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      09-27-2014, 04:24 PM   #45
CSBM5
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My experience is that the Rivals are better suited to heavy cars especially camber challenged up front ones. Jay's experience, so far, on his E39 M5 of the Rival vs RS3s is that the Rival is clearly the superior choice on that car, especially up front. The E90 M3 is about 400lbs lighter than the M5 and has about -1.5 camber available up front versus -0.5 on the M5, but the Rivals work great on the M3. So far this season I have 33 runs on this set with no heat cycling out evidence. Here's is Jay's thread on his experience so far.
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      09-30-2014, 12:28 AM   #46
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Hey everyone! Well, the good news is that I have a new car! Fortunately or not, I couldn't pull the trigger on the M3. George, it's Greg's old car, a 29k mile Z06 set up for SSR/AS kind of. I owe the wife on this one, for coming off of the rear seat requirement. It needs some little cosmetic and interior things, but...racecar.

I took 9th in pax yesterday (not bad considering I picked it up last week) and had a blast on the Continentals, in the dry...which will be reserved for the rain in the future. Speaking of rain, the Rivals are horrible in the rain when flipped. However, they did wear better than the RS3s on the M5. On the Vette...it's RS3s for the first batch and I'll be running Sebring next week!

Thank you all, for your input in this. It will be interesting to see if the Boss has a chance in FS next year
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      09-30-2014, 07:51 AM   #47
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CONGRATS, Jay--you're gonna love it! I had a love affair w/ my old Millennium Yellow C5Z some tears ago. So much so, that I bought it back after I sold it.

BTW, I have a C7Z on order (although I may not keep it, if it's worth too much on the open market when I get it! lol).

ENJOY...
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      09-30-2014, 08:09 AM   #48
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Congrats Jay, enjoy the Z06! Speaking of PAX, it looks like you've been doing extremely well with the 4000+lbs E39 M5 in F-street.

Regards,
Chuck
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      09-30-2014, 07:20 PM   #49
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Congrats on the C7Z, George! Let me know if you need a co-drive...or...er...umm...if you would let me test drive it! lol I am sure it will have instant value and it will be gone faster than the FRS!

Chuck, Thank you for the kind words. The M5 is certainly more capable than me! I do wish that I could have made the M3 happen but with 3 college age boys and a 2 year old daughter...well...a cheap Z06 means more track time! Maybe one day!
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      09-30-2014, 11:16 PM   #50
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C5Z on Hoosiers may be the closest thing to a perfect autocross car that exists. Street tires slightly less awesome but still awesome cars and still my favorite corvettes.
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      09-30-2014, 11:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
C5Z on Hoosiers may be the closest thing to a perfect autocross car that exists. Street tires slightly less awesome but still awesome cars and still my favorite corvettes.
Yeah, I am going to bounce between AS and SSP for a bit (in my mind). I hit my head with the stock seat, and altering the seat takes me all the way there...For another forum, I suppose.

Thank you all, for the great information!

Jay
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      10-02-2014, 09:44 AM   #52
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Hey guys, I just found the thread and will need to read through it, but I figured I'd chime in with my thoughts.

Mid-year I decided that I needed something with torque and decided to jump into FS with a 2007 Shelby GT. The Shelby is awesome to drive, and FS is an awesome class, so I plan to stay. However, I'm considering a DD replacement and the M3 would be an awesomely fun / nice upgrade over my BRZ. As such, I'm considering the FS prospects of this car.

As I see it, many cars could have won at Nationals this year (mine included). Brian in the 2011 GT along with James and Matt in the E46 M3 ZCP all had the speed to win. However, I think the 1LE will prove to be one of the faster cars if not the fastest car in the class (Dave was running with very limited prep, due to parts availability that should open up soon).

With that said, I don't see how an E92 won't be faster than an E46. Now with the Boss 302 in the class, my perception is that the 1LE, Boss 302, and M3 ZCP will have a slight advantage over the rest of the class. I think the Boss 302 is a fairly safe assumption since the 2011+ GT has won, and I don't see how the Boss 302 is slower. The M3 is the unknown though, although I know it did well in 2012 on Hoosiers.

I don't expect the 2015 Mustang to be much of a threat - it has grown to be the width and weight of the 1LE Camaro, but only has 9.0"/9.5" wheels and is handicapped by mandatory 3.73 gears.

I'm now kicking around the idea of the M3 and the Boss for autocross use (obviously there are other factors but just thinking autocross for now).

The Boss will be the fastest car in the class point-to-point and off the line IMO. It has a high enough redline to make 3.73's work, which will give it 66mph in 2nd but crazy acceleration (MT tested it at 3.97s 0-60). It is softer and heavier than the Shelby though, so no advantage there.

The E92 M3 is narrower than pretty much everything except the E46, and lighter than everything in the class except the E46 and the Shelby. The real question for me, having not driven one, is if they have excessive understeer during sweepers. What are your thoughts on that?

In other news, for anyone who needs it, I believe this is enough documentation to allow for alignment pin removal:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1041105
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      10-02-2014, 10:09 AM   #53
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Understeer in sweepers? Not on mine. Balance was always fantastic. On concrete had to add a little bit of front shock but that was all I had to change going from asphalt to concrete to keep it in line. Big front bar pretty much makes the car better in every way balance wise, more stable in transition, better traction, and less pushy steady state (doesn't whack the bumpstops as hard or as long). And the diff is effective enough that throttle steering the car does not piss away exit speed

Bar is best bang for buck on this car in autocross by a long shot. If I had to do it over again I'm not sure if I would use the RD sport bar I got, which is a solid bar, or the Dinan which is same diameter but hollow. Now that we are on street tires I think I would take the lighter Dinan bar.
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      10-02-2014, 01:31 PM   #54
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Same here. Pretty amazed at the balance situation after putting on the large Dinan (solid one, the original Dinan bar, non-adjustable) bar. I only had the car a week or so when I put it on, and I was worried that it would increase steady state understeer too much. At the same time, I pulled the pins for max negative camber and did an alignment. All I can say is that with same size tires all around (275s), this setup definitely doesn't need more rear bias. If it had the stock front bar, I would assume it would be too tail happy which I think the stock chassis may be anyway even with the stagger wheels/tires.

I've found the tail lively with the throttle when needed, surprisingly so at times. The diff might play a part in that since it can and will go all the way to 100% lockup, but it does need slip to start to lock, and you can feel it work, progressively, with throttle and slip. I didn't think I'd care for the viscous M-diff compared to the typical LSD, but so far I'm comfortable with it and like it better than the standard type in my M5. Even with all the suspension mods I've done on my M5, it is nowhere near as "rotate-able" as the E90 M3 especially on corner entry to apex.

Street tire class is going to be interesting next year as it appears manufacturers are all over themselves trying to have the best tire. "Supposedly" we'll have a new Rival compound and also the Michelin PSC2 is purported to be coming in TW200 and a range of sizes intended for street tire class, not to mention Dunlop's new ZII whatever-its-called, and whoever else will be in the running.
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      10-03-2014, 01:53 AM   #55
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Clarification for you fellas -- the RD bar is actually hollow, as proved by our mishap at the Crow's Landing NT last June:

Attachment 1099476

Last edited by Maypo; 12-27-2014 at 05:56 PM.
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      10-03-2014, 07:31 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maypo View Post
Clarification for you fellas -- the RD bar is actually hollow, as proved by our mishap at the Crow's Landing NT last June:
WHOA... Pls define mishap.
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      10-03-2014, 12:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maypo
Clarification for you fellas -- the RD bar is actually hollow, as proved by our mishap at the Crow's Landing NT last June:

Attachment 1099476
Oh, snap













You're welcome
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      10-03-2014, 12:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB/ZR-1 View Post
WHOA... Pls define mishap.
The bar simply gave out in the middle of my daughter's 3rd run.

As she approached the finish area head-on, we could see the end of the bar hanging underneath, but she was quite a ways off still and I thought it was the rubber sealing strip on the fiber panel under the radiator.
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      10-03-2014, 01:16 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maypo View Post
The bar simply gave out in the middle of my daughter's 3rd run.

As she approached the finish area head-on, we could see the end of the bar hanging underneath, but she was quite a ways off still and I thought it was the rubber sealing strip on the fiber panel under the radiator.
Wow... That's a bit disturbing for the part to fail like that under performance use.

Thx for the response.
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      10-03-2014, 03:26 PM   #60
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Italian company right? Just weld it back together Tony
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      10-03-2014, 05:25 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Italian company right? Just weld it back together Tony

Hey, hey, hey! lol
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      11-15-2014, 01:46 AM   #62
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I'm in this game myself for 2015 after spending years elsewhere. It should be interesting to disrupt the apple cart. Looking forward to meet some of you on this thread.
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      11-15-2014, 08:12 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maypo View Post
Clarification for you fellas -- the RD bar is actually hollow, as proved by our mishap at the Crow's Landing NT last June:

Attachment 1099476
Looking at the wall thickness of that bar gives me an initial gut reaction that it too thin for the application. I say this from the standpoint of an old mechanical engineer who actually specialized in heat transfer and fluid dynamics back in the old days. Clearly I don't know the dimensional data nor the stress values, etc, but it's just a gut feel type of thing. Obviously you proved that gut feel correct I suppose...as long as the bar was not binding on something and being subjected to stresses well beyond its design limits. The cross-section is too hard to see to evaluate the failure, but, again, it appears the wall thickness is so thin that little would come from that anyway.

It sure would be awful for someone to have a front bar fail in mid-corner somewhere like the uphill esses at VIR fully loaded up over 100mph...instant oversteer and who-knows-what's-next.

Regards,
Chuck
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      11-17-2014, 06:56 PM   #64
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The possibility of high-speed failure crossed my mind, too. And, because of the potential for a big crash, I fully expected RD to replace it post haste, gratis, with profound assurances --simply as a business policy. They gave me "team" cost for a replacement, but they were fairly clinical about the whole affair; satisfied with close-up photos and purchase date so as to track down the production lot of which it was a member.
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      11-20-2014, 11:23 AM   #65
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Excellent thread, with good information. A big ass front bar will definitely be my first purchase. I'll have the opportunity to shake my '11 E90 DST down in a few weeks at our last event of the season. Tires will certainly be a second purchase and a decision on whether to "convert" to ZCP or not from my 18's. A square tire size setup will likely be the way I'll go, and I have this thread to thank as I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

Chuck -- why don't I know you? I'm assuming you run with Tar Heel. Ever make it to Cherry Point with NCR SCCA?
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      11-20-2014, 04:34 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Chuck -- why don't I know you? I'm assuming you run with Tar Heel. Ever make it to Cherry Point with NCR SCCA?
I don't know, we've probably met or at least been at the same events sometime? I first autocrossed with THSCC back in the 70s! I've only been able to make 3-4 THSCC events the past two seasons with the M3. Prior to that I either took the M5 in ESP or co-drove with my daughter in her E46 ZHP before she left the area for college and now work. She drew me out of a car-slumber back in 2004 when she wanted to get into autocross and track.

I've never been to an event at Cherry Point yet but would like to make it down there soon...am an SCCA member though, but I mainly run events down in Charlotte (Zmax) or South Carolina (Michelin) where my daughter lives.

Here's a pic from Danville this year laying down Rival rubber in a nice long full throttle sweeper exit:
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