M3 vs 440i (w/mppsk)

[mwalter14]

Looking to gather some insights from the community on this one as I am seriously contemplating switching to the e92 platform from f32.

I currently own a 440i coupe with the MPPSK (360hp) but am having trouble falling in love with it, I bought with the reasoning that it was a superior 'dollar per unit of fun' alternative to drive over the M4 as a DD... also I felt it sounds alot better than the s55.

I have had it for 3000kms now but am slightly disappointed with its inherent lack of driver engagement and lack of stiffness. It does not feel hardcore in any way (to be expected from a non-M) but I thought the coupe version would have at least a bit of these characteristics, especially when compared to the 340. It is, however, blisteringly fast, comfortable and sounds great with the pops and backfires with the MPPSK. Regardless, I figured a move to an e92 m3 might give me more of what im searching for in terms of connected drive/stiffness/throttle response. It may feel a bit slower with less torque available down low, but a fair compromise for a 8300rpm redline.

The e92's I am considering would be 12/13 models with some warranty left, so the prices will be somewhat close to what I would get trade-in for my 440 so costs are realtivle the same.

Given these factors, I am trying to determine if the e92 m3 will thrill me more and offer more driving satisfaction than the 440i. I drove an e92 m3 quite some time ago and cant remember really how similar it is to my 440i. I am hoping someone who has recently driven both can chime in here. I am thinking a supercharged e92 m3 would make it all worthwhile but do question its ability to be a reliable daily driver, would like to get some thoughts on this as well.

Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks

[Flying Ace]

A thinly veiled M3 vs 335 debate, circa 2017. The answer is still M3.

Next question!

[i_love_cars]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

A thinly veiled M3 vs 335 debate, circa 2017. The answer is still M3.

Next question!

/thread

[TWiTCHY]

Went from an F82 to an E92 M3 and have never regretted my decision. Yes, it's slower, but there's more of a personality to the S65. I'd imagine coming from a 440i would be similar to my experience stepping down a generation.

[6ixSpd]

Could be a 490 for all I care, there's no way I'd take a pedestrian commuter 4 coupe over a proper bespoke engineered M car. I'd even take an E39 M5 over the 440, or even an E46 M3.

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

A thinly veiled M3 vs 335 debate, circa 2017. The answer is still M3.

Next question!

YUP.

PS. Next question better not be about rod bearings...

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by the6M3

Could be a 490 for all I care, there's no way I'd take a pedestrian commuter 4 coupe over a proper bespoke engineered M car. I'd even take an E39 M5 over the 440, or even an E46 M3.



YUP.

PS. Next question better not be about rod bearings...

yep, there's a lot of cars that's just straight line fast. But as we all know, it's not about living life a quarter mile at a time. Otherwise, we'll all be driving Cameros.

OP sounds like he's looking for a sharper a bit more raw experience. The E90 M3 will be his only option. He can consider the new M2 or the older 1M or even a E46 M3 if he wants less weight and more raw, but the E9X M3 is the best compromise and return for the $$.

I think the E9X M3 is a pretty comfy DD. With EDC on soft and OEM 18 donuts, it's pretty easy going.

Here's another factor that should push OP to the M3...the depreciation rates even on the 2012s are much slower than a brand new $50k 440i, with his options as pictured, I'm betting he has a $55k car, which is insane for what you don't get, considering a 2013 M3 can be had for $45k or less.

My E90 M3 has depreciated $2k a year in recent years. Depreciation only, it's cost me something like $170 a month since owning it in 2010 (preowned 2008 model). It's rare you can go to a faster/better car within the same brand and eat less in depreciation.

Frankly, I would have never even bought (or leased or financed) a brand new 440i...non M's all depreciate like a rock. Just compare the price of a loaded 2013 335is (440 equivalent back then) and a 2013 M3 stripper....they had the same MSRP when new. The 335is is around $30k today, and the M3 is around $40k. Hell, my 08 M3 is worth the same as a 2013 335is and I have more miles...

[6ixSpd]

^I agree with everything you've said. Buying/leasing/financing a new non-M is a hysterically bad financial decision but that's besides the point.

OP you'd sound like you're missing a proper driving experience. None of the current non-Ms will provide that. Not one. Which is a shame because in previous generations, a non-M car still gave you a fun driving experience that was the heart of every BMW ever made. Not anymore.

I see you're from Alberta. I recall Calgary BMW has a stunning CPO 2013 E92 M3 Comp Pkg. with 6spd and all options except extended leather and DCT. It's Mineral White on Fox Red with some Dinan goodies. I'd jump on that if I were you.

[loveskiing]

I'd definitely go for the 440i...faster, meaner and will blow the doors off these POS M cars. Plus you get new technology vs. old fashioned yesteryear stuff that was discontinued. Also, who wants to have to keep changing rod bearings, throttle actuators, and all the other parts of the M car that need annual replacing?

[mwalter14]

Sorry to everyone I annoyed by creating a thread- tried to search but couldn't find anything pertaining to my specific situation with a 440.

Thanks for the insights though. I owned an e46 M3 but found it to be rather uncomfortable for the long haul trips as the seats dindnt do it for me. Was a fun car but also wished it felt a little more quick,. M2 is not in play as I find the cabin also a little too cramped.

To the above post ^ that car JUST got sold. I was actually going to go for it! I am looking at a 13' e92 coupe in vancouver with 55k kms for 55k Canadian. Not a great price but seems really clean. Its from a used calgary dealer, which I tend not to trust, but if the numbers are good will head out there and check it out.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by loveskiing

I'd definitely go for the 440i...faster, meaner and will blow the doors off these POS M cars. Plus you get new technology vs. old fashioned yesteryear stuff that was discontinued. Also, who wants to have to keep changing rod bearings, throttle actuators, and all the other parts of the M car that need annual replacing?

other than rod bearings, throttle actuators what else needs annual replacement?

Oil and filter? Well that blows the budget.
NBT idrive so you can drive the car through the controller knob?

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by mwalter14

To the above post ^ that car JUST got sold. I was actually going to go for it! I am looking at a 13' e92 coupe in vancouver with 55k kms for 55k Canadian. Not a great price but seems really clean. Its from a used calgary dealer, which I tend not to trust, but if the numbers are good will head out there and check it out.

I'm surprised it even lasted that long. When I first saw the ad I nearly jumped out of my skin as MW on FR was my ideal combo - outside of Individual; hence why I am content with my Alpine on FR Extended. But then the Calgary car had 2x the mileage of my mine and no extended leather so I stayed put. Seeing the prices of the '12s and '13s with 50K km+ makes me so happy about purchasing mine with only 24K km lol.

There's a Laguna Seca Blue on Platinum Silver Extended and DCT for sale here in Toronto. 2010 with 100k kms, asking $46k. A bit overpriced in my opinion, even with the Individual colour.

[macdude357]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

yep, there's a lot of cars that's just straight line fast. But as we all know, it's not about living life a quarter mile at a time. Otherwise, we'll all be driving Cameros.

OP sounds like he's looking for a sharper a bit more raw experience. The E90 M3 will be his only option. He can consider the new M2 or the older 1M or even a E46 M3 if he wants less weight and more raw, but the E9X M3 is the best compromise and return for the $$.

I think the E9X M3 is a pretty comfy DD. With EDC on soft and OEM 18 donuts, it's pretty easy going.

Here's another factor that should push OP to the M3...the depreciation rates even on the 2012s are much slower than a brand new $50k 440i, with his options as pictured, I'm betting he has a $55k car, which is insane for what you don't get, considering a 2013 M3 can be had for $45k or less.

My E90 M3 has depreciated $2k a year in recent years. Depreciation only, it's cost me something like $170 a month since owning it in 2010 (preowned 2008 model). It's rare you can go to a faster/better car within the same brand and eat less in depreciation.

Frankly, I would have never even bought (or leased or financed) a brand new 440i...non M's all depreciate like a rock. Just compare the price of a loaded 2013 335is (440 equivalent back then) and a 2013 M3 stripper....they had the same MSRP when new. The 335is is around $30k today, and the M3 is around $40k. Hell, my 08 M3 is worth the same as a 2013 335is and I have more miles...

Depreciation might be lower but everything else will be higher. Gas, Insurance. Plan on at least 7-8k for maintenance over the next 5 years (tires, brakes, oil changes, 60k service) and that's if nothing breaks. Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally worth it. Just want to be up front about the costs of owning this car though.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by macdude357

Depreciation might be lower but everything else will be higher. Gas, Insurance. Plan on at least 7-8k for maintenance over the next 5 years (tires, brakes, oil changes, 60k service) and that's if nothing breaks. Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally worth it. Just want to be up front about the costs of owning this car though.

agreed, at one point, depreciation won't be the highest monthly cost of ownership on this car.

Point in reference, I just did a complete OE brake replacement on the M3 last year. I believe it was $1500 of parts, fluids and labor (also did the rear diff fluid). This is using online vendors + indie. Would have been $3k-$4k at dealer.

[opihi5]

Originally Posted by the6M3

Could be a 490 for all I care, there's no way I'd take a pedestrian commuter 4 coupe over a proper bespoke engineered M car. I'd even take an E39 M5 over the 440, or even an E46 M3.



YUP.

PS. Next question better not be about rod bearings...

Yeah...New bmw's feel totally dead and too smooth. Even the new m's dont feel as raw as they used to. I would much rather take an e46/e92 m3 over new new m's.
IMO straight line speed may be fun, but id rather have a raw race deprived car than a 4 series. This is totally personal preference and i would reccomend not asking others about what car YOU should get.
GL

[mwalter14]

Originally Posted by opihi5

Yeah...New bmw's feel totally dead and too smooth. Even the new m's dont feel as raw as they used to. I would much rather take an e46/e92 m3 over new new m's.
IMO straight line speed may be fun, but id rather have a raw race deprived car than a 4 series. This is totally personal preference and i would reccomend not asking others about what car YOU should get.
GL

I concur about your statement about being 'too smooth', my car certainly feels that way.
I am not really asking what I SHOULD get, I am more trying to gather insights on to how different the e92 m3 is dynamically from a f32 440i. I would like to be sure its more than just an incremental improvement before mkaing the switch. Will lose a chunk to depreciation durng the trade-in but would rather be happier and just cut losses. It sounds like e92 is still a fun car to drive despite its straight line limitations. Would like to hear from anyone who has owned both though.

[Nihilation]

If you enjoy the 440i's engine and amenities, go to a well known BMW specialist and request:

1. Get all those soft bushings swapped out. This will help transfer the road to your ass and fingers.
2. Install lower control arm monoball kit. This will help reduce the play under hard braking and also increase feedback through the steering.
3. Install quality dampers or matched spring and damper combo, maybe coilovers.
4. Get an aggressive street alignment.

That should really liven up the car for less than $5k and provide much better driver feedback. If you don't like it, reinstall the stock suspension, sell the aftermarket parts and buy an M car.

[loveskiing]

You can put lipstick on a pig, or work on turning a sows ear into a silk purse...but there's only one e9x m3

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

agreed, at one point, depreciation won't be the highest monthly cost of ownership on this car.

Point in reference, I just did a complete OE brake replacement on the M3 last year. I believe it was $1500 of parts, fluids and labor (also did the rear diff fluid). This is using online vendors + indie. Would have been $3k-$4k at dealer.

7 months into used E90 ownership

Maintenance (mandatory)
- oil change: $125
- a/c blower paralysis: $5 DIY
- all brake pads + brake sensors: $350 DIY
- new rear tires (had flat): $600


Preventive/Performance (Optional)
- rod bearings + motor mounts + oil gasket + labor at indie: $2000
- DCT GTS update: $110
- air intake filter upgrade: $90
- OEM DME Update + Stage 1 ECU tune w/cable & software: $620

[Madvillain]

Originally Posted by macdude357

Depreciation might be lower but everything else will be higher. Gas, Insurance. Plan on at least 7-8k for maintenance over the next 5 years (tires, brakes, oil changes, 60k service) and that's if nothing breaks. Don't get me wrong, I think it's totally worth it. Just want to be up front about the costs of owning this car though.

if you do the work yourself and dont abuse the car too much you wont have to do a dam thing other than simple services the car requires like any other 3 series.

[Denk]

I've test driven the 440i and 340i, nice B58 engine but the chassis/suspension and steering were blah. Not enthusiast cars IMHO. The e9x is a very satisfying car, it's got that overall package that'll scratch that itch. If you decide on the e92, please spend some time test driving the car. My last few e92's I purchased used had some quirks. It can be an expensive car to maintain.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

Preventive/Performance (Optional)
- rod bearings + motor mounts + oil gasket + labor at indie: $2000

That's a pretty low estimate, unless for OEM bearings and OEM rod bolts.

[velociti]

OP, I went from an E46 M3 to an N55 135i in 2013 because I didn't want to deal with the former's cracked rear subframe. I knew I'd dearly miss the driving dynamics that you're alluding to, but figured I could get the suspension where I wanted it and also throw a tune on it and have a killer daily. I wound up doing rear subframe bushings, lower control arm bushings, E93 M3 front sway, and Bilstein shocks with matched Eibach springs. In my opinion, the stock 135i felt like garbage: underdamped, unstable rear end over uneven pavement, rode hard thanks to the runflat tires, and vague steering thanks to soft bushings everywhere. My modifications brought the car alive, but at the end of the day it just wasn't as precise and organic feeling as a true M. I just picked up another forum member's E90 M3, and while I don't love the size of it -- I like small cars and would get an M2 if I didn't need the practicality -- to my mind it's the ultimate daily with the EDC. At full comfort, it's stupid comfortable and easy to drive, but still engaging. And if I want to get after it, I hit the M button and the steering and throttle liven up and the dampers firm up. Plus the instant throttle response and the motor you can wind out...

I really miss the N55. It sounded great, and having massive torque down low was fun, to saying nothing of having passing power in pretty much any gear at any RPM. I imagine the B58 is similar. Getting back in a naturally aspirated car was a bit weird. I still need to put some mileage on it, but I think you'll like what you find if you make the jump. It's a MUCH more engaging platform than the run-of-the-mill F-series but won't punish you like the E46 M3. Ultimate daily, man. They don't make them like this any longer.