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      12-25-2020, 05:54 PM   #45
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I think with a brand like Schirmer, it's 50/50 marketing/engineering. There's just so much you can make different with the E9x M3 suspension without completely changing the subframes. They intentionally keep their settings/geometry a secret cos they know you can replicate it with other brands of suspension arms. But nothing wrong with that - they did the work and want to keep their trade secrets to themselves.

Also I doubt their small kit will be cheap. The way I see it, they're trying to build a brand like Singer does with Porsche. Their V8 GT car is a sum of its parts, not just the suspension setup. So I don't think they will release all the knowhow in the small kit, nor price it low to cheapen their brand.

That said, the small kit is definitely on my wish list!
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      12-25-2020, 06:06 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd View Post
I think with a brand like Schirmer, it's 50/50 marketing/engineering. There's just so much you can make different with the E9x M3 suspension without completely changing the subframes. They intentionally keep their settings/geometry a secret cos they know you can replicate it with other brands of suspension arms. But nothing wrong with that - they did the work and want to keep their trade secrets to themselves.

Also I doubt their small kit will be cheap. The way I see it, they're trying to build a brand like Singer does with Porsche. Their V8 GT car is a sum of its parts, not just the suspension setup. So I don't think they will release all the knowhow in the small kit, nor price it low to cheapen their brand.

That said, the small kit is definitely on my wish list!
£3,327.50 ($4,452.53) excl. shipping / VAT is what I was quoted for the small kit. From what I was told the small kit & Schirmer spec Nitrons / KW Competitions would effectively make your car a "Schirmer Car" — which might be helpful when it comes to resale value? As opposed to just a car with assorted SPL / Turner arms? Who knows.
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      12-25-2020, 06:18 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911r View Post
£3,327.50 ($4,452.53) excl. shipping / VAT is what I was quoted for the small kit. From what I was told the small kit & Schirmer spec Nitrons / KW Competitions would effectively make your car a "Schirmer Car" — which might be helpful when it comes to resale value? As opposed to just a car with assorted SPL / Turner arms? Who knows.
Any idea what's included in the small kit?
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      12-25-2020, 06:42 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by 911r View Post
£3,327.50 ($4,452.53) excl. shipping / VAT is what I was quoted for the small kit. From what I was told the small kit & Schirmer spec Nitrons / KW Competitions would effectively make your car a "Schirmer Car" — which might be helpful when it comes to resale value? As opposed to just a car with assorted SPL / Turner arms? Who knows.
Any idea what's included in the small kit?
Not exactly, this is what I was told ... I know it only includes spherical front control arm bushings, and mainly focuses on the rear subframe (bushings found in the rear subframe/diff, and adjustable arms that attach to the the rear subframe)
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      12-25-2020, 06:57 PM   #49
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Sounds like the only thing you can't get elsewhere is the "diff lift kit". So, a very overpriced set of spherical bearings and arms?
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      12-25-2020, 07:07 PM   #50
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Sounds like the only thing you can't get elsewhere is the "diff lift kit". So, a very overpriced set of spherical bearings and arms?
I've seen their lift kit on the M4 from Apex's maintenance video. It's a nice kit, has differential scraping been an issue for E9X M3s?

I can see how it might be at the 'Ring considering the elevation changes combined with high speed bankers.
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      12-25-2020, 09:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Sounds like the only thing you can't get elsewhere is the "diff lift kit". So, a very overpriced set of spherical bearings and arms?
I've seen their lift kit on the M4 from Apex's maintenance video. It's a nice kit, has differential scraping been an issue for E9X M3s?

I can see how it might be at the 'Ring considering the elevation changes combined with high speed bankers.
From what I understand diff lift kits also help adjust other components (driveshaft, etc) if the car has been lowered, it also allows for a better roll center too iirc. I believe it serves an inherent purpose beyond just raising the diff for added clearance.
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      12-26-2020, 10:21 AM   #52
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Epoustouflant View Post
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Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Sounds like the only thing you can't get elsewhere is the "diff lift kit". So, a very overpriced set of spherical bearings and arms?
I've seen their lift kit on the M4 from Apex's maintenance video. It's a nice kit, has differential scraping been an issue for E9X M3s?

I can see how it might be at the 'Ring considering the elevation changes combined with high speed bankers.
From what I understand diff lift kits also help adjust other components (driveshaft, etc) if the car has been lowered, it also allows for a better roll center too iirc. I believe it serves an inherent purpose beyond just raising the diff for added clearance.
Very interesting. Definitely excited to hear more about the engineering and setup philosophy once they're live.
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      12-26-2020, 10:40 AM   #53
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This isn't a schirmer part but it's probably the same concept for the rear diff cooler and why there are holes in the bumper
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      12-26-2020, 10:57 AM   #54
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If you aren't drifting a car, is a cooler and pump really necessary? Seems like overkill.

Keep clean fluid at the proper level, and pop for the bearing/gear polish.

I've actually thought of some small bolt-on scoops that direct air up along the back of the diff face.
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      12-26-2020, 11:01 AM   #55
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This isn't a schirmer part but it's probably the same concept for the rear diff cooler and why there are holes in the bumper
I believe the Fire Orange M3 owner is in the Facebook group. He runs a racing ABS unit and his lap times are extremely fast.

I'd assume heat management is a problem for him. He runs a Drexler unit as on Schirmer cars. Do clutch type LSDs run hotter than the OE visco unit?
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      12-26-2020, 11:14 AM   #56
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For running 20 minute track sessions... no a cooler isn't necessary. I don't think I've ever seen mine get above 240f. And that's running that thick OSG honey goodness for diff fluid. I did have thoughts of running a cooler at one point just because race car so the diff drain plugs have been switched out for capped AN fittings when I installed the diff but I've never bothered. Osg 4.10 6 speed btw with a temp sensor installed in the back cover.
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      12-26-2020, 11:24 AM   #57
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M4 Schirmer parts but still relevant to the discussion:

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      12-26-2020, 11:28 AM   #58
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Fwiw I'm hoping to purchase one of the wings shown on the m4. Have also seen it on some m2's and reached out to Schirmer Parts to see if it would fit an e92 m3 and check on pricing.
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      12-26-2020, 11:30 AM   #59
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It just looks like the m235 wing.
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      12-26-2020, 11:36 AM   #60
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It just looks like the m235 wing.
Agree and big fan of the m235iR wing also but like the look of the end plates on the Schirmer wing slightly more, perhaps it is the same wing with revised end plates and uprights?
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      12-26-2020, 11:41 AM   #61
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Some more of the wing around the 2:20 mark in this video:

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      12-26-2020, 11:44 AM   #62
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Malek's winglets look adjustable. The winglets on the apex car look fixed and custom. I'm pretty sure Malek has an oem m235ir wing.
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      12-26-2020, 12:02 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Malek's winglets look adjustable. The winglets on the apex car look fixed and custom. I'm pretty sure Malek has an oem m235ir wing.
Yep, 99% sure this is the same setup slicer also runs.
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      12-26-2020, 12:14 PM   #64
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Yes, he had the same.
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      12-26-2020, 12:19 PM   #65
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The more I see the m235ir wing the more I get swayed to that look, but the gt4 wing is period correct and able to be mounted on the low mount for the street and high mount for track duties.
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      12-26-2020, 02:56 PM   #66
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The more I see the m235ir wing the more I get swayed to that look, but the gt4 wing is period correct and able to be mounted on the low mount for the street and high mount for track duties.
I'll wind up with something different eventually, but it fits well for now.
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