let's talk about wheel studs!

[roastbeef]

i think this next time around, i'm going to get the turner bullet nose studs with the HM-30 coating.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...6-e9x/?pdk=AQE

[slicer]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i think this next time around, i'm going to get the turner bullet nose studs with the HM-30 coating.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...6-e9x/?pdk=AQE

That's what I'm using. I have been happy with them

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by CorruptCommie

Studs have a certain number of torque cycles, don't think that's the case with lug bolts.

Lug bolts certainly do have a number of torque cycles. Seen an E30 and E90 lose a wheel with the OEM lug bolts. The other 5 BMWs I've seen lose a wheel have been studs.

The problem isn't so much the stud/nut or lug bolt. The issue is not keeping the hubs AND the wheel mating surfaces clean. The BMW TIS even says to clean the mating surfaces...at least the one I saw for my 2004 330Ci.

I believe titanium will work but it depends on the alloy and you lose strength vs hardened steel.

The other thing I see is people rechecking lug nuts and not using finesse when you use the torque wrench. All they are doing is putting more torque in the fastener.

I used to torque to 85ft/lbs and recheck at 80 ft/lbs. Now I just use a green torque stick and check 2 lug nuts per wheel at 80 ft/lbs.

[dvas]

Having a wheel fall off is my biggest track day fear - even more so than losing the brakes. Saw an E92 M3 loose the front left wheel coming down the outer loop at WGI last year. He ended up in the wall and upside down. He was not hurt and luckily had track insurance because the car was totalled. Evidently, he had noticed cracks on the set of oem bolts at one wheel and replaced those, but neglected to replace all of the bolts for the remaining wheels. Lesson learned I guess.

Having said that, I am running with a set of Apex studs all around. I have one year on them (15 or so days) and plan to replace them at the end of next year. No visual issues of wear yet but I check them every track day morning as I switch over to my track wheels.

In addition to replacing them periodically and keeping the mating surfaces clean, I avoid loosening/tightening the studs/bolts when they are still hot from a session.

[SYT_Shadow]

I'll stick with my tried and proven method of using BW race studs and swapping them out every year

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'll stick with my tried and proven method of using BW race studs and swapping them out every year

+1

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I'll stick with my tried and proven method of using BW race studs and swapping them out every year

That doesn't necessarily stop the potential of losing a wheel. Just takes one time.

The ONLY way is to clean the mating surfaces and properly torque the fasteners.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by m13s

had the Turner wheel studs fail at Road Atlanta this summer. Went back to ARP studs no problems with those.

Is this on an E9x M3? I was never able to find an ARP part # for the E92.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

That doesn't necessarily stop the potential of losing a wheel. Just takes one time.

The ONLY way is to clean the mating surfaces and properly torque the fasteners.

Agreed

I use the yellow bw nuts which have solid lubricant. I also do not hammer them in with an impact wrench

[m13s]

Originally Posted by ayao

Is this on an E9x M3? I was never able to find an ARP part # for the E92.

I'll check with the mechanic on what they used. It was either ARP or Bimmerworld.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by m13s

I'll check with the mechanic on what they used. It was either ARP or Bimmerworld.

Does it matter the brand? It's just a hardened steel fastener which is a certified metric grade. It meets a minimum standard as set by ISO, DIN, ASTM or some other certifying body. If a lug bolt is a class 10.9 then any capability beyond that is of no value. In fact, you may accelerate failure by using too hard of fastener.

I still don't get why lug nuts are such an issue.

Should be talking about how to properly torque a fastener which many do not know how to. Most of all people pull way too fast. It doesn't take much to be 20%+ beyond the torque setting on the wrench. You can still add torque even if it clicks.

[72dan]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Does it matter the brand? It's just a hardened steel fastener which is a certified metric grade. It meets a minimum standard as set by ISO, DIN, ASTM or some other certifying body. If a lug bolt is a class 10.9 then any capability beyond that is of no value. In fact, you may accelerate failure by using too hard of fastener.

I still don't get why lug nuts are such an issue.

Should be talking about how to properly torque a fastener which many do not know how to. Most of all people pull way too fast. It doesn't take much to be 20%+ beyond the torque setting on the wrench. You can still add torque even if it clicks.

There are different qualities out there in metal advertised with the same ratings.
I am in water treatment and Chinese stainless steel pipe and fittings rusts in a few years, US stainless steel does not.

My buddy runs a machine shop, does a lot of aerospace stuff, motor mounts for commercial airliners, etc. he has to have certicates of compliance on all metal and save samples from each batch, real metal from USA where the correct ratios of iron, nicekel, etc are present for the grade.

I run the Turner studs am happy with them. I am sure you can find something on alibaba for 1/3rd the price. Just like Harbor Freight tools, hey look the same but break on the second use where that Snap On tool lasts forever.

It’s the same with everything, I fly carbon fiber model airplanes, the European carbon planes are lighter, stiffer and stronger than the Chinese carbon planes. Better cloth, better epoxy glue, better manufacturing practices.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by 72dan

There are different qualities out there in metal advertised with the same ratings.
I am in water treatment and Chinese stainless steel pipe and fittings rusts in a few years, US stainless steel does not.

My buddy runs a machine shop, does a lot of aerospace stuff, motor mounts for commercial airliners, etc. he has to have certicates of compliance on all metal and save samples from each batch, real metal from USA where the correct ratios of iron, nicekel, etc are present for the grade.

I run the Turner studs am happy with them. I am sure you can find something on alibaba for 1/3rd the price. Just like Harbor Freight tools, hey look the same but break on the second use where that Snap On tool lasts forever.

It's the same with everything, I fly carbon fiber model airplanes, the European carbon planes are lighter, stiffer and stronger than the Chinese carbon planes. Better cloth, better epoxy glue, better manufacturing practices.

True...but HF tools and CF planes aren't built to a specified engineering standard.

Wheel studs which state they are class 10.9 meet a minimum established standard. Like to exceed the minimum spec in many cases.

[72dan]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

True...but HF tools and CF planes aren't built to a specified engineering standard.

Wheel studs which state they are class 10.9 meet a minimum established standard. Like to exceed the minimum spec in many cases.

I don’t believe just because they advertise class 10.9 that it is true.
Were they independently tested to meet that standard. Who is going to stop them from false advertising, the wheel stud police?
The stainless steel in my industry that came from China has 316L stamped on it but it rusts.
In fact when I go to tradeshows every USA made product has been copied in China, they even copy the American flag and the patent number.
There are fake Rolex watches on eBay, fake Louis Vuitton purses and Fake aerospace grade hardware. This is the world we live in now, the world of zero ethics.
I am trying to close a deal right now on filtration for a major cooking oil company and they want some cast iron filtration from me. They want certs that it is lead free. My supplier a multi billion dollar public company says they are lead free but cannot provide cents. They used to make everything in the USA but ten years ago fired all the US workers and moved everything to China.
When you read the articles that vitamins, workout protein powder, etc all tested high for lead and arsenic what do you think is causing it?
Yet when I quote USA made product with traceability my price is too high.

Didn’t your m3 get recalled for a defective airbag that can kill you with metal shards? They sold millions of defective airbags not just to BMW but to all automakers. Integrity is scarce in today’s world.

[MPower7]

for 5mm spacers will the 82mm Bimmerworld race studs be sufficient?

The premium ones are 4 dollars more each (9.99) and are have these features. Does that even make a difference?

Large shoulder provides extra strength and is properly sized for BMW brake rotor hats
Undercut relief to remove thread run-out section of stud that the steel hub would otherwise cut into
All corners radiused to eliminate stress risers

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by MPower7

for 5mm spacers will the 82mm Bimmerworld race studs be sufficient?

The premium ones are 4 dollars more each (9.99) and are have these features. Does that even make a difference?

Large shoulder provides extra strength and is properly sized for BMW brake rotor hats
Undercut relief to remove thread run-out section of stud that the steel hub would otherwise cut into
All corners radiused to eliminate stress risers

Yes. 75mms would probably work with 5mm spacers, but 82's should work well.

[Richbot]

I'm using them with a 5 on the rear of my car right now, it's fine. Ought to work up to 15 in theory, depending on how thick the bolt pockets/pads are on the wheels

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by 72dan

I don’t believe just because they advertise class 10.9 that it is true.
Were they independently tested to meet that standard. Who is going to stop them from false advertising, the wheel stud police?
The stainless steel in my industry that came from China has 316L stamped on it but it rusts.
In fact when I go to tradeshows every USA made product has been copied in China, they even copy the American flag and the patent number.
There are fake Rolex watches on eBay, fake Louis Vuitton purses and Fake aerospace grade hardware. This is the world we live in now, the world of zero ethics.
I am trying to close a deal right now on filtration for a major cooking oil company and they want some cast iron filtration from me. They want certs that it is lead free. My supplier a multi billion dollar public company says they are lead free but cannot provide cents. They used to make everything in the USA but ten years ago fired all the US workers and moved everything to China.
When you read the articles that vitamins, workout protein powder, etc all tested high for lead and arsenic what do you think is causing it?
Yet when I quote USA made product with traceability my price is too high.

Didn’t your m3 get recalled for a defective airbag that can kill you with metal shards? They sold millions of defective airbags not just to BMW but to all automakers. Integrity is scarce in today’s world.

Ok

[nickauger]

Anyone run m14 stud insteed of m12 . Look to be the way to go. Rogue engineering have a convertion kit.

[Richbot]

I'd look at upgrading to the F8x hubs while I was doing that, if I were doing that. They are supposedly bolt-on

[roastbeef]

I don't really see a pressing enough issue with what we already have to do an upgrade. Especially the hassle of upgrading hubs.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MPower7

for 5mm spacers will the 82mm Bimmerworld race studs be sufficient?

The premium ones are 4 dollars more each (9.99) and are have these features. Does that even make a difference?

Large shoulder provides extra strength and is properly sized for BMW brake rotor hats
Undercut relief to remove thread run-out section of stud that the steel hub would otherwise cut into
All corners radiused to eliminate stress risers

this is what I've been running for years

Unlike the stuff I ran before, these don't break gratuitously. And yeah, I don't torque wheels when they're hot