Track forum general chit chat.

CorruptCommie · 08-03-2018, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

Huh, that is odd. Just checked ECS's website and their instructions don't even specify a torque value, they just say "torque to [the car] manufacturer's spec". Motorsport Hardware and Turner do not have the information available on their website. Bimmerworld specifies 75 ft-lbs. I wonder if Apex and ECS are not taking the time to research if the studs need different torque than simply "OEM"? Although, I am not a metallurgist, so I'm just throwing out guesses here

That is because only one of these companies actually sells race track products. The rest primarily cater to the street crowd. BW's studs are manufactured by http://glstopstud.com/Home_Page.php

Visceral · 08-03-2018, 01:57 PM

Hmmm.

Based on previous failures of studs, I have not applied red locktight and I re-tighten the stud in the hub hand-tight each time I install a wheel. The stud has a light application of anti-seize on the nut end that seems to mitigate (or hide) the white buildup that roastbeef mentioned. I got the same buildup before I started using the antiseize.

I'm worried about torque cycles. If I add the track days (8) with autocross weekends (8), thats 32 on-off a year.

Maybe I'll swap them out every year. :-/

Chris_PDX · 08-03-2018, 02:26 PM

How do you know when it's time to upgrade to a BBK? The car will tell you.

dparm · 08-03-2018, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

How do you know when it's time to upgrade to a BBK? The car will tell you.

Nice work. Hopefully no major damage to the rest of the car.

Were the rotors near minimum thickness?

roastbeef · 08-03-2018, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

How do you know when it's time to upgrade to a BBK? The car will tell you.

What's that on?

jid2 · 08-03-2018, 03:27 PM

^^^^ A Car, looks like a BMW.

ThunderMoose · 08-03-2018, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

How do you know when it's time to upgrade to a BBK? The car will tell you.

Slotted rotors

Chris_PDX · 08-03-2018, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dparm

Nice work. Hopefully no major damage to the rest of the car.

Were the rotors near minimum thickness?

No, but happened at the same time as shearing wheel studs. The rotors were three months old, with about 4.25 track days on them (the 0.25 was a very rainy 3 session event which doesn't count). About 5.5 hours of total track time.

Brand new Cobalt XR2 pads were put on last week.

Chris_PDX · 08-03-2018, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roastbeef

What's that on?

An E46 M3.

roastbeef · 08-03-2018, 03:59 PM

damn, not much time on those at all... i kinda wonder if they had a manufacturing defect.

bigjae1976 · 08-03-2018, 04:05 PM

That rotor got super hot, you can see the blue surface. Probably expanded too quickly and PING!

I've seen 3 PFC DD rotors with this same failure on E46/E90 M3s

Chris_PDX · 08-03-2018, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

That rotor got super hot, you can see the blue surface. Probably expanded too quickly and PING!

I've seen 3 PFC DD rotors with this same failure on E46/E90 M3s

I was running 1:29's all day at PIR and then a friend jumped in and did a few 1:28s and a 1:27. Which, in a stock power E46, is blisteringly fast around this track.

The Cobalt XR2 pads handled it like a champ. The rotor.... not so much.

ayao · 08-03-2018, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

No, but happened at the same time as shearing wheel studs. The rotors were three months old, with about 4.25 track days on them (the 0.25 was a very rainy 3 session event which doesn't count). About 5.5 hours of total track time.

Brand new Cobalt XR2 pads were put on last week.

Wow. Thats not very much time. Unlikely to be related, but what brand rotors?

Mantii · 08-03-2018, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

How do you know when it's time to upgrade to a BBK? The car will tell you.

Damn, that's some scary shit

inTgr8r · 08-03-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visceral

Hmmm.

Based on previous failures of studs, I have not applied red locktight and I re-tighten the stud in the hub hand-tight each time I install a wheel. The stud has a light application of anti-seize on the nut end that seems to mitigate (or hide) the white buildup that roastbeef mentioned. I got the same buildup before I started using the antiseize.

I'm worried about torque cycles. If I add the track days (8) with autocross weekends (8), thats 32 on-off a year.

Maybe I'll swap them out every year. :-/

FWIW we had a guy this week that his studs were backing out when installed this way.

macdude357 · 08-03-2018, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visceral

Hmmm.

Based on previous failures of studs, I have not applied red locktight and I re-tighten the stud in the hub hand-tight each time I install a wheel. The stud has a light application of anti-seize on the nut end that seems to mitigate (or hide) the white buildup that roastbeef mentioned. I got the same buildup before I started using the antiseize.

I'm worried about torque cycles. If I add the track days (8) with autocross weekends (8), thats 32 on-off a year.

Maybe I'll swap them out every year. :-/

I've heard of people having their studs back out when using blue loctite instead of red. I can't imagine not using loctite at all. I'm curious to know how not using loctite prevents premature failure. Even it if does, seems like you are trading the risk of having them back out vs break. Seems like it would be better to mitigate the breakage risk by changing them more often.

roastbeef · 08-03-2018, 08:38 PM

Has anyone even heard of a stud just backing out?

We've all heard of studs breaking and there has been some good discussion on the subject... I've never heard of studs backing out or lugnuts becoming loose after a day of tracking.

inTgr8r · 08-03-2018, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Has anyone even heard of a stud just backing out?

We've all heard of studs breaking and there has been some good discussion on the subject... I've never heard of studs backing out or lugnuts becoming loose after a day of tracking.

not when installed properly.

but I did see it first hand this week when installed w/o red loctite.

roastbeef · 08-03-2018, 08:48 PM

I meant when installed properly.

inTgr8r · 08-03-2018, 08:56 PM

I haven't heard of any myself.

roastbeef · 08-03-2018, 09:03 PM

Picked up a handy storage tool today. It's called the "funnel buddy." It holds a funnel to keep it from dripping oil after you're done, and it keeps dust from accumulating in the top.
I'm planning on modifying it to fit my other funnel.

ayao · 08-03-2018, 09:09 PM

+1 Coors

08-03-2018, 01:57 PM	#6426
Visceral Lieutenant 363 Rep 554 Posts Drives: E90 M track mule, cars n bikes Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Oregon iTrader: (1)	Hmmm. Based on previous failures of studs, I have not applied red locktight and I re-tighten the stud in the hub hand-tight each time I install a wheel. The stud has a light application of anti-seize on the nut end that seems to mitigate (or hide) the white buildup that roastbeef mentioned. I got the same buildup before I started using the antiseize. I'm worried about torque cycles. If I add the track days (8) with autocross weekends (8), thats 32 on-off a year. Maybe I'll swap them out every year. :-/
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 02:26 PM	#6427
Chris_PDX Lieutenant 337 Rep 407 Posts Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (0) Garage List 2002 BMW M3 [0.00] 2012 BMW M3 Coupe [0.00]	How do you know when it's time to upgrade to a BBK? The car will tell you.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 03:27 PM	#6430
jid2 Private First Class 239 Rep 170 Posts Drives: '12 E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Maple Valley- Redmond, WA iTrader: (2)	^^^^ A Car, looks like a BMW. __________________ 2012 E92 M3 ZCP MCS 2WR coilovers 600F/900R, Performance Friction ZF54 front BBK, stainless lines, Ferodo DS 2500 rear pads, Hotchkins F/R swaybars, solid subframe mounts, BE Bearings, ARP rod bolts, Bimmerworld motor mounts, AFe intake, underdrive, CSF radiator, GT4 front lip (ebay), APR GT 500, ebay side skirts, RaceEng tug, 15mm/10mm spacers on ZCP wheels, Apex ARC 8 18x10 square track wheels with Pirelli 265 DH slicks
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 03:59 PM	#6434
roastbeef Lieutenant General 11586 Rep 12,728 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4)	damn, not much time on those at all... i kinda wonder if they had a manufacturing defect. __________________ Instagram; @roastbeefmike
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 04:05 PM	#6435
bigjae1976 Major General 1571 Rep 8,076 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (22) Garage List 2004 BMW M3 [4.50] 2011 BMW E90 M3 [5.25] 2013 BMW 328i [5.00]	That rotor got super hot, you can see the blue surface. Probably expanded too quickly and PING! I've seen 3 PFC DD rotors with this same failure on E46/E90 M3s __________________ 2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red 2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 08:38 PM	#6441
roastbeef Lieutenant General 11586 Rep 12,728 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4)	Has anyone even heard of a stud just backing out? We've all heard of studs breaking and there has been some good discussion on the subject... I've never heard of studs backing out or lugnuts becoming loose after a day of tracking. __________________ Instagram; @roastbeefmike
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 08:48 PM	#6443
roastbeef Lieutenant General 11586 Rep 12,728 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4)	I meant when installed properly. __________________ Instagram; @roastbeefmike
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 08:56 PM	#6444
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2432 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	I haven't heard of any myself. __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 09:03 PM	#6445
roastbeef Lieutenant General 11586 Rep 12,728 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (4)	Picked up a handy storage tool today. It's called the "funnel buddy." It holds a funnel to keep it from dripping oil after you're done, and it keeps dust from accumulating in the top. I'm planning on modifying it to fit my other funnel. Attached Images __________________ Instagram; @roastbeefmike
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2018, 09:09 PM	#6446
ayao Thread killer 643 Rep 1,896 Posts Drives: 1M Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: CA iTrader: (2)	+1 Coors
	Appreciate 1 roastbeef11586.00 Quote