Fall Line DCT Pan?

ThunderMoose · 09-30-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

Glad to hear you got a tour of Fall-Line. I used to get my Corvette serviced there before I moved. Great guys and they definitely know what they're doing.

My E46M3 was initially built by fall-line and still has their half cage.

dparm · 09-30-2020, 02:01 PM

The next step needs to be for someone to buy both and do a side-by-side comparison video. That type of content is what makes this forum great. Everyone chip in $10 to cover shipping costs and whatever is lost on the resale of the pan the person doesn't use. Maybe we get a neutral party who doesn't sell either one.

Better yet, interview SLON and Fall-Line on their pans and get it straight from the source. Why they designed it like they did, what their testing showed them, and so on. Everyone is so focused on the gasket thing. Well, maybe that's something that needs to be directly asked. "You did X for your gasket, but the competitor part has Z...why?"

I'm sure we can vote on a great clickbaity title for the video, too:

"DCT pans: can a giant race shop dethrone the top-dog?"
"Fall-Line versus SLON...are all DCT pans created equal?"
"SLON DCT pan gets a compelling competitor!"
"Did Fall-Line just dab on SLON with their new DCT pan?"
"This one part will make your DCT car bulletproof on track!"
"Fall-Line's latest M3 part isn't worth your money!"
etc.

SYT_Shadow · 09-30-2020, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

The next step needs to be for someone to buy both and do a side-by-side comparison video. That type of content is what makes this forum great. Everyone chip in $10 to cover shipping costs and whatever is lost on the resale of the pan the person doesn't use. Maybe we get a neutral party who doesn't sell either one.

Better yet, interview SLON and Fall-Line on their pans and get it straight from the source. Why they designed it like they did, what their testing showed them, and so on. Everyone is so focused on the gasket thing. Well, maybe that's something that needs to be directly asked. "You did X for your gasket, but the competitor part has Z...why?"

I'm sure we can vote on a great clickbaity title for the video, too:

"DCT pans: can a giant race shop dethrone the top-dog?"
"Fall-Line versus SLON...are all DCT pans created equal?"
"SLON DCT pan gets a compelling competitor!"
"Did Fall-Line just dab on SLON with their new DCT pan?"
"This one part will make your DCT car bulletproof on track!"
"Fall-Line's latest M3 part isn't worth your money!"
etc.

LOL

I'm happy to chip in $100 for dogbone to test it. He already has lots of data from the current setup.

dparm · 09-30-2020, 04:49 PM

Okay, so the pot is now at $100. Who else? :-)

dogbone · 09-30-2020, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

LOL

I'm happy to chip in $100 for dogbone to test it. He already has lots of data from the current setup.

haha keep your $100! I ain't no test mule.

tsk94 · 09-30-2020, 06:10 PM

All this debate about this pan or that pan.

Should've just gotten the REAL drivers car variant (6MT) and you wouldn't need to worry about no stinking pan.

OG Shark · 09-30-2020, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk94

All this debate about this pan or that pan.

Should've just gotten the REAL drivers car variant (6MT) and you wouldn't need to worry about no stinking pan.

Boooooooooooooo hissssssssssss

DCTs rule

tsk94 · 09-30-2020, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Boooooooooooooo hissssssssssss

DCTs rule

Perhaps, secretly, I wish my car was DCT as well.. So I try to cope by dissing you flappy paddle users

sterile stork · 10-01-2020, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk94

All this debate about this pan or that pan.

Should've just gotten the REAL drivers car variant (6MT) and you wouldn't need to worry about no stinking pan.

Boo! Boo this man!!

wyatth · 10-01-2020, 07:51 PM

So FL recommends replacing the pan bolts but does not include any, pretty lame. At $70 for new bolts, what do guys recommend? Are they really one-time use?

dparm · 10-01-2020, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyatth

So FL recommends replacing the pan bolts but does not include any, pretty lame. At $70 for new bolts, what do guys recommend? Are they really one-time use?

Sounds like they are torque-to-yield fasteners. I would stick with the OEM bolts unless you can find out exactly what they are and order from McMaster-Carr or Fastenal.

wyatth · 10-01-2020, 08:36 PM

I searched and nobody found identical alternatives, as far as I could tell. So it's either reusing original (sounds like a bad idea if torque to yield) or add $70 to the job. Not like I want to cheap out at $70 at this point, but it just adds up every step of the way. ~$1400 in parts for pan, bolts, filters, fluids, plug, etc. But I think you answered my Q, so thanks.

* So SSP is willing to sell their bolts separately for only $14 + shipping. I think Slon includes standard SS bolts with his pan, right? Is there any need to stick with torque-to-yield here versus SS replacements? What have you guys done with the Slon pan?

https://www.sspperformance.com/bmw-d...t-package.html

dparm · 10-01-2020, 09:07 PM

The advantage a TTY fastener provides is that you can use a smaller fastener and achieve the same clamping. It's also important when you need to maintain clamping force throughout a wide temperature range, such as what a transmission might see. Head bolts are TTY because you need them to clamp correctly if the block is ice-cold or very toasty out on track.

My opinion is that BMW chose to use TTY very intentionally here and I would not deviate.

wyatth · 10-01-2020, 09:27 PM

That makes sense and for $50 or whatever probably not worth the risk. But it's funny they put such thought and expense into the bolts, but then went with a shitty warp-prone plastic pan and weak rubber gasket to match.

dogbone · 10-01-2020, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyatth

I think Slon includes standard SS bolts with his pan, right? Is there any need to stick with torque-to-yield here versus SS replacements? What have you guys done with the Slon pan?

Yes, the Slon pan ships with bolts. Slon’s instructions were to torque to 9Nm/6.6 ft lbs.

kyrix1st · 10-01-2020, 10:36 PM

I have been planning to go aluminum as a preventative measure, but do I need to get it done at the shop as DCT fluid will need to be changed as well? As far as I know, you nee to keep the fluid at a certain temperature and change the fluid using a special machine.

wyatth · 10-01-2020, 11:05 PM

Not something a Club 6MT member needs to worry about.

Kidding. Yes, you need to do the fluid fill with a pan replacement. You don't need a special tool, but there is a particular procedure (there's a DIY on the forum, involves keeping temps below a certain level and holding revs while you fill).

Ximian · 10-02-2020, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I have been planning to go aluminum as a preventative measure, but do I need to get it done at the shop as DCT fluid will need to be changed as well? As far as I know, you nee to keep the fluid at a certain temperature and change the fluid using a special machine.

I replaced the pan while the car was on jackstands and the exhaust was the biggest worry. The procedure is much easier as long as you have a lift.

The fluid fill procedure is the trickiest part because the exhaust is right there and you can burn your hand while you're inserting and tightening the fill plug. It's a tight space. On jackstands, your head can make contact if you're not very careful.

dparm · 10-02-2020, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyatth

That makes sense and for $50 or whatever probably not worth the risk. But it's funny they put such thought and expense into the bolts, but then went with a shitty warp-prone plastic pan and weak rubber gasket to match.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using plastic, of which there are many different types.

wyatth · 10-02-2020, 09:00 AM

^ Sure, but there is something inherently wrong with the OE pan/gasket as they all tend to leak!

sterile stork · 10-02-2020, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

There's nothing inherently wrong with using plastic, of which there are many different types.

Agreed--heat-cycling thermoset plastics are a favorite go-to for sound engineering and not at all driven by cost considerations

wyatth · 10-02-2020, 07:03 PM

FWIW, from SSP, "BMW uses (overpriced) aluminum stretch bolts in the pan originally. The theory behind the aluminum bolts is that the transmission is made out of aluminum. The rate of cool down is the same. In theory that would work if the pan was made from aluminum. We use the high grade stainless bolts. Stainless doesn't corrode and is very strong."

Not sure I follow. Sounds like aluminum bolts would make sense with aluminum pan, but then most aluminum pans come with SS bolts. Probably overthinking this for a difference of $50, but find it interesting as well.

09-30-2020, 02:01 PM	#46
dparm Stop the hate, get a V8 3850 Rep 8,625 Posts Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Frisco, TX iTrader: (1)	The next step needs to be for someone to buy both and do a side-by-side comparison video. That type of content is what makes this forum great. Everyone chip in $10 to cover shipping costs and whatever is lost on the resale of the pan the person doesn't use. Maybe we get a neutral party who doesn't sell either one. Better yet, interview SLON and Fall-Line on their pans and get it straight from the source. Why they designed it like they did, what their testing showed them, and so on. Everyone is so focused on the gasket thing. Well, maybe that's something that needs to be directly asked. "You did X for your gasket, but the competitor part has Z...why?" I'm sure we can vote on a great clickbaity title for the video, too: "DCT pans: can a giant race shop dethrone the top-dog?" "Fall-Line versus SLON...are all DCT pans created equal?" "SLON DCT pan gets a compelling competitor!" "Did Fall-Line just dab on SLON with their new DCT pan?" "This one part will make your DCT car bulletproof on track!" "Fall-Line's latest M3 part isn't worth your money!" etc. __________________ Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
	Appreciate 3 kyippee1072.00 SYT_Shadow11475.50 wyatth3548.50 Quote

09-30-2020, 04:49 PM	#48
dparm Stop the hate, get a V8 3850 Rep 8,625 Posts Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Frisco, TX iTrader: (1)	Okay, so the pot is now at $100. Who else? :-) __________________ Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
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09-30-2020, 06:10 PM	#50
tsk94 Lieutenant Colonel 1522 Rep 1,591 Posts Drives: E92 M3, E82 128i, F82 M4, E36 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Calgary iTrader: (2)	All this debate about this pan or that pan. Should've just gotten the REAL drivers car variant (6MT) and you wouldn't need to worry about no stinking pan.
	Appreciate 5 OG Shark4692.50 SYT_Shadow11475.50 //steve\\1074.00 ///Mobbin1478.00 jamabdi185.50 Quote

10-01-2020, 07:51 PM	#54
wyatth Colonel 3549 Rep 2,823 Posts Drives: E90 ZCP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	So FL recommends replacing the pan bolts but does not include any, pretty lame. At $70 for new bolts, what do guys recommend? Are they really one-time use?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-01-2020, 08:36 PM	#56
wyatth Colonel 3549 Rep 2,823 Posts Drives: E90 ZCP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	I searched and nobody found identical alternatives, as far as I could tell. So it's either reusing original (sounds like a bad idea if torque to yield) or add $70 to the job. Not like I want to cheap out at $70 at this point, but it just adds up every step of the way. ~$1400 in parts for pan, bolts, filters, fluids, plug, etc. But I think you answered my Q, so thanks. * So SSP is willing to sell their bolts separately for only $14 + shipping. I think Slon includes standard SS bolts with his pan, right? Is there any need to stick with torque-to-yield here versus SS replacements? What have you guys done with the Slon pan? https://www.sspperformance.com/bmw-d...t-package.html Last edited by wyatth; 10-01-2020 at 08:58 PM..
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10-01-2020, 09:07 PM	#57
dparm Stop the hate, get a V8 3850 Rep 8,625 Posts Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Frisco, TX iTrader: (1)	The advantage a TTY fastener provides is that you can use a smaller fastener and achieve the same clamping. It's also important when you need to maintain clamping force throughout a wide temperature range, such as what a transmission might see. Head bolts are TTY because you need them to clamp correctly if the block is ice-cold or very toasty out on track. My opinion is that BMW chose to use TTY very intentionally here and I would not deviate. __________________ Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-01-2020, 09:27 PM	#58
wyatth Colonel 3549 Rep 2,823 Posts Drives: E90 ZCP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	That makes sense and for $50 or whatever probably not worth the risk. But it's funny they put such thought and expense into the bolts, but then went with a shitty warp-prone plastic pan and weak rubber gasket to match.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-01-2020, 10:36 PM	#60
kyrix1st Colonel 2359 Rep 2,360 Posts Drives: G87 M2; E92M3 MT&DCT; M3 euro Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: nyc iTrader: (0) Garage List 2004 BMW Z4 [0.00]	I have been planning to go aluminum as a preventative measure, but do I need to get it done at the shop as DCT fluid will need to be changed as well? As far as I know, you nee to keep the fluid at a certain temperature and change the fluid using a special machine. __________________ Pass me if you can.
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10-01-2020, 11:05 PM	#61
wyatth Colonel 3549 Rep 2,823 Posts Drives: E90 ZCP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Not something a Club 6MT member needs to worry about. Kidding. Yes, you need to do the fluid fill with a pan replacement. You don't need a special tool, but there is a particular procedure (there's a DIY on the forum, involves keeping temps below a certain level and holding revs while you fill).
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10-02-2020, 09:00 AM	#64
wyatth Colonel 3549 Rep 2,823 Posts Drives: E90 ZCP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	^ Sure, but there is something inherently wrong with the OE pan/gasket as they all tend to leak!
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10-02-2020, 07:03 PM	#66
wyatth Colonel 3549 Rep 2,823 Posts Drives: E90 ZCP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	FWIW, from SSP, "BMW uses (overpriced) aluminum stretch bolts in the pan originally. The theory behind the aluminum bolts is that the transmission is made out of aluminum. The rate of cool down is the same. In theory that would work if the pan was made from aluminum. We use the high grade stainless bolts. Stainless doesn't corrode and is very strong." Not sure I follow. Sounds like aluminum bolts would make sense with aluminum pan, but then most aluminum pans come with SS bolts. Probably overthinking this for a difference of $50, but find it interesting as well.
	Appreciate 0 Quote