E85/Ethanol Thread

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by MFL

I highly recommend that you make sure that you put a maximum of gallons of Ethanol in your car. If your state mandates ethanol then you may need to factor that into how much E85 (85% Ethanol) into your car.

A maximum of how much???

[Mit_Boost]

There are a 2 immediate issues with an E85 tune off the stock DME:

1. Lack of Ethanol Sensor -- You're basically adding fuel and hoping the E85 you tuned for and use is consistenly the same ethanol concentration. So unless you're using Race Spec E85, you can have anything between 70% to 85% E85.
2. Lack of Fuel -- As most people know, E85 requires an additional ~35% to run the same tune. Naturally you're using E85 as a performance fuel, which means more fuel. Chances are the OEM Injectors & Fuel Pumps will be maxed out before you run a solid "Ethanol" tune.

If you're going to use E85 to "clean up logs", add some Octane, eliminate any Timing Drops/Corrections, Run More Consistenly, etc; it seems E20-E30 blends are okay (DATA LOG your Fuel Data to confirm you don't have "tired" pumps). If you're using true E85, 3 gallons of E85 with 12 gallons of 93 octane gets you E25 (citing the "octane" of E85 is ridiculous because it's near impossible to knock with ethanol & more likely you'll see a plateau in power gains from adding timing).


For anyone who wants to experiment, like I said you should probably log fuel data to confirm you're not maxing out your Fuel Trims + Pump; then buy an Ethanol Testing Kit and bookmark this link (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html) on your smartphone to use the "Octane from Blending 2 Fuels" calculator. It'll allow you to take the Ethanol Concentration of 2 Fuels (Most Pump is E10; then use the concentration from the E85 you've tested), adjust the mixture, and help find your "Target" Pump Fuel:E85 Blend.



**Side Note -- Always Add E85 First since that's usually less fuel and makes sure you hit the minimum required amount with your octane "booster"

[MFL]

Originally Posted by Shredicus

A maximum of how much???

My Bad! 4 Gallons of E85 into a full tank.

[MFL]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

There are a 2 immediate issues with an E85 tune off the stock DME:

1. Lack of Ethanol Sensor -- You're basically adding fuel and hoping the E85 you tuned for and use is consistenly the same ethanol concentration. So unless you're using Race Spec E85, you can have anything between 70% to 85% E85.
2. Lack of Fuel -- As most people know, E85 requires an additional ~35% to run the same tune. Naturally you're using E85 as a performance fuel, which means more fuel. Chances are the OEM Injectors & Fuel Pumps will be maxed out before you run a solid "Ethanol" tune.

If you're going to use E85 to "clean up logs", add some Octane, eliminate any Timing Drops/Corrections, Run More Consistenly, etc; it seems E20-E30 blends are okay (DATA LOG your Fuel Data to confirm you don't have "tired" pumps). If you're using true E85, 3 gallons of E85 with 12 gallons of 93 octane gets you E25 (citing the "octane" of E85 is ridiculous because it's near impossible to knock with ethanol & more likely you'll see a plateau in power gains from adding timing).


For anyone who wants to experiment, like I said you should probably log fuel data to confirm you're not maxing out your Fuel Trims + Pump; then buy an Ethanol Testing Kit and bookmark this link (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html) on your smartphone to use the "Octane from Blending 2 Fuels" calculator. It'll allow you to take the Ethanol Concentration of 2 Fuels (Most Pump is E10; then use the concentration from the E85 you've tested), adjust the mixture, and help find your "Target" Pump Fuel:E85 Blend.



**Side Note -- Always Add E85 First since that's usually less fuel and makes sure you hit the minimum required amount with your octane "booster"

Good call, I've noticed that at least at my E85 stations, they basically say it will be above 70% Ethanol.

[Verify]

I tried running a few gallons of E85 with 93. About E30 and AFRs went up in the 13's. I wouldnt try E if you cant monitor it

[MFL]

Originally Posted by Serpico

I tried running a few gallons of E85 with 93. About E30 and AFRs went up in the 13's. I wouldnt try E if you cant monitor it

Maybe you put too much in and maxed out your fuel system? My AFR's are perfect.

[TommyLights]

Do any of the supercharged tunes offer datalogging? I have BPM, but haven't tried yet. I would be interested in running Ethanol on my supercharger.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Running e85 on a NA car is a waste of time.

This really isn't true at all. Especially for cars with sensitivity to IATs.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by Tomz_M3

Do any of the supercharged tunes offer datalogging? I have BPM, but haven't tried yet. I would be interested in running Ethanol on my supercharger.

None that I know of offer it 'out of the box'. But you can do it yourself with various tools. VF uses an INPA cable + software to datalog. I've seen others use BMWLogger with success as well (even though it doesn't seem to read boost properly)

[Verify]

Originally Posted by MFL

Maybe you put too much in and maxed out your fuel system? My AFR's are perfect.

I doubt it. What are you using to log? Im using the bmwlogger

[MFL]

I posted my dyno runs while on e85

[spool twice]

so far so good! an E25-E30 seems to be a happy mix for me; results will vary though and is dependent on the condition of your LPFP/ HPFP.

[Verify]

Originally Posted by spool twice

so far so good! an E25-E30 seems to be a happy mix for me; results will vary though and is dependent on the condition of your LPFP/ HPFP.

what are you using to log, how do they look?

[Patrón]

bump. anymore dynos or reports from others that have tried an e85 mixture? great thread and info. i'm going to dyno in sept and do a 93 vs 93/e85 mixture.

[MFL]

Confirmed Tonight: Don't go higher than 30%

I had E30 in my tank, 2 gallons left. Then I dropped 4.5 Gallons of E85 and filled the rest up with E10. Which was just too much, my car went into limp mode after testing it. So I had to limp it around for like 30 miles and put two more gallons of E10 in it and it seems to run fine now.

Will monitor tomorrow while i am picking on Mustangs and Hondas.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by MFL

Confirmed Tonight: Don't go higher than 30%

I had E30 in my tank, 2 gallons left. Then I dropped 4.5 Gallons of E85 and filled the rest up with E10. Which was just too much, my car went into limp mode after testing it. So I had to limp it around for like 30 miles and put two more gallons of E10 in it and it seems to run fine now.

Will monitor tomorrow while i am picking on Mustangs and Hondas.

30% of total gas ie E 30% pump 70%?

[TommyLights]

I'm going to go with 2 gallons today. I have a VF540, curious. I can't believe none of the supercharger tuners have an e85 file yet.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Patrn

30% of total gas ie E 30% pump 70%?

No, this would be more than E30. 16.6 gallon tank w/ 6.5 gallons of E85, plus the other 10 with 91 octane w/10% ethanol.

MFL let me know the fault codes thrown from doing this.

[jagman]

I hope Mike can come up with a safe E30 tune for catless NA M3s. If anyone can it's Mike .

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by jagman

I hope Mike can come up with a safe E30 tune for catless NA M3s. If anyone can it's Mike .

+1 This is a job for the Benvonator!

[ciges]

4 gallons of E85 mixed with 12 gallons of 91 E10 runs awesome in 106 F heat in Nevada.

[MFL]

PREACH IT!