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      04-12-2019, 09:19 AM   #1
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Your car is watching you. Who owns the data?

https://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/cars-data-privacy

This is concerning, one for privacy reason, two we're collectively paying for our cars and the technologies in it-which the car makers obtained and makes money off of.

One obvious example, about a month ago I had problem with my oil level sensor being damaged by mice... Dash display then showed messages saying oil change is needed. I then get a phone call every day from local dealership because my car was sending them messages that it needs an oil change.
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      04-12-2019, 11:30 AM   #2
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There was a major internet outage in my area a day ago and the wifi didn't work in my car. Was wondering if there is a way to totally disable this if I ever go crazy doing something to it other than simple exhaust.
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      04-12-2019, 11:34 AM   #3
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This is crazy.
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      04-12-2019, 01:52 PM   #4
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The 4th Amendment prevents the Government from illegal search and seizure, but not private companies.
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      04-12-2019, 03:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The 4th Amendment prevents the Government from making UNREASONABLE search and seizure, but not private companies.
Fixed it for you. No search is inherently illegal, it is the 4th that makes unreasonable ones unconstitutional, not illegal.

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      04-12-2019, 08:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher View Post
Fixed it for you. No search is inherently illegal, it is the 4th that makes unreasonable ones unconstitutional, not illegal.

From Cornell Law:

The Fourth Amendment originally enforced the notion that “each man’s home is his castle”, secure from unreasonable searches and seizures of property by the government. It protects against arbitrary arrests, and is the basis of the law regarding search warrants, stop-and-frisk, safety inspections, wiretaps, and other forms of surveillance, as well as being central to many other criminal law topics and to privacy law

But you are correct, I did not explicitly quote the Constitutional text of the Amendment.
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      04-12-2019, 11:01 PM   #7
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You're worried about this huh? So I guess you don't own a smartphone use credit cards drive with a license plate use the internet or live in the 21st century.

Anyway if you're concerned for now you can disable connectivity on your car by removing whatever device it uses to do that like the cellular system. That stuff is not a secret.
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      04-12-2019, 11:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
From Cornell Law:

The Fourth Amendment originally enforced the notion that “each man’s home is his castle”, secure from unreasonable searches and seizures of property by the government. It protects against arbitrary arrests, and is the basis of the law regarding search warrants, stop-and-frisk, safety inspections, wiretaps, and other forms of surveillance, as well as being central to many other criminal law topics and to privacy law

But you are correct, I did not explicitly quote the Constitutional text of the Amendment.
Laws were created based on the 4th; however, an unconstitutional search is not, on its face, illegal. A good faith search later determined to be unconstitutional wasn't illegal and no criminal charges can be brought. Evidence can be excluded.

Sorry, this is my field and I just cannot help myself. I was not criticizing you.
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      04-13-2019, 12:26 AM   #9
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Vehicles log lots of data that could be incriminating. The fourth amendment makes the government get a warrant to get access your vehicles "stuff"" after you're involved in an accident. Most modern motor vehicles pretty much log the previous 60 seconds of everything before an airbag event. Big Brother is watching.
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      04-13-2019, 06:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher View Post
Laws were created based on the 4th; however, an unconstitutional search is not, on its face, illegal. A good faith search later determined to be unconstitutional wasn't illegal and no criminal charges can be brought. Evidence can be excluded.

Sorry, this is my field and I just cannot help myself. I was not criticizing you.
I think you are arguing semantics; which I get, it is your profession.

The reason I responded back to you was your response to my post obscured the point I was making in my post, which is a person's natural expectation of privacy, as addressed by the language of the 4th Amendment, only applies to the US Government regarding reasonable search and seizure (data being considered property), whereas private companies that create devices that create "personal data" do not fall under the constraints set forth under the 4th Amendment.

Generally, when one contracts with a company that provides such service that creates "personal data" the purchaser signs an agreement that allows the company to use the data. If one were carefully look at all the documents signed at the time of purchase of a modern automobile, most likely he would find terms and conditions within the paperwork that states he gives his consent to allow the company to use the personal data for the various purposes it sees fit.

No issues...
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 04-13-2019 at 07:17 AM..
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      04-13-2019, 09:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eluded View Post
Vehicles log lots of data that could be incriminating. The fourth amendment makes the government get a warrant to get access your vehicles "stuff"" after you're involved in an accident. Most modern motor vehicles pretty much log the previous 60 seconds of everything before an airbag event. Big Brother is watching.
Actually, depending on the vehicle manufacturer, the EDR records only 5 seconds of pre-crash data (sometimes up to 20 seconds). What is recorded varies as well. Most common is vehicle wheel speed, percent throttle, brake activation, airbag deployment, seatbelt activation, velocity change, etc. It is a very useful tool to aid a crash investigator as well as an insurance investigator but again, it is just one of many tools and should not be used alone, but in conjunction with other investigative tools.
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      04-13-2019, 12:11 PM   #12
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      04-14-2019, 05:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher View Post
Fixed it for you. No search is inherently illegal, it is the 4th that makes unreasonable ones unconstitutional, not illegal.

Unless your running for election and your opponent pays for false reports that the FBI then uses to trick a judge into signing a search warrant.... Then same crooked FBI agents leak select information to corrupt fakenews.
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      04-14-2019, 05:22 PM   #14
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Rumor is that google maps will route you based on paying advertising. Your commute could be 12.9 miles but the local pizza, car dealership, or drycleaning pays for google advertising. So google routes your to drive by this location making your trip slightly longer.
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      04-15-2019, 08:25 AM   #15
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Always surprised at these "what about x" like cars when Google has access to far greater amounts of information and has been using it at will for years. Best I can tell my car only knows where I go, how fast, how long it sits there and what is going on with the cars electronics. Compare this to my smart phone and I am not too worried about my car except for speed, driving characteristics, and this type of information and who it is given to. Marketing research doesn't worry me too much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by overlook637 View Post
Rumor is that google maps will route you based on paying advertising. Your commute could be 12.9 miles but the local pizza, car dealership, or drycleaning pays for google advertising. So google routes your to drive by this location making your trip slightly longer.
Takes more than internet rumors to have me believe it. Unless it was extremely close to the same overall time it should quickly become obvious to many if they use it on their normal routes and test the theory out. I haven't seen it.
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      05-20-2019, 12:44 PM   #16
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I have been reading BMW privacy policy at https://www.bmwusa.com/privacy-policy/index.html

Notably it has no explicit reference to data transmitted by my car to BMW. It mostly talks about data gathered by BMW web sites.

Not being a lawyer, I suspect there may be loopholes in the policy I can't define clearly.

Anyone know, for example, whether BMW would sell information gathered from my car to my insurance company? (Which might raise my rates if it doesn't like the way I drive or where I drive...)

Is BMW committed to asking my permission before doing that?

Does BMW provide a privacy policy statement that is relevant to data BMW gets from my car?
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      05-20-2019, 12:51 PM   #17
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      05-20-2019, 04:13 PM   #18
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hopefully it'll show everyones data.

so we can see who is hitting redline in 3rd and 4th every day and who is driving in comfort/efficient and not taking it past 3k.
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      05-24-2019, 04:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
hopefully it'll show everyones data.

so we can see who is hitting redline in 3rd and 4th every day and who is driving in comfort/efficient and not taking it past 3k.
The Porsche ECU knows that data
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