BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-26-2020, 10:51 AM   #1
Jason
Administrator
Jason's Avatar
United_States
27216
Rep
20,402
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

There's a Movement at BMW to Develop Electric Only Platform

BIMMERPOST NEWS
There's a Movement at BMW to Develop Electric-Only Platform
57
COMMENTS

BMW works council backs electric-only platform-report

June 26, 2020

BERLIN (Reuters) - BMW (BMWG.DE) should shift course and establish a technology platform just for electric cars, moving away from developing cars that can be fitted with either electric or combustion engines, the head of the influential [BMW] works council said. [The BMW Works Council is a body elected by the workforce.]

“Only with our own e-architecture can we fully exploit the advantages of an electric vehicle,” Manfred Schoch told Der Spiegel magazine.

Schoch said a dedicated electric platform is needed if the German luxury carmaker is not to be overtaken by competitors from California - like electric car company Tesla (TSLA.O) - or from China.

Spiegel said Schoch’s call comes after some BMW managers have pushed for a new electric strategy internally for some time.

Those managers hope that the company will now quickly shift to develop a pure e-platform, which would make cars lighter and give them a longer battery range and a bigger interior.

Asked about the report, a BMW spokesman said the company was currently “optimally positioned” and declined to comment on speculation about internal discussions.

Via Reuters

__________________
Check on the Latest BMW News
Become a fan of Bimmerpost Facebook
Follow us on Bimmerpost Twitter
Subscribe to Bimmerpost Youtube Channel
Appreciate 2
      06-26-2020, 11:02 AM   #2
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6480
Rep
18,950
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Well, glory be! How about that?

This is very encouraging news. Now hopefully they will ditch plans for small FWD EVs on the FAAR platform and start planning some small RWD and AWD EVs with big power that have at least some hope of being exciting.

Also, just in case its not clear, the topic is *not*:

There's a Movement at BMW to Only Develop Electric Platforms

In other words, there are no plans to abandon ICE vehicles. In fact, with the possibility for all future (post 2023-ish) BMW EVs to move to this new dedicated EV platform, the existing CLAR and FAAR vehicle architectures would be freed up to concentrate on what they were originally intended for - to underpin great ICE vehicles.
Appreciate 4
JunkStory150.00
LSM637.00
clee1982722.50

      06-26-2020, 11:07 AM   #3
Macphisto
First Lieutenant
Macphisto's Avatar
690
Rep
328
Posts

Drives: 2016 ///M2
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Hurry the F up! My current M2 is my last ICE car. I'm ready for the future.
Appreciate 4
JunkStory150.00
///M TOWN3644.50
ted99132.00
clee1982722.50

      06-26-2020, 11:11 AM   #4
AUSf22
Major
Australia
857
Rep
1,406
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C HS
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

The peeps at Tesla just had a tiny shudder ..
__________________
2020 M2 Competition | Hockenheim Silver | 437M Wheels | RHD
OEM MP Rear Spoiler | Perl Carbon Front Lip | M2 CS Steering Wheel | MP Carbon Steering Wheel Trim
Full Car STEK Dyno Shield PPF | 20% Llumar Ceramic Tint All Round | BlackVue900S-2CH | Cellink NEO Battery
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2020, 11:12 AM   #5
stein_325i
Blocked from G80/G82 for having an opinion
stein_325i's Avatar
United_States
7733
Rep
4,249
Posts

Drives: BMW/Mercedes-Benz
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Agree that a BEV platform from the ground up is the way to go. It made no sense when they let go of the previous CEO for failing to catch up to Tesla and produce worthy EV's only to just follow the same plans he had for electric cars with the new CEO. They are already very behind Tesla and an all electric platform from the ground up will likely yield better range and a more efficient vehicle which they will need with the Supercharger network being one of Tesla's many advantages over the competition, but then again how long will it take them. The iX3 is taking forever to launch, the i4 is scheduled for 2022 (and that was before Covid) and who knows what updates/upgrades Tesla will make in that time?

https://jalopnik.com/bmws-new-ceo-is...1836597860/amp
__________________
Daily: 2019 Mercedes-Benz CLS 53 Weekend: 2008 BMW Z4 M Wife's: 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300
Retired:1995 E36 325i 5MT / 2004 E46 330i 6MT / 2011 E90 335xi / 2017 G30 540i / 2017 982 Boxster S 6MT / 2019 F87 M2C 6MT
Appreciate 3
ted99132.00
LSM637.00
clee1982722.50

      06-26-2020, 11:19 AM   #6
rjd598
Banned
United_States
1712
Rep
6,707
Posts

Drives: F30 340i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW 340i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSf22 View Post
The peeps at Tesla just had a tiny shudder ..
I don’t think Tesla cares
Appreciate 9
mkoesel6479.50
stein_325i7733.00
Hoffan10.50
JunkStory150.00
jkoral446.00
ted99132.00

      06-26-2020, 11:51 AM   #7
chrisny
Brigadier General
chrisny's Avatar
United_States
491
Rep
3,280
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

I thought that was the whole point of the i cars in the first place. But then the started planing/making them with the same bodies as the ICE cars. Yet we have the i4 concept looking like the original i strategy and the iX3 the mix.... 🤷🏻
Appreciate 1
Efthreeoh8069.50

      06-26-2020, 12:21 PM   #8
The Automotive Enthusiast
Retired BMW Genius
The Automotive Enthusiast's Avatar
United_States
2561
Rep
3,424
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

A little late to the game, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
In other words, there are no plans to abandon ICE vehicles. In fact, with the possibility for all future (post 2023-ish) BMW EVs to move to this new dedicated EV platform, the existing CLAR and FAAR vehicle architectures would be freed up to concentrate on what they were originally intended for - to underpin great ICE vehicles.
It's the final era of the ICE. It's on its deathbed.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 3
///M TOWN3644.50
ted99132.00
clee1982722.50

      06-26-2020, 01:07 PM   #9
agentrnge
Second Lieutenant
188
Rep
278
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 6MT, 2001 740iL
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Lincoln Park, NJ

iTrader: (0)

There is still no way to mask the mass of a 4900 lb electric sedan. I know everything is bloated and getting bloatier anyway as time moves on, but an extra 1/2 ton in mass over the same size car as an ICE/hybrid is silly. "but its down low so it doesnt count" as if it helps handling to have a 1000 lbs of battery on the floor. I am not super anti-electric or anything. Looking forward to one I like. Didnt care for the model S. plenty fast, but I hated driving it except in straight line launches.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2020, 01:10 PM   #10
Dog Face Pony Soldier
2006 TIME Person Of The Year
Dog Face Pony Soldier's Avatar
United_States
9501
Rep
6,351
Posts

Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 335i  [4.87]
I'm not taking the position that BMW shouldn't develop an all-electric platform. I just think people need to realize that this initiative WILL pull resources away from everything else the brand produces, and is the antithesis of the "save the manuals" and "lighter and more minimal" crowd.
__________________
Appreciate 1
Efthreeoh8069.50

      06-26-2020, 01:25 PM   #11
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6480
Rep
18,950
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast View Post
It's the final era of the ICE. It's on its deathbed.
We aren't going to get into a debate about the timeline here. EVs are obviously the future, but the transition will happen over many years. Combustion engine vehicles are on nearly every single traditional automaker's roadmap until through the end of this decade, so it is far too soon to be killing off ICE vehicle architectures at this time.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2020, 01:35 PM   #12
cstavaru
Brigadier General
cstavaru's Avatar
238
Rep
3,256
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bucharest, Romania

iTrader: (0)

The problem is, they should have begun the research 10 years ago, or at least 5 years ago. Now their only chance is to buy a platform, starting research now is probably useless.
Appreciate 4
ted99132.00
alep8540.00
clee1982722.50

      06-26-2020, 01:40 PM   #13
heavyD^2
Lieutenant Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
1514
Rep
1,555
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
The problem is, they should have begun the research 10 years ago, or at least 5 years ago. Now their only chance is to buy a platform, starting research now is probably useless.
What a silly comment.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2020, 01:40 PM   #14
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
1438
Rep
3,641
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
This was bound to eventually happen, any platform BMW currently has developed was done to best accommodate both electric and ICE (4er, i4). If electric is the future for BMW, then it only makes sense for them to develop a platform that would maximize the potential of the electric vehicle. This is likely years out from being used but it's promising news.
Appreciate 1
ted99132.00

      06-26-2020, 01:44 PM   #15
RinconHeat
Private
230
Rep
85
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Virginia, USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Perhaps I'm feeling pessimistic about the brand but maybe the clean slate an EV offers will at least pause this hurtling course BMW is on toward becoming Toyota. As the best BMW ICE offerings rise from the pig stye- heavy, numb, rounded and swine-faced, maybe they could try to make a new drivers car in EV form. Unfortunately, I honestly can't see this with Dukec and Hooydonk at the helm. I fear the current leadership is more interested in being the best "selling" brand rather than just the "best." Alas, it seems we are already beginning to speak of how great BMW was when they engineered cars for "drivers" and not status seekers looking for big grille gimmicks and a roundel.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2020, 02:12 PM   #16
hotrod182
.
hotrod182's Avatar
208
Rep
3,503
Posts

Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentrnge View Post
There is still no way to mask the mass of a 4900 lb electric sedan. I know everything is bloated and getting bloatier anyway as time moves on, but an extra 1/2 ton in mass over the same size car as an ICE/hybrid is silly. "but its down low so it doesnt count" as if it helps handling to have a 1000 lbs of battery on the floor. I am not super anti-electric or anything. Looking forward to one I like. Didnt care for the model S. plenty fast, but I hated driving it except in straight line launches.
Well, the VW IDR race car is neither light or high HP. It is 100% electric though, and set a time of 6:05 on the Nürburgring, broke the Pikes Peak overall record, as well as several other records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_I.D._R

The Porsche Taycan S Turbo is also 100% electric, and it can beat a M5 around a road course, and runs mid 10's at over 130mph. All with an efficiency rating of over 80MPGe. Can only imagine how much better it is going to get. And as I said, it will always be fun to have gas cars around, so you can hear them screaming as they struggle to keep pace with you in your serenely quiet EV.
__________________
2011 Alpine 335d M-Sport 12.34 @ 110.48mph
2017 i3 Terra
2008 Black 335i Sedan. 11.11@ 129.47 mph
2008 Monaco Blue JB3 2.0 335i Coupe. 11.33 @ 132.77 mph (N54 stock turbo trap speed WR)
60-130mph: 6.95 seconds stock turbo WR (.16% slope)
Appreciate 5
///M TOWN3644.50
ted99132.00
A6bullet313.00
clee1982722.50

      06-26-2020, 02:18 PM   #17
///M TOWN
.
///M TOWN's Avatar
Canada
3645
Rep
3,547
Posts

Drives: M GmbH
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macphisto View Post
Hurry the F up! My current M2 is my last ICE car. I'm ready for the future.
My M2 is also my last gas⛽️ car

The future is now

Appreciate 2
      06-26-2020, 02:34 PM   #18
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6480
Rep
18,950
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
I'm not taking the position that BMW shouldn't develop an all-electric platform. I just think people need to realize that this initiative WILL pull resources away from everything else the brand produces, and is the antithesis of the "save the manuals" and "lighter and more minimal" crowd.
All of that was already happening anyway.

This possible new direction takes all of the funds there were going to burn through developing electric vehicles either way, and gives them a much better shot at actually coming up with competitive products. It's a big win.

Meanwhile, they'll continue to churn out compelling ICE vehicles, including some with manual transmissions, as long as the market is there. They will still be around for quite awhile longer.
Appreciate 1
      06-26-2020, 03:01 PM   #19
BMWGirlFL
Lieutenant
BMWGirlFL's Avatar
1295
Rep
516
Posts

Drives: Z4 M40i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
February 4, 2020:
https://europe.autonews.com/automake...-only-platform
Quote:
BMW re-affirms position against electric-only platform
BMW's new management team will not change course and follow Mercedes-Benz and Audi by developing a dedicated electric vehicle architecture to better compete against EV leader Tesla.
CEO Oliver Zipse believes BMW's "integrated" platform, which can underpin EVs as well as cars with combustion engines, could be a unique selling point for customers. Therefore, Zipse plans to stick with a conservative investment strategy for EVs that he has carried over from his predecessor, Harald Krueger.
European automakers will need to invest heavily to halve fleet emissions to 59 grams per kilometer by 2030 from a target of 95g/km that takes full effect next year. A decade from now, BMW expects every second car it sells in Europe will either be a plug-in hybrid or a battery-electric vehicle to meet targets.
"In our view, market forecasts are too uncertain to warrant inflexible, electro-only platforms," BMW executive Udo Haenle told Automotive News Europe. "What we don't want is for our plants to operate below capacity," Haenle said. The executive last month transitioned from his job as senior vice president of production strategy to a new role in engineering.
Financially, this approach makes sense because in the early years of the market's transition to electrified vehicles factories can quickly adapt to changing demand for combustion-driven and battery-powered vehicles. "Building a new plant would cost roughly 1 billion euros, whereas ramping up existing facilities to produce battery-electric vehicles will amount to a three-digit-million-euro investment, mainly for body shop and assembly," Haenle said.
BMW will retain its current strategy of one architecture for front-wheel-drive and one for rear-wheel-drive cars. This common distinction within the combustion engine world is not found on EV-only platforms. Critics says that BMW's strategy puts a premium on finances over innovation and could lead to uncompetitive products. Haenle argued that won't be the case at BMW. "We are not going to compromise on anything that will impact the customer," he said.
Bumpy beginning
BMW already experimented unsuccessfully with a purpose-built electric vehicle when the i3 arrived in 2013. The automaker says it will not carry over the i3's costly construction and unique body-on-frame layout to subsequent EVs.
Last November Zipse extolled the virtues of the group's cautious approach, billing it even as a competitive differentiator. "We don't believe that is at all necessary [to have a specialized platform] to achieve the desired product characteristics," said BMW's CEO, who took over in last August. "Instead you can accomplish these very well with an intelligent platform that fulfills all the requirements."
Audi parent Volkswagen Group takes a different view. Engineers can take full advantage of their freedom to develop traits unique to Audi's dedicated PPE EV architecture, including its 800-volt system that lowers weight, saves space and enables an ultra-fast recharging speed. Meanwhile Mercedes is developing its EVA2 platform that will underpin the upcoming EQS sedan.
Using BMW's logic, however, its rivals shouldn't have bothered with architectures specifically for EVs, especially because Zipse believes its integrated platform does not come with trade-offs such as limited electric range. "It's not the case that you have to make compromises if you plan long in advance. I believe the fact that we don't need a dedicated (EV) platform could be a unique selling point," he said.
BMW's stance on EV-only architectures may be short lived, however, because the European Union aims to break its dependence on imported fossil fuels that contribute to climate change by going fully carbon neutral by 2050. To facilitate this, new EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said in December she plans to propose more punitive 2030 fleet emission targets.
Emphasis added. Too soon to say when.
__________________

Appreciates appreciated.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2020, 04:00 PM   #20
mbanck
Lieutenant
273
Rep
444
Posts

Drives: Skoda Karoq
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Munich, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL View Post
February 4, 2020:
https://europe.autonews.com/automake...-only-platform

Emphasis added. Too soon to say when.
The top post is quoting the workers council leader, this is from management. I guess the people who merely work there are getting nervous that the current management strategy won't work mid/long term.

In any case, developing an all-BEV platform now would mean products in 4-5 years earliest I'd guess, unless they manage to update the I3 platform (but looking at how they have divested from carbon manufacturing AFAIK, that doesn't sound likely either).
Appreciate 2
ted99132.00
clee1982722.50

      06-26-2020, 04:27 PM   #21
BMWGirlFL
Lieutenant
BMWGirlFL's Avatar
1295
Rep
516
Posts

Drives: Z4 M40i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
The top post is quoting the workers council leader, this is from management.
Good catch! Would like to read Der Spiegel article with quote in top post but can't find one.
__________________

Appreciates appreciated.
Appreciate 1
ted99132.00

      06-26-2020, 06:34 PM   #22
Remonster
Major
United_States
560
Rep
1,475
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 Avus Blue
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Well, the VW IDR race car is neither light or high HP. It is 100% electric though, and set a time of 6:05 on the Nürburgring, broke the Pikes Peak overall record, as well as several other records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_I.D._R

The Porsche Taycan S Turbo is also 100% electric, and it can beat a M5 around a road course, and runs mid 10's at over 130mph. All with an efficiency rating of over 80MPGe. Can only imagine how much better it is going to get. And as I said, it will always be fun to have gas cars around, so you can hear them screaming as they struggle to keep pace with you in your serenely quiet EV.
I daily drive a Model 3 Performance but I'll be the first to tell you that the performance of EVs, at least with Tesla, is far from exciting in any way. Of course you're missing the sound of an engine but everybody already knows that. The more important thing is the falling power curve of the electric motor + single speed transmission, the faster you go, the weaker the acceleration is. This is nice because I feel zero incentive to drive much higher than the speed limit but it's also very boring. Everyone brags about EV torque "From" 0 RPM but they don't mention that it really delivers maximum acceleration G forces "At" 0 RPM and it drops down very quickly above 40 MPH.

Also, Teslas accelerate very quickly when fully charged but the performance falls off a cliff as the battery charge level drops down. I leave my house every morning at 90% charge and if I floor it, the car throws me hard back into my seat and makes me laugh every time. I get to work at about 80% charge and it's a hair slower than it was when I left home. By the time I return home after work, I'm down to about 70% and it's much slower than it was in the morning. By the time you get down around 50% charge, it feels downright slow compared to what you've become used to when the car is fully charged. That truly sucks and it's why I'd never consider a car like this for track use or purposely take it out in the canyons for a fun drive. Not all EVs are like this, it's a choice Tesla has made to keep the overal range high and achieve other goals but it keeps my car firmly in the "excellent daily commuter" camp for me.

I have not driven a Taycan yet but my friends who have tell me that the Porsche approach is not like Tesla at all, hopefully BMW would follow in Porsche's footsteps and prioritize acceleration potential when the car is already at higher speeds and also keep maximum acceleration available for longer as the battery charge level drops.
Appreciate 4
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:43 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST