AC warm, evap already replaced in 2017

[Rajmun340]

Original 2013 year model owner, AC was weak from the factory, mediocre but worked. Complained about it for 3 years (under warranty) with the dealer, until in my last year of warranty it got bad enough that they had to do something and replaced the evap and recharged the system.
After that, it slowly got weaker over the years again and now 2021, same shit, warm again.
2013-2017 is 4 years
2017-2021 is 4 years too ! This tells me they never found the original leak and the same leak is responsible.
Any thoughts ? I am planning to bring my original invoices and ask them to warranty the work that has failed again. (i have no extended insurance plan)

[Redd]

Does it get progressively warmer over the 4 yrs or is it sometimes hot, sometimes cold. If it is leaking, and takes 4 years to lose gas pressure, is it really a big issue? Just top up your ac gas every 2-3 years.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Redd

Does it get progressively warmer over the 4 yrs or is it sometimes hot, sometimes cold. If it is leaking, and takes 4 years to lose gas pressure, is it really a big issue? Just top up your ac gas every 2-3 years.

No acting up, it slowly and progressively got warmer over the 4 yrs. It was already below what most people would tolerate last year. This year yet worse, nearly like having no AC. Probably the same leak they never fixed in 2017 when they replaced the evap maybe needlessly and ran their whole battery of AC test and yet still it's failed again.

How much should an AC recharge cost at the dealer ?
I'm thinking first presenting all the evidenced past A/C related invoices (They recharged AC three times under warranty if including the evap job) and asking them to warranty that work since it obviously failed again.

If i get nowhere with them and they want to charge to find leak, I'll ask for just a recharge.

[white_4door]

there is a normal allowable leakage in an ac system, if ac is not used for extended period of time will allow small leakage over time past o rings. thats not saying something isnt leaking but like other people say maybe you just need to recharge every couple years, i have done that on my own vehicles

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by white_4door

there is a normal allowable leakage in an ac system, if ac is not used for extended period of time will allow small leakage over time past o rings. thats not saying something isnt leaking but like other people say maybe you just need to recharge every couple years, i have done that on my own vehicles

my 2004 accord is blowing freezing cold air and has never needed to add freon in 17 years.

My M3 A/C already gets in the "not cooling properly" within 3 years and "almost like no AC" by the 4th year intervals. These numbers aren't acceptable. It's my experience bmw is notorious for not recognizing and owning their factory originating defects.

But can you give a figure on a recharge cost from the dealer ?

[rcracin]

Dealers will charge 2x what an independent shop will. I refilled my ac with cans from autozone 4.5years ago and it still blows cold. So yours shouldn’t be having problems.

I’d go to a good indy shop, not a dealer. They’ll use a dye in the test and find the leak.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by rcracin

Dealers will charge 2x what an independent shop will. I refilled my ac with cans from autozone 4.5years ago and it still blows cold. So yours shouldn’t be having problems.

I’d go to a good indy shop, not a dealer. They’ll use a dye in the test and find the leak.

I read somewhere in the forum that off the shelf refill cans contain liquid leak sealers that will add constriction to your system, highly recommended to avoid.
And that the m3 AC refrigerant required pressure is much tighter than older AC systems +/- 0.5 lbs and if you put too much only by a bit, the compressor will fail with time.

[rcracin]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

I read somewhere in the forum that off the shelf refill cans contain liquid leak sealers that will add constriction to your system, highly recommended to avoid.
And that the m3 AC refrigerant required pressure is much tighter than older AC systems +/- 0.5 lbs and if you put too much only by a bit, the compressor will fail with time.

Yea, that's my problem to deal with. I've got 3 spare ac compressors from motors I've disassembled. I do my own work so if it fails, I'll figure it out.

[tdott]

Sadly alot of jobs were done very sloppy by dealer techs. I forgot the hours, but I remember the job not paying well under warranty and it was a time consuming job.

Techs would rush the job and generally not do it properly so it would leak again.

Sadly techs being paid a flat rate, give them no incentive to do a good job, esp if the come back chance is years down the road.

Techs want to make money, they want to finish 8hr jobs in 4hrs. If a job pays 8hrs and takes 8hrs, they will generally whine and moan all day and I've seen shitty work because of it.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by tdott

Sadly alot of jobs were done very sloppy by dealer techs. I forgot the hours, but I remember the job not paying well under warranty and it was a time consuming job.

Techs would rush the job and generally not do it properly so it would leak again.

Sadly techs being paid a flat rate, give them no incentive to do a good job, esp if the come back chance is years down the road.

Techs want to make money, they want to finish 8hr jobs in 4hrs. If a job pays 8hrs and takes 8hrs, they will generally whine and moan all day and I've seen shitty work because of it.

That explains a lot, sloppy jobs from dealer techs is what i experienced during my M3 ownership. When i factory ordered the car i thought I was avoiding the gauntlet of dealer repairs but I went through more repairs than any used car i owned. That alone would not be cause for complaint as long as dealers and bmw stood strongly behind their product. But my experience showed that both do not. Repair is a money machine for the dealer and something bmw reluctantly agrees to under warranty. Out of every single repair, i'd say 40% resulted in some negative repercussion and i changed dealers several time so it's not a bad apple problem. The signs of skipping through and botching jobs are obvious : paint damage, stripped screws in place they think you'll never know, gaps in body parts that had to be removed and put back for certain parts replacement, interior soil ups, failure to repair after 2 returns, etc..
Almost every other repair would return the car with some side damages that most people won't notice until later. They often fail to fix issues despite all the step by step bmw software diagnosis tools they are following. BMW is slow at learning the real issues their cars have and their automated decision software often direct techs in the wrong direction because they don't adapt the software over time to real problems encountered in the field. Then to block you from complaining further they write invoice saying the problem is fixed when sometimes it's not. You come back later and
they claim they fixed it last time but didn't.
All i can say is my experience with other brands was never as bad.

[C-los]

A lot of the times it's not the manufacturer, but the dealer themselves that refuse to stand behind the product. Though yes, a lot of techs half ass their work due to flag rate, and wanting to make as much as possible. once a dealer touches something, the manufacturer hold THEM responsible. (and yes, some jobs don't pay "well" for the work that needs to be done, but you win elsewhere, i assure you. SO, sometimes, theyd rathe make their 1.4 on a quick recharge, then rip your dash out.

Do note: BMW has weak evap cores, there have been updates for some models. 4 years, isn't really bad for freon being a 'little' low. But, it doesn't hurt to have it checked out.
Bad diags get back flagged, shit surveys takes money away at the end of the qtr, etc etc.
Overall, dealers are so desperate to hire 'techs' that they just hire almost anyone, and pray they learn. Leading to shit dealer support.


R134a, recovery, vacuum/leak check, and recharge should be anymore than ~$200 afer taxes and all. Probablyless at an indy.
Also, ask if they have a freon sniffer, helps check evap cores, etc.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by C-los

Do note: BMW has weak evap cores, there have been updates for some models. 4 years, isn't really bad for freon being a 'little' low. But, it doesn't hurt to have it checked out.
Bad diags get back flagged, shit surveys takes money away at the end of the qtr, etc etc.
Overall, dealers are so desperate to hire 'techs' that they just hire almost anyone, and pray they learn. Leading to shit dealer support.


R134a, recovery, vacuum/leak check, and recharge should be anymore than ~$200 afer taxes and all. Probablyless at an indy.
Also, ask if they have a freon sniffer, helps check evap cores, etc.

thank you, your post is detailed but you completely miss the point. My AC is not 'a little bit low', it'd say after 2.5 years or even 2 years it's already mediocre, at 3 years 99% would deem it unacceptable, i waited 4 years because it's not my daily and a recurring problem since factory that even evap did not fix, i have little faith for them to fix it at this point. Second, talking about the evap being the problem again after they already replaced it is preposterous.

[rcracin]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

thank you, your post is detailed but you completely miss the point. My AC is not 'a little bit low', it'd say after 2.5 years or even 2 years it's already mediocre, at 3 years 99% would deem it unacceptable, i waited 4 years because it's not my daily and a recurring problem since factory that even evap did not fix, i have little faith for them to fix it at this point. Second, talking about the evap being the problem again after they already replaced it is preposterous.

You've got quite an attitude and high expectations for a guy asking for help.

Stop being cheap and go pay an indy shop. Otherwise dont be a dick on the forums when ppl are brainstorming on your behalf.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by rcracin

You've got quite an attitude and high expectations for a guy asking for help.

Stop being cheap and go pay an indy shop. Otherwise dont be a dick on the forums when ppl are brainstorming on your behalf.

Sorry, but i made clear what is the state of my A/C in my OP, diverging from that and incorrectly representing what i said, is derailing the thread usefulness. Corrective reply is normal.
Furthermore i did politely thank him first.
Stop being a dick and interfering with normal thread process, if you cannot take normal argumentation then don't post on the forum.

[white_4door]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

my 2004 accord is blowing freezing cold air and has never needed to add freon in 17 years.

My M3 A/C already gets in the "not cooling properly" within 3 years and "almost like no AC" by the 4th year intervals. These numbers aren't acceptable. It's my experience bmw is notorious for not recognizing and owning their factory originating defects.

But can you give a figure on a recharge cost from the dealer ?

i believe around 200 where i work. and after reading a lot of the post on here sounds like you go to some pretty bad dealers. i have been working for a dealer for 11 years and personally own 4 bmws. i am a dealer tech and have always taken pride in my work and as i agree that some people cut corners i can tell you it doesnt fly where i work. comparing japanese market cars to european cars is apples to oranges, a honda can go 200,000 miles and not leak oil, probably go through 4 sets of tires is not something you compare to a vehicle that you can go to the track with every weekend and still comfortably drive to work every day of the week. i was just giving you the facts and spec that they give, not saying you dont have an issue. personally you need to find a place you trust and build personal relationships whether its a dealership that you can request having the same tech every time you go or an independent.

[Bryanferra]

Originally Posted by white_4door

i believe around 200 where i work. and after reading a lot of the post on here sounds like you go to some pretty bad dealers. i have been working for a dealer for 11 years and personally own 4 bmws. i am a dealer tech and have always taken pride in my work and as i agree that some people cut corners i can tell you it doesnt fly where i work. comparing japanese market cars to european cars is apples to oranges, a honda can go 200,000 miles and not leak oil, probably go through 4 sets of tires is not something you compare to a vehicle that you can go to the track with every weekend and still comfortably drive to work every day of the week. i was just giving you the facts and spec that they give, not saying you dont have an issue. personally you need to find a place you trust and build personal relationships whether its a dealership that you can request having the same tech every time you go or an independent.

Glad to see your post. I'm also a dealer tech, not for BMW but for another german brand and I can tell you I don't cut corners either. I made 77 hours this week (5 days) and none of it was from rushing and/or skipping steps. Cars come back every now and then from a mistake but it isn't often and usually a minuscule issue.

There is for sure flaws in flat rate. But it really helps get customers cars out. Otherwise you'd have joe shmoe on the shitter wasting time instead of getting the work done.

[tbuck]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

How much should an AC recharge cost at the dealer ?
I'm thinking first presenting all the evidenced past A/C related invoices (They recharged AC three times under warranty if including the evap job) and asking them to warranty that work since it obviously failed again.

If i get nowhere with them and they want to charge to find leak, I'll ask for just a recharge.

^I find this attitude odd. Do you want it fixed or not? As you suggested previously, and I agree with you, they didn't find the leak the first time and just replaced the evap coil as a "that should do it" stop gap. AC systems are not rocket science and leaks are fairly easy to spot with dye or a freon sniffer, so if you have no faith in the dealer take it to a reputable indy shop and get it diagnosed and fixed. Yes that will cost money, but so does everything on these cars.

Short of that I would personally buy a can of DIY freon (with no additives, they do have these) and top it off myself. Done that dozens of times over the years with many different cars. Also I have never had an adverse issue when using the type that contains dye and o-ring treatment to help reduce a leak, and in some cases it has worked, YMMV. But using these will not cause your AC system to grenade itself, that is just urban myth. BMW AC systems are nothing special, and I have always found them to be a bit weak, and comparing them to your honda, well they are never going to be that good. Sad to say.

[WayneM3]

Every few years the A/C in my 2009 stops blowing cold air. At first, I added a can of refrigerant and it worked for the season. After a few years of adding it, I had my friend at a body shop evacuate and recharge the system and the machine did not detect any leaks or issues. That worked for a while and then it started to get warm again so I added more refrigerant. I used this one and had good luck. Each year when it starts to warm up in the Spring I test the A/C to see if I am going to have to add more. This year I did not add any and everything seems ok so far.

Adding it is a pretty easy DIY job, especially if you have done it before. The connector that you need to get to is buried so you have to remove a cover under the hood by the wipers but it only takes a few minutes.

[Drv4fun]

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887759

Check that link, some e9x I was told may have had those same failing parts.

I had this issue on my 135i, changed 2 times under warranty as it kept failing after a year.

[Gossypiboma]

If for whatever reason you're not comfortable recharging it yourself for cheap then take it to a shop. Otherwise, BMW isn't going to listen to your theory of the worlds smallest leak that takes 4 years to manifest.

[Drv4fun]

Originally Posted by Gossypiboma

Get it recharged and move on. No shop is going to listen to your theory of the worlds smallest leak that takes 4 years to manifest.

[omgzirra_exe]

it's better to have a AC specialty shop do it, they have better methods of adding freon.