BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-31-2010, 01:35 PM   #1
sharkfighter
Second Lieutenant
sharkfighter's Avatar
27
Rep
204
Posts

Drives: e90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rocky Mtns.

iTrader: (1)

Thumbs up R&T: 2011 M3 Competition vs. M3 GT - Track Faceoff

Cool article street cars vs. their Le Mans race car counter parts

RESULTS:

Factory M3 lapped in 2:14
M3 GT race car lapped 1:47





Name:  m3gt.jpg
Views: 12352
Size:  315.8 KB



BMW M3 vs. M3 GT - Comparison Test
The ultimate racing machine?

September 17, 2010

With right foot firmly planted on the accelerator, Tommy Milner exits Turn 14 and uses the full width of the available tarmac to free up his M3 for a long blast down Miller’s lengthy front straight, the longest on the ALMS schedule. Without lifting, Milner upshifts via paddles at redline, the screaming 4.0-liter V-8 pushing the BMW through the thin mountain air and deep into triple digits. At the braking point for Turn 1, the tall 22-year-old proves his worth, slowing the car at nearly 1g while simultaneously calling for two perfect-blip downshifts and steering the car on the edge of adhesion right down to the apex, setting himself up for a full-throttle exit that puts the car on just the right path for the rhythm section that follows, which is oh-so-critical to another fast lap at Miller.

Just another day in his office—the cockpit of a Rahal Letterman BMW M3 GT?

Easily could have been. But Tommy’s actually at the wheel of a production BMW M3, a Melbourne Red Metallic road car equipped with the $2500 Competition Package, the $2500 Technology Package and the $2900 M double-clutch gearbox. And best of all, I’m seated right next to him.

“This is really fun,” says Milner, who admits two things: that he prefers the M3’s quick, mistake-free 7-speed paddle-shift dual-clutch transmission to the 6-speed manual, and that he hasn’t driven a road car on a track in a long time. “Street tires are so forgiving,” explains a wide-eyed Tommy, who says the production M3 felt great over the curbs and that the brake pedal got only a touch soft after several hot laps, but with no degradation in stopping force. What’s more, Milner shut the stability control off to address a mild mid-corner understeer that he describes as a 1 or a 2 on a scale of 1 to 5. “I can handle the oversteer,” he explains. “Yes, the M3 now can get a bit loose under braking, but I’d still say that it’s pretty close to neutral on entry. There really are no character flaws with this car. And on exit, with traction control off, it’s nice because I can drive off the corner with a little bit of slip angle. In general, though, the rear of the M3 is really hooked up.”

In Milner’s second session in the car, he’s dropped the fronts a few psi to improve front grip. It helps. “It’s made the M3 a bit more loose, for sure, but that’s fine.” That said, Milner feels the production M3 still has enough entry understeer to allow him to charge into a corner especially hard, then pick up full throttle and be gone. Interestingly, Milner thinks current teammate Bill Auberlen, a stop/go type of driver (arguably the most successful American BMW driver of the last 15 years), would love the M3 road car and its mild push. Dirk Mueller, last year’s teammate, however, prefers cars that are loose.

All told, Milner says two things would help him lap faster around Miller in the production M3: more power and grip. “That’s all I’d need. The confidence this car gives you right away is amazing...it does nothing bad. The M3 road car feels comfortable instantly. It’s a very friendly car.”

As Tommy grew up around his father’s PTG BMW racing team back in the mid-1990s (and also has a clean 1976 2002tii at home), that last comment isn’t exactly a surprise. Nevertheless, it is true, and it shows in the confident way that Milner flings both cars around the track.

About the race M3: Built by BMW Motorsport in Munich, the M3 GT is a serious race machine, a carbon-bodied 2745-lb. car with a heavily triangulated steel rollcage and a low-mounted dry-sump flat-crank 4.0-liter V-8 that puts out 470 bhp on E85 ethanol, breathing through twin 29.4-mm restrictors. A sequential transverse-mounted X-Trac transaxle is on duty in back, allowing no-lift shifts and moving weight to the rear, where ancillaries such as the air conditioning, starter, clutch, alternator and power steering are all located.

The M3 GT—with Dunlop race slicks and 6-pot AP disc brakes at each corner—is known for its handling and braking, and although ABS isn’t allowed the beautifully prepared car with a huge front splitter does have traction control, significantly improved by the BMW F1 guys for this season. Calling it “the best I’ve ever experienced,” Milner says it allows full-throttle exits from turns, at a variety of pre-set slip angles.

After climbing out of the M3 GT’s substantial carbon-fiber seat (mounted far back in the cockpit) and the requisite info download with engineer Chris Yanchar, Milner speaks: “This car is always fun to drive. It’s an M3. In one way, it’s just like an M3 road car with slicks and a carbon-fiber body. But it’s quite a bit different in that the speeds are way higher. It feels like a street-car M3 that has been on steroids for many, many years.”

Milner is pleased, because the setup of the car, right off the trailer, is pretty close. Because it has great balance, Milner says he can push from the word go, and drive amazingly deep into corners. The car is very stable, very comfortable, he says, in high-speed corners such as Turns 1, 2 and 3, just like the M3 road car. “The race car, though, is faster everywhere. Everything is much more visceral. You get thrown forward a lot more under braking.” Our data back up Milner’s internal g-meter, showing that in braking for Miller’s Turn 1, the production M3 decelerates at a respectable 0.92g, whereas the M3 GT does so at 1.35g, thanks in part to its stickier tires, aero downforce, lighter weight and larger brakes.

In the second session, Milner experiments with revised tire pressures and a stiffened rear anti-roll bar. It makes the car a bit loose, which probably won’t suit Auberlen’s tastes. “In race conditions, even if the car isn’t perfect,” explains Milner, “we have a car that’s comfortable to drive, a car we can drive at 100 percent every lap. I might like to throw a lot of wing on the car, but the engineers here at Rahal are always talking about keeping that wing trimmed out just to make sure we have that straight-line speed.”

Although our data reveal a large gap in performance between the road and track versions of the M3s around Miller, Milner says you can’t deny the similarities. “Both M3s are very much BMWs. And both have 50/50 weight distribution, which makes them so easy to drive. You can get in either car and immediately feel comfortable.”

Article

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...w-m3-vs.-m3-gt

Name:  track.jpg
Views: 11777
Size:  539.7 KB
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 02:47 PM   #2
esquire
Brigadier General
esquire's Avatar
United_States
478
Rep
3,044
Posts

Drives: 2011 Dakar Yellow M3, 2018 M5
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, California

iTrader: (0)

let the record reflect that i'm shocked the M3 GT won.
__________________

[ESS VT2-625] [Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust] [KW Clubsports] [OSS Angel Eyes] [Revinora r-CRT Lip]
[Vorsteiner Boot] [Challenge Race Diffuser] [See the Build Thread HERE]
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 03:14 PM   #3
E60orBust
Captain
United_States
87
Rep
825
Posts

Drives: "The Brothers //M-Sport" E90/2
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MD

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
let the record reflect that i'm shocked the M3 GT won.
__________________
Down for Maintenance
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 04:47 PM   #4
bayerischeperformance
Second Lieutenant
12
Rep
237
Posts

Drives: e46 m3
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fairfax, va

iTrader: (3)

Looked like fun.

Too bad the car varies so much from the street version...has a rear transaxle, car is basically a mid engine car where the engine sits and not to mention it's a semi tube frame car
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 04:54 PM   #5
3s-a-charm
Major
3s-a-charm's Avatar
Canada
135
Rep
1,328
Posts

Drives: 2017 Tesla Model X
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2007 BMW X5  [0.00]
I would LOVE to experience 1.5g on the skidpad...

Looks like the Corvette street car is much closer to it's GT counterpart.
__________________
17 Tesla Model X 90D (I've been converted!)
PAST: 14 Tesla Model S P85D, 16 X1, 13 X5 M-sport, 04 M3 Cab, 08 E92 M3, 08 535xiT, 07 X5 4.8i, 06 E90 325i, 87 E30 325i, 85 E30 318i
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 04:58 PM   #6
duk
///M
United_States
158
Rep
3,195
Posts

Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (0)

amazing info and vid
__________________
2011.5 AW/FR E92 M3 6MT
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 05:10 PM   #7
Nautik
Captain
37
Rep
636
Posts

Drives: 2009 AW M3 DCT
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NoVA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm View Post
I would LOVE to experience 1.5g on the skidpad...

Looks like the Corvette street car is much closer to it's GT counterpart.
The Corvette is just a beast! It was practically a GT car to begin with. Not much to change!
__________________
2009 e92 M3 - AW DCT - Apex Arc8s - Corsa
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 07:14 PM   #8
jayparry
BMW Performanceer
United_States
29
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: BSM '09 135i 'tii' Dinan
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
This is 'road and track's reason for being. Very, very cool.

They have very namby pamby articles on road cars (and comparos where they are too chicken to pick a winner so they have every author choose a different winner and put them on the sidebars) but here they are in their element.
__________________
2009 BMW 135i - Premium, Sport, Cold, Comfort, Nav, Active Steering, Premium Sound, iPod/Smartphone
BMW Performance - Carbon Fiber trim, Suspension, Front Rotors, Rear Valence, Spoiler, Steering Wheel, Gearshift, Handbrake, Dead Pedal
Dinan - stage 2 Engine Program, Intake, Exhaust, Short Shifter and Pedals.
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 08:13 PM   #9
Nition
Second Lieutenant
19
Rep
235
Posts

Drives: 2010 AW/FR E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

$70k car vs $800,000 car.
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 08:18 PM   #10
zenderm3
Lieutenant Colonel
zenderm3's Avatar
Australia
95
Rep
1,996
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 DY/2010 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane

iTrader: (0)

The thing that I love about this... is everything :P Damn we have such a fine driving machine!
__________________
________________
My ///M is in my garage .... and it is a beast!
2010 E92 M3 Space Grey | Fully Loaded
1996 E36 M3 Dakar Yellow - SOLD
2004 Honda Accord Euro - SOLD
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 09:04 PM   #11
jmunro
First Lieutenant
United_States
7
Rep
348
Posts

Drives: X6
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Duluth, MN

iTrader: (0)

IMO, it would have been more interesting to compare the the M3-GTS to the M3-GT
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 09:06 PM   #12
JCtx
Major General
256
Rep
5,012
Posts

Drives: No BMW yet
Join Date: May 2008
Location: El Paso TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayerischeperformance View Post
Too bad the car varies so much from the street version...has a rear transaxle, car is basically a mid engine car where the engine sits and not to mention it's a semi tube frame car
And control arm suspension all around, much wider, lower.... A totally different car. Hardly comparable IMO.
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2010, 09:44 PM   #13
arter
collecting toys
arter's Avatar
41
Rep
810
Posts

Drives: M3 MCB
Join Date: May 2008
Location: rochester, ny

iTrader: (1)

Compared to the other street cars, the M3 does good in the twisties, but has trouble accelerating as fast as the others on the long straight. More of a momentum car in this group than you would think.....

Hell, maybe I will have to put a S/C on this thing......( or learn to do the corners much better....
__________________
2011 e92 M3 Monte Carlo Blue ESS 535 - gone but not forgotten
2015 cayman GTS - new toy
2006 SLK 55 AMG sold
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2010, 05:28 AM   #14
bavarian19
General
bavarian19's Avatar
United_States
516
Rep
18,858
Posts

Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmunro View Post
IMO, it would have been more interesting to compare the the M3-GTS to the M3-GT
+1
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2010, 06:12 AM   #15
VantageV8
Enlisted Member
4
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: E89 35i, E92 335i
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Forgive my ignorance, but does stock M3 really have 1-piston caliper front and rear brake?
or am I missing something here?
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2010, 08:21 AM   #16
z00m
Second Lieutenant
z00m's Avatar
37
Rep
247
Posts

Drives: E92 m3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lithuania,Vilnius

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VantageV8 View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but does stock M3 really have 1-piston caliper front and rear brake?
or am I missing something here?
Yes it has
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2010, 09:19 AM   #17
cawest19
Livin' the M life
United_States
13
Rep
151
Posts

Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Princeton, NJ

iTrader: (0)

$800,000...really?
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2010, 09:29 AM   #18
R A W L S
R A W L S
R A W L S's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: 1997 M3
Join Date: May 2010
Location: _____________________

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Noticed the street M3 was on Continental's. I drive that Miller track frequently and I bet Michelin PS2's would have shaved a second or two off the M3's time
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2010, 06:47 PM   #19
datbimmerdoe
Lieutenant General
datbimmerdoe's Avatar
United_States
1265
Rep
17,493
Posts

Drives: like I'M BOUT THAT LIFE
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PARADISE aka CANES COUNTRY

iTrader: (0)

*yawn*
__________________
#datbimmerdoe #thatbimmertho

FOLLOW @datbimmerdoe on INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2010, 11:37 PM   #20
Jack28
HUSTLER
Jack28's Avatar
14
Rep
1,317
Posts

Drives: E46 M3-E92 M3
Join Date: May 2006
Location: So/Ca Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

I bought the mag a couple weeks ago and was searching for this vid.

Thanks for posting....
__________________

E92 M3 ZCP- AW/FR w/Extended Leather) Packages: ZCP, 6MT, Fully Loaded
E46 M3 - AW/IR 6 Spd, Fully Loaded. 19'' BBS LM DBK, V-CSL C/F Bmpr, Botld, Diff, V-CSL Custum IR-CF Center Counsel, V-GTR Hood, Dixis Ti 76mm, Meisterschaft Ti Sec. 1&2, EvoSport Headers, CAI, D/A Chip, tck d/a, Alcantera Headliner with Imola Red Sttitching....
Appreciate 0
      11-05-2010, 05:27 AM   #21
bavarian19
General
bavarian19's Avatar
United_States
516
Rep
18,858
Posts

Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA

iTrader: (23)

Nice!


I saw that racecar at the M Power event recently. I would love to be in that around the track.
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2012, 03:50 PM   #22
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
199
Rep
4,318
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3 RS
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Living at (almost...) 9k

iTrader: (5)

R&T compares M3 and M3 GT

Not sure if a re-post but if you haven't seen it this is pretty cool:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...mw-m3-vs-m3-gt
__________________
GT3 RS | Desperately seeking the next great M car...
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST