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      12-11-2018, 09:25 PM   #969
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Does anyone know what parts of our engines use manganese? My most recent oil analysis was normal except for high manganese. I read somewhere online that manganese is used sometimes on anti friction bearings. This oil wad bmw twin turbo 10w60 on a 2011 m3 dct. All other levels are normal but manganese was 95 while 6k miles ago it was only 1. Very interesting.
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      12-11-2018, 10:42 PM   #970
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my first oil analysis

Purchased 2010 E92 M3 with 82K miles on last day of Sept 2018, and from Carfax records, could approximate when the last oil change was reportedly done.

Sent in my first oil analysis after nearly 5000 miles since the previous owner's oil change, because I wanted to know. I had asked about possibly mixing 10w60 and 0w40 as I'm in Chicago, it's 21F outside now and takes forever for the car to warm up, keeping it between 2000 - 3000 rpm until it comes to temp. Seems odd that they tell me it's a nice first report, but to watch copper levels closely because its 2x the average value already? I'm thinking one more lab report, and change out RB before November next year if it looks the same, but immediately if it looks like a worsening trend?
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Last edited by PilotAce; 12-11-2018 at 10:48 PM..
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      12-11-2018, 11:09 PM   #971
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The 2010s bearings were mainly made of lead right? Copper is what the 2011s+ are made of. If that is the case i think you are groovy.

I don't know about 0w40 i know the audi b7 rs4 4.2 liter v8 that revs to 8200 rpm uses 0w40 or 5w40 i just always have used motul 10w60 with no issues but i do add a can of liquimoly ceratec to every oil change. Helps with wear and friction.
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      12-16-2018, 07:27 AM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post
Seems odd that they tell me it's a nice first report, but to watch copper levels closely because its 2x the average value already? I'm thinking one more lab report, and change out RB before November next year if it looks the same, but immediately if it looks like a worsening trend?
I wouldn't sweat 4ppm versus 2ppm. The test repeatability and reproducibility is most likely greater that 2ppm, which means they are essentially the same number.
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      12-22-2018, 11:03 AM   #973
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Thanks for your insight on this. Yeah, results are probably within range of testing variances to be essentially normal. This whole issue keeps me from flooring it, especially when it takes so long to warm up now. Really wish I knew if the previous owner already DID the rod bearings swap, as I bought it at 82k miles...
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      01-10-2019, 04:33 PM   #974
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115K on S65

Original Rod bearings fyi.
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      01-28-2019, 03:40 PM   #975
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2008 6MT
498 miles on the oil
83368 miles on the engine

Bought this car with just over 80k miles on it and a few thousand left on the most recent oil change. Previous owner had used Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60.

I had the rod bearings changed preventatively. Went with BMW 702/703 bearings. At that time, the oil was replaced with BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, which I am continuing to use. The shop advised me that a 500 mile OCI was probably-not-necessary-but-advisable-and-harmless after a rod bearing change, so I did that. This sample is from that OCI.

Not sure where the lead is coming from. Hoping it's just left over from the old rod bearings. What are the main bearings made of? Are they lead/copper like the old rod bearings?

Pretty sure the fuel dilution was from cold running due to a failing thermostat (just replaced), plus a fair number of short trips.

Copying the numbers here because Polaris's reports are kind of annoying to read:


Iron - 5
Chromium - 0
Nickel - 0
Aluminum - 1
Copper - 0
Lead - 8
Tin - 0
Cadmium - 0
Silver - 0
Vanadium - 0
Silicon - 4
Sodium - 4
Potassium - 1
Titanium - 1
Molybdenum - 54
Antimony - 0
Manganese - 0
Lithium - 0
Boron - 60
Magnesium - 26
Calcium - 2499
Barium - 0
Phosphorus - 861
Zinc - 961

Fuel Dilution - 1.8% (by GC)
Soot - <0.1% by vol.
Water - <0.1% by vol.

Viscosity @ 100º C - 18.6
TBN - 7.06
Oxidation - 9
Nitration - 9

Particle Quantifier (PQ) Index - 11
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      01-29-2019, 07:07 PM   #976
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2012 M3 with 29020 miles.

4500 miles on the oil.
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      01-30-2019, 12:22 PM   #977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3 View Post
i do add a can of liquimoly ceratec to every oil change. Helps with wear and friction.

Do you have proof of that? BMW recommends against using oil additives. In fact, most OEMs recommend against it.
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      01-30-2019, 06:23 PM   #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Do you have proof of that? BMW recommends against using oil additives. In fact, most OEMs recommend against it.
You can google the product. There is a lot of research on it. In my own experience it seems it has made my vehicles run quieter at all times and smoother at high rpms. Also some small benefits in mpg. Seems like a good product but I have always used additives in my engines. Trying to get every extra HP I can lol!
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      01-31-2019, 02:57 PM   #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamFODI View Post
2008 6MT
498 miles on the oil
83368 miles on the engine

Bought this car with just over 80k miles on it and a few thousand left on the most recent oil change. Previous owner had used Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60.

I had the rod bearings changed preventatively. Went with BMW 702/703 bearings. At that time, the oil was replaced with BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, which I am continuing to use. The shop advised me that a 500 mile OCI was probably-not-necessary-but-advisable-and-harmless after a rod bearing change, so I did that. This sample is from that OCI.

Not sure where the lead is coming from. Hoping it's just left over from the old rod bearings. What are the main bearings made of? Are they lead/copper like the old rod bearings?

Pretty sure the fuel dilution was from cold running due to a failing thermostat (just replaced), plus a fair number of short trips.

Copying the numbers here because Polaris's reports are kind of annoying to read:


Iron - 5
Chromium - 0
Nickel - 0
Aluminum - 1
Copper - 0
Lead - 8
Tin - 0
Cadmium - 0
Silver - 0
Vanadium - 0
Silicon - 4
Sodium - 4
Potassium - 1
Titanium - 1
Molybdenum - 54
Antimony - 0
Manganese - 0
Lithium - 0
Boron - 60
Magnesium - 26
Calcium - 2499
Barium - 0
Phosphorus - 861
Zinc - 961

Fuel Dilution - 1.8% (by GC)
Soot - <0.1% by vol.
Water - <0.1% by vol.

Viscosity @ 100º C - 18.6
TBN - 7.06
Oxidation - 9
Nitration - 9

Particle Quantifier (PQ) Index - 11
Mains are the same material as the Rod bearings, with the same clearance issues, according to the people who know things

Just looked at my reports. My change after about 400 miles after BE bearings went from 20 lead to 2, then 0 on the next oil change 3500 miles later
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      01-31-2019, 06:56 PM   #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Mains are the same material as the Rod bearings, with the same clearance issues, according to the people who know things

Just looked at my reports. My change after about 400 miles after BE bearings went from 20 lead to 2, then 0 on the next oil change 3500 miles later
Thanks, Richbot.

So, lead/copper mains? Interesting as it seems fairly common for these engines to show little or no lead, even with leaded rod bearings AND mains -- including yours, apparently. The few UOA reports I've seen from S65s with 702/703 rod bearings all seem to show zero lead, IIRC.

Am I off-base on any of that? All of it together would seem to suggest that ICP spectroscopy is pretty much useless for detecting main bearing wear -- maybe because main bearings chuck out large particles when they do wear, and basically nothing when they don't. That'd be a slight contrast with rod bearings, which seem to produce ICP-friendly particles at least some of the time when they wear.

Last edited by IamFODI; 01-31-2019 at 08:42 PM..
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      02-11-2019, 01:53 PM   #981
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I think the mains just wear less, it's a much bigger bearing that isn't moving. The expectation for bearings like these, rod or main, should be "almost-no wear" according to the same people who seem to know things, so getting to the detection threshold for the machine with metal shed from the mains is probably just a lot less likely at the OCI's we're using

WE'll see if there's lead on my next change, I'm going to run one again at 116k
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      02-11-2019, 02:11 PM   #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Mains are the same material as the Rod bearings, with the same clearance issues, according to the people who know things

Just looked at my reports. My change after about 400 miles after BE bearings went from 20 lead to 2, then 0 on the next oil change 3500 miles later
just want to clarify : RB material changed from copper/lead to alum/tin in 2011. does the main bearing material also changed or the change was only on RB?
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      02-13-2019, 08:03 AM   #983
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Is anyone else doing particle quantifier (PQ) testing with their oil analysis in these engines? I've seen basically nothing besides the standard Blackstone analysis, maybe with a TBN/TAN here and there.
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      02-15-2019, 11:18 AM   #984
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I don't know if the mains are same material at same exact time and changeover etc. but that's my understanding. I'd have to look at the parts fiche same as you
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      02-15-2019, 01:20 PM   #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Do you have proof of that? BMW recommends against using oil additives. In fact, most OEMs recommend against it.
Not really a proof, but gives an idea of what it does with/without vs. most basic oils.

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      03-07-2019, 07:18 PM   #986
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E90 M3 Post MRF RB Svc-Castrol Supercar 10w60-2,500 Miles

My apology for the delay in posting this one, got busy and forgot. Sample was taken 10/30/18 just under 2.5K miles after MRF (Malek's the man!) did my rod bearings when the car had just under 40K miles. Nothing much to see. Car was driven back from MRF in SoCal then used for commuting and one track day. I have switched labs to get an actual fuel dilution test versus statistical assumption as well as Oxidization and Nitration. Note the decline in Titanium versus prior Castrol revisions. This may just be washout from the prior oil, which was Castrol Edge Pro and Supercar is no longer using it as part of the adpack. Also, I could be wrong but I think Calcium, Zinc, and Phosphorus are up going back to more old school like LM. Final thoughts on Castrol are that my VANOS noise is more prominent versus BMW branded Shell, it runs cooler on the track and street, and consumes much less oil.
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      03-21-2019, 07:47 AM   #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Not really a proof, but gives an idea of what it does with/without vs. most basic oils.

If it worked, why wouldn't Liqui Moly just add it to their conventional oil? Similarly, if fuel cleaners and octane boosters really cleaned engines why wouldn't these products be added at the refinery?
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      03-21-2019, 08:17 AM   #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InnerBlueSkies View Post
If it worked, why wouldn't Liqui Moly just add it to their conventional oil? Similarly, if fuel cleaners and octane boosters really cleaned engines why wouldn't these products be added at the refinery?
Cost. These go for $30 where I live for 300ml. Most people just don't care about slight performance boost.

Also, Adding too much MoS2 and BN would make the engine oil semi-solid which would do more harm than good for obvious reasons. LM clearly states to use 6% of total capacity to avoid problems.
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      04-03-2019, 06:00 PM   #989
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Does anyone know if I can send old oil? I placed it in the container blackstone sent but have not sent it out yet. It's been 2 months.
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      04-03-2019, 07:05 PM   #990
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Does anyone know if I can send old oil? I placed it in the container blackstone sent but have not sent it out yet. It's been 2 months.
Yes. I’m bad about that and do it all the time.
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