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      09-29-2020, 07:39 AM   #67
eforty6_m3
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That's precisely why my second car is an E46 M3 6MT. I get to drive manual when I WANT to. All my cars have been stick since I was about 18 (I'm 37 now). That changed when I got my Gen 1 Raptor a few years ago. So for about 17 years straight, my daily was a manual. And that included driving to just outside Boston for 4 years straight in my 2007 Civic Si sedan (100 mile round trip).
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      09-29-2020, 07:49 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
this debate crops up so often, but I often close these threads down with this simple reality:

no one ever goes from pdk/dct to manual and then back to pdk/dct because they miss it

but LOTS of people go from manual to pdk/dct then back to manual because they miss it

thread closed
Not quite.

I know folks who drive auto, go manual and back to auto, because they can't be bothered with MT in daily traffic.

I drive AT, come from an MT background, (over 35 years of MT before I bought my first AT). Now when I drive MT, (which I do enjoy to a degree), no problem getting back in auto, with little desire to return to MT as a daily driver.

A personal observation. When MT was a simple 4-speed, (perhaps with overdrive), correct gears and appropriate changes were so much more important to good driving and harmonising with less and/or limited torque spreads. 6-speed MT less so, IMO, particularly as engines have a wider mid range and are generally more flexible. 'Multiple' gear changing can become a chore, more so than the precise driving interaction of the past.
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      09-29-2020, 07:58 AM   #69
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[QUOTE=HighlandPete;26740905]Not quite.

I know folks who drive auto, go manual and back to auto, because they can't be bothered with MT in daily traffic.

I drive AT, come from an MT background, (over 35 years of MT before I bought my first AT). Now when I drive MT, (which I do enjoy to a degree), no problem getting back in auto, with little desire to return to MT as a daily driver.

Oh for sure people go back to AT, but I don't think anyone ever does that because they miss the DCT, PDK or AT driving experience.
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      09-29-2020, 08:14 AM   #70
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No missing issues since luckily I got both types but one thing I do find annoying is stepping on the ‘missing’ clutch in the DCT car after been driving the manual for a bit it has given me a small heart attack a couple of times
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      09-29-2020, 08:18 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
Oh for sure people go back to AT, but I don't think anyone ever does that because they miss the DCT, PDK or AT driving experience.
Depends what you call the "driving experience". Hours in stop-start traffic, some drivers may well 'miss' the relaxed experience of an AT, if having to do the daily drive with MT.

I'm in the UK. MT was always the 'cheapest' transmission, both as a purchase and for fuel efficiency, so we naturally bought MT. Driving AT used to be a 'novelty' for many UK users. Different world these days.
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      09-29-2020, 08:23 AM   #72
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Do I miss driving a manual? No.

Would I like to drive a manual? Sure, if the opportunity presented itself.
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      09-29-2020, 09:20 AM   #73
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IMO, if you have the means, get one of each. I personally will never not have at least 1 manual in the garage, along with at least having one convertible.

Electric/automatic is great for dailies, but I don't necessarily find them entertaining. A manual car, does not have to have be high hp to be fun.
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      09-29-2020, 09:35 AM   #74
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Different circumstances make me appreciate different transmissions. When im on a twisty open road i love driving my manual 240 but when im sitting in an hour of stop and go traffic, not so much.
That being said i usually dont think about it until i drive an automatic in traffic and realize how chill it is...
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      09-29-2020, 09:52 AM   #75
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Its funny, for years I had countless M cars all in manuals and loved them, told myself I would always buy manual. Then I drove a DCT in one of my e92M3s and since then I have never gone back. Maybe bc im getting older I dont know but I drove a manual honda s2000 someone traded in the other day for a day and it was super fun but def couldn't see myself getting back into driving one full time. Maybe if I had a weekend sports car I would consider it for that but for a DD not for me.
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      09-29-2020, 10:05 AM   #76
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I also forgot to mention this. A lot of the cars I've driven lately have automatic rev match and pretty soft clutches. I don't think they're as big of a "disadvantage" to live with in every day situations and at the track as older cars personally.

And then add cars holding brakes for you on hills and anti-stall (not sure if BMW have this now) and it's kind of cheating :P
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      09-29-2020, 11:08 AM   #77
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Best combo is to have an auto daily and manual sports car for the weekend, exactly why I love my Z4.
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      09-29-2020, 01:50 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeautyInMotionF22 View Post
Different circumstances make me appreciate different transmissions. When im on a twisty open road i love driving my manual 240 but when im sitting in an hour of stop and go traffic, not so much.
That being said i usually dont think about it until i drive an automatic in traffic and realize how chill it is...
I find having to keep your leg constantly on the brake in rush hour traffic a complete pain in the ass. I much prefer a clutch.
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      09-29-2020, 02:00 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I find having to keep your leg constantly on the brake in rush hour traffic a complete pain in the ass. I much prefer a clutch.
Have you not heard about adaptive cruise control?
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      09-29-2020, 02:04 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
IMO, if you have the means, get one of each. I personally will never not have at least 1 manual in the garage, along with at least having one convertible.

Electric/automatic is great for dailies, but I don't necessarily find them entertaining. A manual car, does not have to have be high hp to be fun.
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      09-29-2020, 02:06 PM   #81
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A few things I just want to get down for the very few people that are like me. In no way is this a knock at folks who prefer different things, that's what makes life spicy. There have been a lot of good points for and against in this thread. Please don't take offense, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

I don't mind driving a clutch in traffic. I can crawl if I need to and I love the act of shifting itself, not the idea of driving a clutch. I do hate traffic though, but that is self explanatory.

To me, buying a manual car speaks to dedication to the art of it. Meaning that when I drive, I am pushing myself to do every action required perfectly every individual time and the chasing the ability to do that all the time, which as humans, is impossible. But is that dedication to the chase of perfection.

Yes, a DCT or modern torque converter auto can do it faster and better because its a computer or such. I dont want a computer doing my work. It is common to tout how much faster these autos are but most are not experienced in wringing every once of performance out of other aspects of the car. In that regard, I would not want to gain those few split seconds and lose the third pedal while not chasing times elsewhere. Not a worthwhile trade off for me. Of course, those with HPDE+ experience need not apply!

And while I agree that it is childish to lambast anyone else over trivial things, us manual diehards must remain positive and enthusiastic since there are so few of us and the unfortunate reality is that the 98% of people who dont care about driving dictate what happens to all of us.

Either way, enjoy the drive!
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      09-29-2020, 02:11 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Have you not heard about adaptive cruise control?
Noooo... never heard of it.

Seriously, WTF does that have to do with my comment?
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      09-29-2020, 02:15 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celsdogg View Post
A few things I just want to get down for the very few people that are like me. In no way is this a knock at folks who prefer different things, that's what makes life spicy. There have been a lot of good points for and against in this thread. Please don't take offense, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

I don't mind driving a clutch in traffic. I can crawl if I need to and I love the act of shifting itself, not the idea of driving a clutch. I do hate traffic though, but that is self explanatory.

To me, buying a manual car speaks to dedication to the art of it. Meaning that when I drive, I am pushing myself to do every action required perfectly every individual time and the chasing the ability to do that all the time, which as humans, is impossible. But is that dedication to the chase of perfection.

Yes, a DCT or modern torque converter auto can do it faster and better because its a computer or such. I dont want a computer doing my work. It is common to tout how much faster these autos are but most are not experienced in wringing every once of performance out of other aspects of the car. In that regard, I would not want to gain those few split seconds and lose the third pedal while not chasing times elsewhere. Not a worthwhile trade off for me. Of course, those with HPDE+ experience need not apply!

And while I agree that it is childish to lambast anyone else over trivial things, us manual diehards must remain positive and enthusiastic since there are so few of us and the unfortunate reality is that the 98% of people who dont care about driving dictate what happens to all of us.

Either way, enjoy the drive!
Well put.

Automatic transmissions for most of the driving public are antithetical to the art of driving and the pursuit there of.
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      09-29-2020, 02:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Noooo... never heard of it.

Seriously, WTF does that have to do with my comment?

Quote:
I find having to keep your leg constantly on the brake in rush hour traffic a complete pain in the ass. I much prefer a clutch.
With ACC and an auto trans, you do not have to keep your foot on the brake in rush hour traffic. No pain in the ass. Car comes to a stop on it's own, if within the time spec, it'll move on it's own too. If not, you just tap the resume on the steering wheel. No need to keep your foot on the brake or use it, in fact, doing so kicks it offline...Your context is of course rush hour traffic.
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      09-29-2020, 04:50 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
With ACC and an auto trans, you do not have to keep your foot on the brake in rush hour traffic. No pain in the ass. Car comes to a stop on it's own, if within the time spec, it'll move on it's own too. If not, you just tap the resume on the steering wheel. No need to keep your foot on the brake or use it, in fact, doing so kicks it offline...Your context is of course rush hour traffic.
Yeah, I know what the tech is. But none of my cars have ACC. And driving a manual in heavy traffic doesn't hurt my clutch leg (or ass). So why would I buy an automatic trans car with AAC to solve a problem I don't have? That is my point. Operating a foot clutch (even in heavy traffic) is as natural to me as eating cereal from a bowl with a spoon. I don't even think about it. I just don't truly understand the difficulty of using a clutch in traffic.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 09-29-2020 at 09:20 PM..
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      09-29-2020, 06:32 PM   #86
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I actually just miss driving period, cars have mostly been parked since March...
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      09-29-2020, 06:39 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
Oh for sure people go back to AT, but I don't think anyone ever does that because they miss the DCT, PDK or AT driving experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Depends what you call the "driving experience". Hours in stop-start traffic, some drivers may well 'miss' the relaxed experience of an AT, if having to do the daily drive with MT.

I'm in the UK. MT was always the 'cheapest' transmission, both as a purchase and for fuel efficiency, so we naturally bought MT. Driving AT used to be a 'novelty' for many UK users. Different world these days.
Driving in traffic with manuals was never an issue with me, but it makes sense now in your case. You bought MT for economic reasons and not because you preferred it for better road connection, driver feel/experience, more fun, etc. In your case, since cost is no longer a factor, then it's understandable you'd switch to automatics.

But for others like me who enjoy the driving engagement of manuals (and not concerned with being slower than automatics ~0.5s in 0-60), even in traffic, over the numbing feel of automatics, we will keep buying manuals until there's no other choice.
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      09-29-2020, 07:05 PM   #88
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At the end of August 2018 I needed a new daily because I gave mine to my daughter. I wanted an M2, but the dealers just wouldn't deal on them like I thought they should at that time of year, so I stole a 2018 IS350 FSport for $38K (sticker was $52K), and got .9% financing. Unfortunately, the car was an automatic, and even though it was to be my new daily, I immediately regretted the decision. 8 months later I traded the car for a used '18 M2 6MT, and couldn't be happier.

Back when I sold cars I always told people the truth. They rarely liked it. One of those truths was; you're buying a car, not a price. Buy the right car and the price doesn't matter as much. Buy the wrong car and price tends to be everything.

I ate my own words to the tune of a $4K loss...and couldn't be happier.
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