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07-19-2018, 07:36 AM | #23 |
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BMW designed lots of plastic parts in the car that can break at high mileage, look at BMW's infamous plastic cooling systems. Lets make everything out of metal?
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07-19-2018, 07:55 AM | #24 | |
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Attached is another pic where you can see the loose spring. I originally tried to patch the hole in the valve cover with JB Weld and run without the cap. I drove very lightly for a couple months to see if there would be any issues and everything was fine until I eventually took the car up to redline, then it started leaking oil again. There should be no debate here - the caps are absolutely necessary! I strongly advise you not to take chances with this and get the VANOS unit(s) replaced. I lucked out in that no damage was done by the metal coming off the valve/timing chain covers going through the oil. I was very paranoid about long term effects after seeing what came out of the oil filter. My biggest concern was that the metal would damage the rod bearings and destroy the oil pump, but luckily the oil filter caught it all. And who knows what sort of damage the plastic shards could've done had they gotten jammed up in the wrong place. This issue was an absolute nightmare for me, especially because it occurred immediately after I purchased my car.
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Last edited by Iyzmi; 07-19-2018 at 08:08 AM.. |
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07-19-2018, 08:16 AM | #25 | |
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EDIT: Since you deleted that post I assume you figured that out.
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07-19-2018, 09:19 AM | #26 | |
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_W...hGN2FBS0k/view |
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07-19-2018, 11:32 AM | #27 | |
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I mean that cap will not save spring to go in this direction and remove it off from VANOS unit: But you were talking about issue when spring can expand like this, if there's no caps, right? |
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07-19-2018, 03:43 PM | #28 |
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Nope.
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07-19-2018, 05:50 PM | #29 | |
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This was hard to find, I stumbled on it via another thread talking about cold start rattles and discussing oil galleries/pathways. Excellent reading and the only place I've seen cutaway images and descriptions of how this version of the Vanos works. The cap does indeed clip on around its edge via about 6 narrow tabs - I didn't know this when inspecting the one I removed, and broke it when prising off. The bakelite(?) gets brittle and fragile with all the heat cycles by the look of it.. Although it's weak/thin/light, I can see how it would help to keep the spring in place if it wanted to walk out of its outer retaining pins. It was great to see the cutaway pics as before I couldn't work out how the oil caused relative rotation of the two parts! Now it is clear! That little locking pin is interesting too - I assume there is a little oil gallery that allows the oil pressure to act on the lip of that pin and push against its little spring force, to retract it (disengage) when the engine fires up. Interesting. Deansbimmer, do you think that oil draining from the unit might allow a rattle on cold startup? By this I mean that if one side is being fed oil but the other is "dry", that the rotor may slap against the stator due to lack of resistance? I read another thread about a guy (M3PO?) solving cold start rattle by replacing a vanos unit, so perhaps something to do with the spring/pin/leaking/sealing..? |
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07-19-2018, 09:03 PM | #30 | |
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I would encourage everyone to look in their oil filler hole, and rotate the engine by hand, observing the black caps on the vanos unit/s that you can see on that RHS, to make sure they are properly seated and that nothing looks suspicious! Here's what I saw with mine (notice the cap deformed/bulging): Note the damage/peeling of the coating on the valve cover! Luckily I had an old picture from 2 years ago, that I took because I noticed this back then. The second picture shows this peeling from 2 years ago, with that coating damage there back then... So I assume it is not related. (note i wiped i with my finger hence the smudge marks). Question: Does this engine always stop in the same position? Currently, it stopped essentially at TDC. If it always does this, then I could tell that the vanos cap issue has occurred sometime in the past 2 years, and definitely since I have owned the car. So it could not be from someone else messing around in there at all, and must be the result of some operational/mechanical effect while running. It looks like it might be in the same position in the 2 pics, as there is a very slight indent/mark on the cap that coincides with the alignment tabs that are on the inside surface of the cap (clearly visible in the first pic (the small light spot), and maybe noticeable in the second (although i hand't wiped the cover and hard to tell exactly)). Thoughts? Last edited by SkinnedKnuckles; 07-19-2018 at 09:09 PM.. |
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07-19-2018, 09:10 PM | #31 |
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Can you get a used set of gears from a motor with a spun bearing and just swap the covers?
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07-19-2018, 09:15 PM | #32 |
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BTW, here are the key pages from that document that describes and illustrates the Vanos in these cars. Very different than the previous/other helical gear arrangement vanos system!
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07-19-2018, 09:27 PM | #33 | |
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I could also take the unit apart (although bmw advises clearly not to!) to ensure everything "looks ok", but I guess I would never be sure about proper oil sealing on all those surfaces in there! It might look fine but there could be some reason that they spun that I cannot deduce just by inspecting them..? BreakMyWallet! The only unusual thing i have noticed was a rattle upon start-up once immediately after the previous oil change. Just once, just after the change, never again. This oil change was after the other weird faint ticky/clacky sound appeared, so I knew that i didn't do something during the change to cause the new sound to surface. The rattle happened only for a couple of seconds, i assume until oil pressure built up. The interesting thing is that I have done several oil changes on this car and never heard this before upon restarting. Never. It was very rattly, I presumed timing chain slapping about until the tensioner saw pressure... I am starting to think that that rattle was somehow the cause of the spun vanos caps? if those units/gears were oscillating hard (or the internal rotors perhaps slapping against the "stators", this may have caused the caps to spin due to their inertial response..? Long shot I know, but I cannot think of another logical explanation or any other forces acting on those caps to make them spin and ride up on their alignment tabs like that! |
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07-21-2018, 02:01 PM | #34 |
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Well this is something I've seen pop up on the forums a few times over the years. Wonder if an aftermarket solution made of Delrin or Nylon would be a possibility?
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07-23-2018, 07:58 AM | #35 | |
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07-23-2018, 08:00 AM | #36 |
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07-23-2018, 08:01 AM | #37 | ||
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07-23-2018, 08:15 AM | #38 |
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The OEM material is already the most robust for the application. 99% of these covers are working just fine in these engines, often well past 100k miles. You're not going to find an oil impervious 3D printable material that is going to beat that. And would you really want to risk testing one? When they fall apart they will clog the pickups and impede oiling.
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07-24-2018, 07:05 AM | #39 | |
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Only special plastic molding can work fine. |
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07-27-2018, 06:22 PM | #40 | |
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I have ordered another unit for the LHS inlet camshaft; I figure it's safest just to replace despite by knowing what caused the spun caps. I was thinking about options for an alternative, not that I'm trying to find one now, just a thought - perhaps a modified washer for that central bolt could do it..? That washer could be replaced with a larger disc-like design that extends out over the spring, with appropriate clearance of course. Could be machined with slots or holes, but would effectively act as a retaining disc/cover for the spring...? It would then be sturdy, heat resistant etc., and not be able to come off at all! Perhaps even a thin disc added over the washer, perhaps a 1mm thick disc (perforated/slotted perhaps), as there is a decent amount of thread engagement on that central screw so 1mm less is unlikely to hurt..? Just some random thoughts for a Saturday morning! I'm still perplexed as to why my covers spun though!! On both inlet adjusters! I still think it must be some kind of inertial response to rapid jolting/oscillation of the adjuster somehow... Strange... Sure hope it does't happen to the new ones I put in - Big $$!! Cheers |
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07-27-2018, 06:26 PM | #41 |
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Oh and I also discovered that my idler pulley on the aircon side is on the way out (bearing). Not bad bad but getting there. This could have been the cause of my faint ticking sound, I sure hope so. In any case, I'm glad I spotted the cam adjuster cap issue, as I'd hate to be pulling the sump etc off if those caps came off and got munched up in there
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08-23-2018, 09:10 AM | #43 |
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Not as impressive as you seem to think. I too thought the cap may not be very important. I initially left the VANOS cap off when I discovered this issue and simply patched the hole in my valve cover with JB weld to see if it would come back (pic attached). 3 months and about 5,000km later - the hole in the valve cover was back. The harder you drive the car, the quicker shit will hit the fan. Likely nothing will happen if you drive the car lightly though. Not sure why you choose to ignore the photographic evidence I have posted and the advice of one of this forum's most trusted technicians.
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08-23-2018, 09:59 AM | #44 | |
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*this was written with humor in mind, don't come at me* |
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