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      10-21-2020, 09:20 AM   #1
Alfisti
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Struggling to pull the trigger on an expensive car

I have a deal in principle (PPI scheduled) on a 991 "S". Very decent price for the spec and condition. Been shopping for 2 years, was hoping for a 997 GTS but prices are stupid.

I am really struggling here, for half the price I could get myself a 2015 Mustang GT, add $5K or so to customise the look a little (tastefully) and sharpen the handling and drive it daily instead of buying a car for twice the price and still having the expense of my DD (insurance, repairs etc).

It's also, I dunno, A PANDEMIC, who knows where the economy goes or where my job goes or if the wife slows down again?

I'm 44, living in a dull city half way across the world, need something to brighten my outlook but even that plays into it as I won't be able to drive the 911 for 6 solid months dammit.

Second guessing myself here, been churning on it a few days now. You guys ever been in a similar situation and did you blink or push through?

Last edited by Alfisti; 10-21-2020 at 09:35 AM..
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      10-21-2020, 09:31 AM   #2
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.....but would that Mustang make your heart sing? When you hop out of it and walk towards your destination, would it make you look back at it and grin? I'd never advise another person to take on mountains of debt for a grin....but if your in a position to make the Porsche purchase without hurting the old version of yourself that's coming I vote do it! We only get 1 go around and if you buy it right and negotiate shrewdly odds are good it's something you can undo with minimal pain should the need arise! Just post pics if you decide to get it!
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      10-21-2020, 10:23 AM   #3
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So has the Porsche depreciated to the point of bottoming out? All new cars depreciate, but Porsche seems to take a dip and then stabilize and in some cases they appreciate or at least hold value. That may be a factor to consider depending on how long you intend to keep the car. Mustang is a great car if that's your thing, I looked at the GT 350 when I bought my Porsche, and it would have been a lot of fun but I have to agree with fgpalmer71 what makes your heart sing, will you still be in love with the Mustang in a year and will you be thinking that you should have bought the Porsche.
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      10-21-2020, 10:25 AM   #4
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No 911 prices are rising almost across the board other than very recent models. That's one reason I am tempted to bite as my price is pretty good given the options AND CPO warranty for 20 months.
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      10-21-2020, 10:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I have a deal in principle (PPI scheduled) on a 991 "S". Very decent price for the spec and condition. Been shopping for 2 years, was hoping for a 997 GTS but prices are stupid.

I am really struggling here, for half the price I could get myself a 2015 Mustang GT, add $5K or so to customise the look a little (tastefully) and sharpen the handling and drive it daily instead of buying a car for twice the price and still having the expense of my DD (insurance, repairs etc).

It's also, I dunno, A PANDEMIC, who knows where the economy goes or where my job goes or if the wife slows down again?

I'm 44, living in a dull city half way across the world, need something to brighten my outlook but even that plays into it as I won't be able to drive the 911 for 6 solid months dammit.

Second guessing myself here, been churning on it a few days now. You guys ever been in a similar situation and did you blink or push through?
I'm literally in the same mindframe as you, but I'm 10 years younger

My dream car/end goal has always been a Porsche, and my dream Porsches are the 981 Spyder or 997/991.2 GT3. Not counting the .2 GT3, we're talking $80k minimum, which is well out of my reach at the moment considering the most expensive car I've ever bought was my used E92 M3 at $40k.

I start questioning whether I'd enjoy a GT3 or Spyder TWICE as much as my E92 M3? I really don't think so. If anything, I prefer to have multiple cars and have difference experiences (6 vs 8 cylinder, roadster vs coupe, maybe NA vs turbocharged) than just have 1 awesome car, that will most likely be driven once or twice a week max. Not to mention, how comfortable will I be driving such an expensive car? I'm already super careful with my well used E92 M3 that's probably worth 1/4 of that right now.

On top of that, I think 2020 has also brought some perspective in my life. Things are fragile. I'm at the point where I'd rather look at other things than just cars. because at the end of the day, they can really act like anchor boats.

P.S. I sure do miss traveling.
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      10-21-2020, 10:33 AM   #6
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Yeah that's crossed my mind too, I can DD a big stonking V8 and not be so concerned about it as I would a 911 at twice the price. But then yeah, who doesn't want something a bit sexier, tossable and special. The absolutely STUBBORN way 911's hold value also makes you think you can get in and out at minimal exposure, this particular car was originally a US market car so in theory could sell it to the USA at a 1.33 exchange.

Funny the E92 M3 is what i would call my sensible choice. A Mustang is one thing but the M3 has four proper seats etc and a revvy V8 but running costs seem insane and i'd always be worried she is gonna throw a rod. Also so many of them have GHASTLY interiors, just brutal.

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      10-21-2020, 11:13 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I'm literally in the same mindframe as you, but I'm 10 years younger

My dream car/end goal has always been a Porsche, and my dream Porsches are the 981 Spyder or 997/991.2 GT3. Not counting the .2 GT3, we're talking $80k minimum, which is well out of my reach at the moment considering the most expensive car I've ever bought was my used E92 M3 at $40k.

I start questioning whether I'd enjoy a GT3 or Spyder TWICE as much as my E92 M3? I really don't think so. If anything, I prefer to have multiple cars and have difference experiences (6 vs 8 cylinder, roadster vs coupe, maybe NA vs turbocharged) than just have 1 awesome car, that will most likely be driven once or twice a week max. Not to mention, how comfortable will I be driving such an expensive car? I'm already super careful with my well used E92 M3 that's probably worth 1/4 of that right now.

On top of that, I think 2020 has also brought some perspective in my life. Things are fragile. I'm at the point where I'd rather look at other things than just cars. because at the end of the day, they can really act like anchor boats.

P.S. I sure do miss traveling.

If your anything like me the monetary value of the car in question really means nothing in terms of how I treat it. I treat my $8k 335i (I think I stole the thing, 78k with new turbos done @ 57k, new water pump and thermostat, book says it's worth close to 12k) as well, if not better then my $45k Genesis sedan was treated. I think when your an official motor head you treat the thousand $ car as well as the 100k car. Maybe that's just me though.

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      10-21-2020, 11:18 AM   #8
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Don't think about the money, think about how it makes you feel.

And if that feeling comes back to money, get the Mustang and put a blower on it.
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      10-21-2020, 11:23 AM   #9
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No, whole point of this is to go against the EV/turbo grain. NA all the way
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      10-21-2020, 12:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Yeah that's crossed my mind too, I can DD a big stonking V8 and not be so concerned about it as I would a 911 at twice the price. But then yeah, who doesn't want something a bit sexier, tossable and special. The absolutely STUBBORN way 911's hold value also makes you think you can get in and out at minimal exposure, this particular car was originally a US market car so in theory could sell it to the USA at a 1.33 exchange.

Funny the E92 M3 is what i would call my sensible choice. A Mustang is one thing but the M3 has four proper seats etc and a revvy V8 but running costs seem insane and i'd always be worried she is gonna throw a rod. Also so many of them have GHASTLY interiors, just brutal.
What you say about these cars holding their value very much works against me, because I've got a nasty habit of holding on to my cars for good. So if I'm looking at a Porsche, it's very likely that the price I pay will be what it costs if that makes sense.

As for the E9x M3, it's not as bad as you think. $2k should take care of the rod bearings and that's about all they really need (throttle actuators are not a giant deal IMO). I have really no problem wiht my interior, if anything it's super well built compared to my other M's, and mine doesn't even have the full leather. I assure you it's not just half the car the 911.1 the price might suggest
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      10-21-2020, 12:53 PM   #11
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By ghastly I mean these brutal reds. Other issue I have is I want a convertible and the hard top is just a terrible idea. So heavy and sucks up so much space. Question have you the Auto? Is it any good or a mess?
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      10-21-2020, 12:56 PM   #12
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@Alfisti what is the nature of your objection to purchase, ďstruggleĒ as you say?

Price seems to be one point, ref the comparison to the Mustangís lower price. Income security appears to be another relative to the comments on pandemic and wifeís income. These give the impression of financial concerns.

If you donít have the means to buy the car, donít do it.

If your longer term financial needs are in good order, for example retirement savings, debt (credit card/mortgage) and education expense, you might consider buying it.

And, you only live once, and you canít take it (money) with you.
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      10-21-2020, 01:07 PM   #13
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I got the 2SS 1LE because it seemed to match all the requirements I wanted. Manual-only, the right-sized rubber for the power, heated/cooled seats and steering wheel, a few aids like blind spot detection and rear cross-traffic, and all of that performance. I considered a 911 and some other cars like GT350, etc., but this did it for me. My point is make sure what you want is what you want. If it is, then find a way to get it. I don't lust after a 911, but I wouldn't kick it out of bed either. I'm not even thinking about a "next car" really, but a Cayman GTS is more attractive to me than a 911 these days.
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      10-21-2020, 01:15 PM   #14
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We have the money, when i say that I mean we can definitely afford it but this is not spare change. I also have an inheritance coming (RIP old man) which will cover this and then some but I was shopping well before my dad even got sick.

You ask a good question. a) it's just a lot of money, period, I come from "nothing", as in pay check to pay check as a kid so I baulk at big spending that is not a house.

b) the cost of a third car, insurance and repairs adds about what, $3K year ongoing vs a compromise car i DD.

c) just the hassle of a 3rd car, wife likely get annoyed and need to winter store at father in law's or pay for storage (one garage and wife wants hers in the garage in winter)

d) Pandemic hassle, sanitising it etc and wife will be massively freaked out as we have locked down hard here

e) I like the car, really do but I kinda wanted an alcantara interior (hence 997 GTS) but they've gotten stupid expensive for what you can argue is a 15 year old car that performs worse than a 991 S. Still, whilst this thing is a bright colour and optioned 20 inch wheels with factory spacers, it still looks a tad GT for me. Just a tad mind you. Maybe wondering if i just wait for a sporty looking 997.2 "S" but the price won't be much different, MAY save 5 to 10K.

f) Do i want the hassle of a nice car? Always worried about it? Get a 2015 to 17 stang, maybe add after market wheels, do a little suspension work, add a GT350 front end and DD it. Pay half the cost of the 911 and save on the running costs of a 3rd and have less hassle. But it's not special is it.
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      10-21-2020, 01:32 PM   #15
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That's the trade off you need to ask yourself.. is it worth the added stress to own it? I understand garage queening cars but at the same time I'd rather enjoy something fully.
I'd do the Porsche and if it turns out a burden, resell it later, you surely wouldn't lose too much.
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      10-21-2020, 01:41 PM   #16
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LOL been asking myself that for 2 years and now something has shown up, right colours (though not my favourite), well optioned (Sport +, Exhaust, wheels etc) and CPO and a good deal ......... I am choking on the decision.
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      10-21-2020, 02:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
We have the money, when i say that I mean we can definitely afford it but this is not spare change. I also have an inheritance coming (RIP old man) which will cover this and then some but I was shopping well before my dad even got sick.

You ask a good question. a) it's just a lot of money, period, I come from "nothing", as in pay check to pay check as a kid so I baulk at big spending that is not a house.

b) the cost of a third car, insurance and repairs adds about what, $3K year ongoing vs a compromise car i DD.

c) just the hassle of a 3rd car, wife likely get annoyed and need to winter store at father in law's or pay for storage (one garage and wife wants hers in the garage in winter)

d) Pandemic hassle, sanitising it etc and wife will be massively freaked out as we have locked down hard here

e) I like the car, really do but I kinda wanted an alcantara interior (hence 997 GTS) but they've gotten stupid expensive for what you can argue is a 15 year old car that performs worse than a 991 S. Still, whilst this thing is a bright colour and optioned 20 inch wheels with factory spacers, it still looks a tad GT for me. Just a tad mind you. Maybe wondering if i just wait for a sporty looking 997.2 "S" but the price won't be much different, MAY save 5 to 10K.

f) Do i want the hassle of a nice car? Always worried about it? Get a 2015 to 17 stang, maybe add after market wheels, do a little suspension work, add a GT350 front end and DD it. Pay half the cost of the 911 and save on the running costs of a 3rd and have less hassle. But it's not special is it.
I think if you're coming up with more negatives than positives, is it worth it?

Also, why not something in between a 991 and Mustang... ie a GT350
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      10-21-2020, 03:31 PM   #18
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Sounds like you are already compromising with the 991 as what you really want is a 997. My personal view on Porsche has always been that they make amazing overpriced cars. I know multiple people that bought a ďcheapĒ used Porsche only to regret that decision within a year due to insane maintenance and repair costs.

Same as you I grew up in a paycheck to paycheck household and while I do OK now I still always look at the value my money is buying. Iím not at a point where money is no object. On the other hand Iím nearing half a century on this planet and realize I wonít live forever. So enjoying things now while I still can while not being financially reckless is definitely a thing.

To that end I bought a used V8 F-Type convertible and enjoying the heck out of it. I care about all my cars and I get equally upset when I find a door ding on my wifeís Honda CRV as I would on my FType. If I had disposable income to afford a car I wanted and it would bring happiness to my life in this miserable year Iíd go for it. Life is short. Enjoy every day like itís your last.
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      10-21-2020, 05:20 PM   #19
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as others said. life is short. you don't want to eventually get your supercar at 50-60+ years old with back problems looking like a dummy trying to get out of the carbon buckets or complaining about a heavy clutch making your knee hurt

I mean realistically a 997 GTS is not going to lose a ton of value right ? just think of it as 'moving money' rather than 'losing it'. You will get a large chunk of it back on sale. .

you definitely get diminishing returns as you move up in car prices. Is a 458 3x the car my modded GTR was ? not really imo. But i have no regrets. Owning a supercar was definitely a bucket list item for me. The sounds, the nostalgia, seeing the plaque showing all of the companies F1 victories, the smell inside, the quirks, seeing people drop their jaws.

I probably wont get one again though. Especially a modern one that's turbo+DCT as they have no appeal to me. i find the 991.2 GT3 6 speed more appealing than a Ferrari f8 or 720s.

insurance isn't too bad if you go with specialty insurance like Grundy / Hagerty.
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      10-21-2020, 05:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
We have the money, when i say that I mean we can definitely afford it but this is not spare change. I also have an inheritance coming (RIP old man) which will cover this and then some but I was shopping well before my dad even got sick.

You ask a good question. a) it's just a lot of money, period, I come from "nothing", as in pay check to pay check as a kid so I baulk at big spending that is not a house.

b) the cost of a third car, insurance and repairs adds about what, $3K year ongoing vs a compromise car i DD.

c) just the hassle of a 3rd car, wife likely get annoyed and need to winter store at father in law's or pay for storage (one garage and wife wants hers in the garage in winter)

d) Pandemic hassle, sanitising it etc and wife will be massively freaked out as we have locked down hard here

e) I like the car, really do but I kinda wanted an alcantara interior (hence 997 GTS) but they've gotten stupid expensive for what you can argue is a 15 year old car that performs worse than a 991 S. Still, whilst this thing is a bright colour and optioned 20 inch wheels with factory spacers, it still looks a tad GT for me. Just a tad mind you. Maybe wondering if i just wait for a sporty looking 997.2 "S" but the price won't be much different, MAY save 5 to 10K.

f) Do i want the hassle of a nice car? Always worried about it? Get a 2015 to 17 stang, maybe add after market wheels, do a little suspension work, add a GT350 front end and DD it. Pay half the cost of the 911 and save on the running costs of a 3rd and have less hassle. But it's not special is it.
Iím sorry to hear of your loss.

Wait a year. It doesnít seem like the right thing at the right time.
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      10-21-2020, 05:41 PM   #21
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A few years ago I was looking seriously at a CPO M3. After some hand wringing I just didn't feel comfortable spending that much for a used car so I bought a brand new 2016 Mustang GT performance pack and customized it.

I won't say I didn't really enjoy the Mustang the four years I owned it however it was certainly not an M3.
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      10-21-2020, 05:44 PM   #22
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I agree with the ‘life is short’ comments too, and that’s how I’ve lived my life for the most part. But the rest of this year and next year are going to be unprecedented times. It all depends on how much of a risk you think your jobs are under, and/or your ability to weather unexpected events and expenses. As well as your level of personal risk tolerance.

I’m deferring a planned car purchase myself, especially since i don’t really drive the ones i have these days.
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