone like us who take it srs. but for the average joe. not so much.

I'm not "shitting" on the PS4S - I run these same tires on my commuter car. It's great for commuting to work, extremely comfortable and quiet. It works well in rain and dry conditions. Heck, it's great for the occasional mountain run as well.

But if you go to the track and want a consistent tire that can hold up to track use without melting and chunking apart - this is not the tire you want. Even as a "beginner" tire, the PS4S will give you great confidence and grip for 1-2 laps then go all greasy and no grip for the rest of your laps. That is not good for a beginner to learn on. Then at the end of the day, your tire sidewall is falling apart and you need new tires - again not (pocketbook) friendly for a beginner. For less money, you can run a RT660 - it'll last longer, have more grip and you'll have a much better time at the track.

[derbo]

idk if you guys remember the Porsche PanaAmericana. Check out the Porsche Crest on the Tire tread! Now thats a snob tire, I want one with BMW roundels. lmao.