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      09-29-2020, 09:01 PM   #89
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I have the somewhat unique opportunity to occasionally switch back and forth between my wife's 128i Sport Auto, and my 128i M-sport 6MT. They are VERY different cars. I can't think of any reason I would want the auto over the manual for myself.

To be fair, my wife has driven a BMW stick-shift since about 1979 until recently due to an arthritic left knee.
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      10-02-2020, 01:06 PM   #90
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When I had manual transmission, I usually end up stuck in traffic or getting stuck on I-95 in DC for some reason. So, NO I don't miss it. I do enjoy shifting a manual transmission while driving an open top vehicle on country roads. But in general, the 8 speed auto in my F32 does a lot better job shifting than I could.
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      10-02-2020, 05:07 PM   #91
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I do not miss it because I’ll never be without one. My family has been instructed to bury me with my shift knob
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      10-03-2020, 03:38 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
I do not miss it because I’ll never be without one. My family has been instructed to bury me with my shift knob
I have the shift knob from one of my Pintos on my car lift (for the locks mechanism)
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      10-03-2020, 05:04 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
Driving in traffic with manuals was never an issue with me, but it makes sense now in your case. You bought MT for economic reasons and not because you preferred it for better road connection, driver feel/experience, more fun, etc. In your case, since cost is no longer a factor, then it's understandable you'd switch to automatics.

But for others like me who enjoy the driving engagement of manuals (and not concerned with being slower than automatics ~0.5s in 0-60), even in traffic, over the numbing feel of automatics, we will keep buying manuals until there's no other choice.
No, no, your conclusion is wrong.

Yes, MT was the norm in the UK (and still is to a degree), but AT wasn't good in those days, particularly coupled to smaller output engines.

I chose to drive MT in my own vehicles. I did drive AT (was in the trade for a period) and chose MT primarily due to the driving experience.

I come from the time of driving 'crash box' MT, so no issues with driving skills in a decent MT.

The whole sales balance has changed with improved AT and particularly in larger output engines, even in the UK. Users will pay more for AT.

UK having many diesel models didn't help, 3.0d, (even the latest generation 2.0d) work best with an AT, it's as simple as that.

To the point, sales of MT in many models fell off a cliff. Therefore the option for MT has been dropped in many decent engine models.

Even the F10 M5 didn't come as MT in the UK, demand so low in the higher end models.
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      10-03-2020, 08:55 PM   #94
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I'm glad I have a choice of cars. For pleasure driving its great. Especially when you get something with really short gears so there is a lot of shifting involved. For the day to day life, which is 80% of the driving I do, I definitely like having an auto. I don't know if at this point if I had to only have 1 or 2 cars if I could do manuals in them. I like having the option, but as I get older I prefer it strictly for pleasure and the rest of the time I'll take an auto!
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      10-05-2020, 02:54 AM   #95
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Yes and no, sometimes shifting can be tiring
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      10-05-2020, 04:44 AM   #96
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Yes and no, sometimes shifting can be tiring
In heavy traffic, I agree but it is fun driving a manual on twisty country roads
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      10-05-2020, 05:26 AM   #97
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In heavy traffic, I agree but it is fun driving a manual on twisty country roads
“Sometimes”
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      10-05-2020, 05:50 AM   #98
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manual is fun.. driving an automatic is so easy, sometimes you get sleepy when you have nothing to do
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      10-09-2020, 04:19 AM   #99
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I drive my 67 Vette regularly, and while the freshly rebuilt Muncie 4-speed has its moments of joy and nostalgia, a good auto would be faster, smoother, and frankly a better all around ride. That’s why more and more vintage rides are being converted to restomods and commanding exponentially more money than many original or restored classic cars.

For a modern daily driver... the MT is a dinosaur and soon to be just as extinct.
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      10-09-2020, 05:41 AM   #100
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I drive my 67 Vette regularly, and while the freshly rebuilt Muncie 4-speed has its moments of joy and nostalgia, a good auto would be faster, smoother, and frankly a better all around ride. That’s why more and more vintage rides are being converted to restomods and commanding exponentially more money than many original or restored classic cars.

For a modern daily driver... the MT is a dinosaur and soon to be just as extinct.
Sounds to me like you should trade up to a C8 since you want something “faster, smoother, and a frankly all around better ride”. Those moments of nostalgia and joy you mentioned in your 67 would be the sole reason to own and drive a 53 year old car regularly.

The reason people do restomods for plenty of reasons, not just because they hate their 4 speeds lol. They want better performance... drum brakes suck, new fuel injected engines make better power, modern suspension handles and rides better, new parts are more reliable, etc. It’s pretty clear restomods are not just born because people want to make the car an automatic. Maybe you noticed there’s plenty of resto mods with modern 6 speeds.

If your baseline is a 53 year old manual then of course it’s not great. The only way to make it fair you should be comparing that to a 53 year old 3 speed automatic. I don’t see anyone loving those! Maybe we should compare a modern flat screen to an old black and white TV too lol

I drove a cayman GT4 last year and it was amazing as a manual. Of course it wasn’t 53 year old iron.
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      10-09-2020, 08:06 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Sounds to me like you should trade up to a C8 since you want something “faster, smoother, and a frankly all around better ride”. Those moments of nostalgia and joy you mentioned in your 67 would be the sole reason to own and drive a 53 year old car regularly.

The reason people do restomods for plenty of reasons, not just because they hate their 4 speeds lol. They want better performance... drum brakes suck, new fuel injected engines make better power, modern suspension handles and rides better, new parts are more reliable, etc. It’s pretty clear restomods are not just born because people want to make the car an automatic. Maybe you noticed there’s plenty of resto mods with modern 6 speeds.

If your baseline is a 53 year old manual then of course it’s not great. The only way to make it fair you should be comparing that to a 53 year old 3 speed automatic. I don’t see anyone loving those! Maybe we should compare a modern flat screen to an old black and white TV too lol

I drove a cayman GT4 last year and it was amazing as a manual. Of course it wasn’t 53 year old iron.
I guess I wasn’t clear with my point. Not making a real comparison, just an observation. I love my 53 year 3 month and 4 day old car, even more than my modern ones. And, I like the nostalgia, as do thousands of other vintage car enthusiasts, especially those who actually and seriously race vintage cars of all types.

That said, if you buy a car only because you enjoy the MT, That’s cool, but you may miss other aspects of the hobby or the adventure. Sure, shifting can be fun, sometimes not as much so. Performance wise, many of the autos and DCTs we have today are Faster and far superior to the MT.

So, enjoy the MT, but they’ll most likely only be available new for a handful of more years, which means the 75 percent of BMW drivers who lease their cars will be adapting to paddle shifting sooner than later, or also buying a somewhat vintage weekend car.
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      10-09-2020, 08:12 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Sounds to me like you should trade up to a C8 since you want something “faster, smoother, and a frankly all around better ride”. Those moments of nostalgia and joy you mentioned in your 67 would be the sole reason to own and drive a 53 year old car regularly.

The reason people do restomods for plenty of reasons, not just because they hate their 4 speeds lol. They want better performance... drum brakes suck, new fuel injected engines make better power, modern suspension handles and rides better, new parts are more reliable, etc. It’s pretty clear restomods are not just born because people want to make the car an automatic. Maybe you noticed there’s plenty of resto mods with modern 6 speeds.

If your baseline is a 53 year old manual then of course it’s not great. The only way to make it fair you should be comparing that to a 53 year old 3 speed automatic. I don’t see anyone loving those! Maybe we should compare a modern flat screen to an old black and white TV too lol

I drove a cayman GT4 last year and it was amazing as a manual. Of course it wasn’t 53 year old iron.
I guess I wasn’t clear with my point. Not making a real comparison, just an observation. I love my 53 year 3 month and 4 day old car, even more than my modern ones. It has 400 rowdy hp and disc brakes. And, I like the nostalgia, as do thousands of other vintage car enthusiasts, especially those who actually, and seriously, race vintage cars of all types.

That said, if you buy a car only because you enjoy the MT, that’s cool, but you may miss other aspects of the adventure. Sure, shifting can be fun, but sometimes just not as much so. Performance wise, many of the autos and DCTs we have today are faster and far superior to the MT, especially in the wrong hands.

So, enjoy the MT, but they’ll most likely only be available new for a handful of more years, which means the MT lovers among the 75 percent of BMW drivers who lease their cars will be adapting to paddle shifting sooner than later, or also buying a somewhat vintage weekend car.
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      10-09-2020, 10:45 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteGuy View Post
So, enjoy the MT, but they’ll most likely only be available new for a handful of more years, which means the MT lovers among the 75 percent of BMW drivers who lease their cars will be adapting to paddle shifting sooner than later, or also buying a somewhat vintage weekend car.
The same could be said for ICE engines... Enjoy them while you can!
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      10-09-2020, 09:30 PM   #104
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My M2 is my first DCT M. Before I always had a manual. With the DCT being faster and getting better mileage, I don’t miss my manual. This is especially true in Seattle traffic.
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      10-09-2020, 10:35 PM   #105
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Yes... I miss my Saab 93... Beautiful car, that GM didn't keep. Gone Saab.
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      10-09-2020, 11:48 PM   #106
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Yes... I miss my Saab 93... Beautiful car, that GM didn't keep. Gone Saab.
loved that car
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      10-10-2020, 05:10 PM   #107
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Only reason I bought a BMW was the MT. Now I have many other reasons too, and I think MT will be available for another 10 years+

Teaching my kids, and they are like "why aren't more cars manual, this is awesome"

Good questions kids, I guess some folks grow up
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      10-11-2020, 11:10 PM   #108
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went on vacay to arizona and rented a Z4 (the n54 dct one) and 2013 R8 v10 spyder (the single clutch lambo e-gear).

around town the r8 was a bit of a mess. it lurches alot and the only way to smooth it out is to ease up on the gas during your paddle flicks. on the highway and booking it the r-tronic does ok. The Z4 had a far better trans for everything. But yeah convertibles are aimed towards 'experience' rather than performance. manual would have stepped up the experience quite a bit imo
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      10-12-2020, 11:35 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteGuy View Post
I guess I wasn’t clear with my point. Not making a real comparison, just an observation. I love my 53 year 3 month and 4 day old car, even more than my modern ones. And, I like the nostalgia, as do thousands of other vintage car enthusiasts, especially those who actually and seriously race vintage cars of all types.

That said, if you buy a car only because you enjoy the MT, That’s cool, but you may miss other aspects of the hobby or the adventure. Sure, shifting can be fun, sometimes not as much so. Performance wise, many of the autos and DCTs we have today are Faster and far superior to the MT.

So, enjoy the MT, but they’ll most likely only be available new for a handful of more years, which means the 75 percent of BMW drivers who lease their cars will be adapting to paddle shifting sooner than later, or also buying a somewhat vintage weekend car.
I know I'm repeating myself, but the manual transmission is not for me about the fun of it, but rather vehicle control. I don't care how fast a modern automatic can shift (in auto mode), it doesn't know when to shift when I want it to shift. It is a compromised situation.
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      10-12-2020, 06:14 PM   #110
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In heavy traffic, I agree but it is fun driving a manual on twisty country roads
And if I primarily drove on twisty roads, I may miss it more. But I spend 95% of my time on regular roads, and then I don't miss the manual much at all.

But really, I'm waiting on some car company or tuner to create an actual dual manual/DCT transmission....where you actually have a stick shift sitting in the console along with 3 pedals for manual driving, but then you can slide the stick into "auto" gear mode where the car will do all the shifting for you, through some kind of a DCT transmission. And the clutch pedal/engagement would be locked out and even maybe retract out of the way.

No, maybe you wouldn't be able to do it on "the fly" while the car's moving, or even at a stoplight...maybe you'd need to do something while the engine is off to "switch" the characteristic of the transmission.

Sure, it may cost $15k to $20k, and only available on super cars, but if it works well and car enthusiasts want it, they could find a way to produce it for less for a more mid-level $100k type of a car like an M3 or Porsche 911.

Wouldn't this be neat, a true manual/DCT option within the same car, almost at the "press of a button"? The best of both worlds! Hey, we can dream, right?
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