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[BigLuckyApple]

Are there any ride quality benefits to a staggered setup versus a square one?

I really only want to buy one set of wheels and I want to do some occasional track stuff. I have heard that square is the way to go for track, but I'm curious if that will compromise daily drivability.

Basically I'm trying to choose between 18x10s or 18x9.5, 18x10.5 for ordering APEX EC7s.

Thanks!

[SYT_Shadow]

Don't do 10.5's for a DD. For sure.

With that out of the way, I would not run square on the street. I don't like the steering feel with so much tire/wheel up front. It tramlines more and the steering is very heavy. And even with only 10 up front you'll mess with your plastic fender liners

Even if you're going to do tracking I would still stick to staggered setup unless it's a dedicated track wheel setup

A 9 front and 10 rear setup is still very good for the track. A 9.5/10.5 is even better

Last year at Mid Ohio we swapped out our 10.5 square setup with burnt out NT01s for a ZCP (9-10) setup with RE71s and immediately picked up a couple seconds.
Believe me, square setups are overvalued. This is coming from someone with 6 sets of wheels

You couldn't pay me to use square on a daily driver

[kyippee]

I've been running staggered 9.5F +22 & 10.5R +25 with 265/35/18 and 285/35/18 respectively. Dual street/track duty, and it's been good so far. No rubbing, good traction, only issue is my main tire choices are PSS and Hankook RS4. Been thinking about switching to 285/30/18 R in the future to be able to run other tire choices.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

I've been running staggered 9.5F +22 & 10.5R +25 with 265/35/18 and 285/35/18 respectively. Dual street/track duty, and it's been good so far. No rubbing, good traction, only issue is my main tire choices are PSS and Hankook RS4. Been thinking about switching to 285/30/18 R in the future to be able to run other tire choices.

I'd drop to the 30 profile out back as well

[ohhgourami]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Don't do 10.5's for a DD. For sure.

Can you elaborate on why?

I'm planning on 275/35/18 fronts and 295/35/18 rears with MPSS. This is on a weekend street car that I take to the canyons occasionally.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by ohhgourami

Can you elaborate on why?

I'm planning on 275/35/18 fronts and 295/35/18 rears with MPSS. This is on a weekend street car that I take to the canyons occasionally.

10.5 up front is extremely aggressive.

I say this because I have two sets of square 10.5 wheels for the track. They require camber to fit plus they rub the inner liners as well. Besides, that much tire/wheel up front will tramline like there's no tomorrow and be a major PITA parking

10 in the front does fit relatively well but still rubs a bit

[ohhgourami]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

10.5 up front is extremely aggressive.

I say this because I have two sets of square 10.5 wheels for the track. They require camber to fit plus they rub the inner liners as well. Besides, that much tire/wheel up front will tramline like there's no tomorrow and be a major PITA parking

10 in the front does fit relatively well but still rubs a bit

This will be 10 up front, 10.5 rear.

I was reading on the EC-7 fitment thread or one of those threads, there is no rub with stock ZCP suspension. I'm not sure what to believe now.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by ohhgourami

This will be 10 up front, 10.5 rear.

I was reading on the EC-7 fitment thread or one of those threads, there is no rub with stock ZCP suspension. I'm not sure what to believe now.

Ah.

10 up front fits fine. I used to have zcp suspension as well
10.5 rear fits perfectly

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by ohhgourami

This will be 10 up front, 10.5 rear.

I was reading on the EC-7 fitment thread or one of those threads, there is no rub with stock ZCP suspension. I'm not sure what to believe now.

18x10 ET25 should have no issues with rubbing up front on an E9x M3 with only ZCP suspension. We would recommend the 275/35-18 tires for this application to ensure proper fitment.

You can pair a 285/35-18 with the 18x10.5 wheel.

- Max

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

10.5 up front is extremely aggressive.

I say this because I have two sets of square 10.5 wheels for the track. They require camber to fit plus they rub the inner liners as well. Besides, that much tire/wheel up front will tramline like there's no tomorrow and be a major PITA parking

10 in the front does fit relatively well but still rubs a bit

But what is your offset? Just saying 10.5 doesn't fit isn't much to go off of.

[Dave07997S]

Im running a 19X10 ET25 up front with no issues. To be honest this is how IMHO the E92 should have came. I am running a 11" out back also with a ET25 and with a 295 tire out there and LOVE the way the car feels. This is on a ZCP car with no other suspension mods.

Dave

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by b4hand

But what is your offset? Just saying 10.5 doesn't fit isn't much to go off of.

The offset everyone uses

Et25 for 10
Et27 for 10.5

Most people here use apex wheels which use those offsets

[ohhgourami]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexRaceParts

18x10 ET25 should have no issues with rubbing up front on an E9x M3 with only ZCP suspension. We would recommend the 275/35-18 tires for this application to ensure proper fitment.

You can pair a 285/35-18 with the 18x10.5 wheel.

- Max

I'm planning 295/35-18 for rears which should work okay right?

Does these sizes fit well for Ohlins R&T also? That's the upgrade plan when the ZCP suspension needs replacing.

[pbonsalb]

I use 295/30/18 rears on Apex ARC8 18x10.5 ET27. Slightly lowered on H&R Sport springs. With a full tank and carrying a bunch of stuff, I have rubbed a couple of times on compression. Never rubbed with 285/35/18. I have 18x9.5 fronts with 275/35/18. Certainly square is easier since you can rotate tires but I simply added about an inch to the stock wheels and tires.

[roastbeef]

I'm running 18x10.5 arc8's squared and I love it. Depends on what feel you're after I suppose.

[ApexWheels]

I will continue to build out this post with more extensive notes on each fitment, but here is a quick reference guide to proven E9X M3 fitments with their respective tire sizes.

Recommended Staggered Fitments

F: 18x9" ET30/31 - 240/40-18 or 255/35-18
R: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18

^ This staggered fitment is 1/2" wider than the OEM 219/220 M wheels, mirroring the M3 ZCP/GTS wheel widths and offsets. This is a direct bolt on solution with no modifications required.

F: 18x9.5" ET22 - 265/35-18
R: 18x10.5 ET27/22 - 285/35-18

^ This is our most popular staggered fitment, used amongst performance street and weekend track warriors alike. This configuration is 1" wider in comparison to the standard 219/220 M wheels, and grip is substantially increased without going overboard on tire widths. This is a bolt on solution with no modifications required, and perfect for E9X M3's that have remained naturally aspirated.

F: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18
R: 18x11" ET25 - 295/35-18

^ This is another popular staggered fitment that is just a touch more aggressive than the fitment above. These wheel widths are about as wide as the front and rear fenders will take without extensive modifications. For enthusiasts looking for a little more tire, this is typically a bolt on fitment with no modifications required. For staggered fitments, we typically do not recommend exceeding a 295 tire in the rear unless the car has a substantial bump in power (supercharged / stroker) as anything wider will likely be counter productive.

The front tires may lightly scrub the inner fender liners at full lock or at particular steering angles, and most of the time things will "self clear" over time (a little divot will form in the plastic liner). This is considered par for the course with wider wheels and tires, and enthusiasts shouldn't worry as no major damage will come from this.

* Please note, aftermarket suspensions that are known for reducing clearance in relation to the front wheels and tires will require 5mm spacers with the 10" ET25 front wheels. Examples are KW HAS, KW Variants, KW Clubsports and Ohlins R&T.

F: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18
R: 18x11" ET44 - 305/35-18
* ~15mm spacers in the rear

^ This is the most aggressive staggered fitment out of the lineup, and would typically be reserved for either a serious track/race car or a car with a substantial bump in power (supercharged / stroker). The drivers goal is to maximize wheel and tire width under the front and rear fenders, and some planning to install slicks may even opt for a 10.5" front wheel for superior sidewall support. When running 305 tires out back (especially for r-comps and slicks), the 18x11" ET44 is recommended with 12mm spacers, giving us an effective offset of ET32. The higher offset in comparison to the 18x11" ET25 is advantageous for clearance purposes.

The front tires may lightly scrub the inner fender liners at full lock or at particular steering angles, and most of the time things will "self clear" over time (a little divot will form in the plastic liner). This is considered par for the course with wider wheels and tires, and enthusiasts shouldn't worry as no major damage will come from this.

* Please note, aftermarket suspensions that are known for reducing clearance in relation to the front wheels and tires will require 5mm spacers with the 10" ET25 front wheels. Examples are KW HAS, KW Variants, KW Clubsports and Ohlins R&T.

Recommended Square Fitments

F&R: 18x9.5" ET22 - 265/35-18 or 275/35-18

F&R: 18x10" ET25 - 275/35-18

F&R: 18x10.5" ET22 - 275/35-18 or 295/30-18


- Ryan

[BigLuckyApple]

Thanks for all of the help and great input. This was exactly what I was looking for.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Don't do 10.5's for a DD. For sure.

With that out of the way, I would not run square on the street. I don't like the steering feel with so much tire/wheel up front. It tramlines more and the steering is very heavy. And even with only 10 up front you'll mess with your plastic fender liners

Even if you're going to do tracking I would still stick to staggered setup unless it's a dedicated track wheel setup

A 9 front and 10 rear setup is still very good for the track. A 9.5/10.5 is even better

Last year at Mid Ohio we swapped out our 10.5 square setup with burnt out NT01s for a ZCP (9-10) setup with RE71s and immediately picked up a couple seconds.
Believe me, square setups are overvalued. This is coming from someone with 6 sets of wheels

You couldn't pay me to use square on a daily driver

What are your thoughts on 19x10 square ZCP wheels, but with staggered 275/295 tires for a supercharged daily driver? Is the heavier steering worth it for the extra rear grip while maintaining 20mm stagger or is a 275 front really that bad for the street?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

What are your thoughts on 19x10 square ZCP wheels, but with staggered 275/295 tires for a supercharged daily driver? Is the heavier steering worth it for the extra rear grip while maintaining 20mm stagger or is a 275 front really that bad for the street?

I looove square 19x10 ZCP wheels, they are just so beautiful

Staggered tires on square wheels is fine. I've run that on the square 10.5 wheels. Up front you want some stretch to have tighter steering and out back you're fine with a 'fatter' sidewall

10 in the front isn't a PITA like 10.5 is, so from a fitment perspective you should be ok.

I personally don't like 10 up front because I feel you lose some of the great steering feel you get with 245-255 tires, but as you see in the thread there are plenty of people running it and seem happy
To be honest the E9X deals with 275 up front way better than the E46. In the E46 it would drive me nuts to park with my track wheels. In the E9X I feel it is suboptimal but not a huge deal.

If you are supercharged you definitely want a 10 in the rear. I'd use a 10.5 but I know the ZCP wheels aren't made that wide

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I looove square 19x10 ZCP wheels, they are just so beautiful

Staggered tires on square wheels is fine. I've run that on the square 10.5 wheels. Up front you want some stretch to have tighter steering and out back you're fine with a 'fatter' sidewall

10 in the front isn't a PITA like 10.5 is, so from a fitment perspective you should be ok.

I personally don't like 10 up front because I feel you lose some of the great steering feel you get with 245-255 tires, but as you see in the thread there are plenty of people running it and seem happy
To be honest the E9X deals with 275 up front way better than the E46. In the E46 it would drive me nuts to park with my track wheels. In the E9X I feel it is suboptimal but not a huge deal.

If you are supercharged you definitely want a 10 in the rear. I'd use a 10.5 but I know the ZCP wheels aren't made that wide

Thanks for the insight. I'm between a few options, all with Avante Garde M359s and stock non-ZCP suspension:

1) 19x9/19x10 245/275 - possibly not enough rear grip with the SC
2) 19x9/19x10 245/295 - too much stagger
3) 19x10/19x10 275/295 - heavy steering & loss of feel

I wish I could do 19x9/19x10 255/295 as that would be a fair compromise between the above options, but the AG wheels would rub with a 255. I'm leaning toward option 3 but I don't love the idea of heavy steering and loss of feel...

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Thanks for the insight. I'm between a few options, all with Avante Garde M359s and stock non-ZCP suspension:

1) 19x9/19x10 245/275 - possibly not enough rear grip with the SC
2) 19x9/19x10 245/295 - too much stagger
3) 19x10/19x10 275/295 - heavy steering & loss of feel

I wish I could do 19x9/19x10 255/295 as that would be a fair compromise between the above options, but the AG wheels would rub with a 255. I'm leaning toward option 3 but I don't love the idea of heavy steering and loss of feel...

Definitely wouldn't do the 245/295 stagger. What about 255/295? Still seems like a lot of stagger

Maybe you'll be perfectly happy with the 10" front. Dave07997S seems to like the setup

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Definitely wouldn't do the 245/295 stagger. What about 255/295? Still seems like a lot of stagger

Maybe you'll be perfectly happy with the 10" front. Dave07997S seems to like the setup

The AG 19x9 wheels are +18 offset and most people who have tried to run a 255 on them report rubbing. Also, the ESS air filter pushes up against the fender liner and already rubs a little with my current 245s so I don't think the taller 255 would be a good option .