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      12-26-2019, 06:27 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I think Troy Jeup has a lot of experience with these motors, though much more with the S85 that has the same rod bearing issue. He might be onto something. 10W60 may be thick for street driven S65. And Redline by most accounts is a good oil. I would still change bearings if they are original, but I would consider 5W50 after the change. I have not run 10W60 for over 40k miles, since I changed bearings in 2014. Curious what they look like now. I was going to wait until I have 60k on them to change again since I changed the originals at 60k, but that could be 2-3 years at the rate I drive this car (I drive 2 other cars as well). And when I do change bearings again, I will go with increased clearance bearings - using the industry standard for clearance seems reasonable to me.
I am unsure why 10W60 is considered too thick. I base this statement on the flow data provided by AutoTalent which clearly shows that with proper bearing clearance that there is adequate flow across the RPM range.

Of course, you need to not be running 8000RPM with cold oil. But for daily driving and normal use, there is no reason to think that the viscosity of the oil is the culprit according to the supplied measurements and data.

This chart, taken from AutoTalent's post, is what I am basing my statements on (plus all the other data available from BE and AutoTalent). It is clearly shown that with adequate clearance, proper oil flow can be established when using 10W60 oil.



The chart also shows that the OE clearance of the AutoTalent test engine was inadequate to allow for proper oil flow, especially above 8000RPM. As some of the professional engine builders have said, there is no way an engine can survive at 8000+ RPM with such low oil flow volumes.

In my case, I have BE bearings with BE-ARP hardware. I also run Redline 5W50 because it has a viscosity (21) and HTHS (5.0) that is very similar to the original Castrol 10W60 oil specified by BMW (22.7, 5.2). That said, I have run Castrol 5W50 Syntec (18.4, 4.1) in the past and it seemed just fine.

Cheers,
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Last edited by Scharbag; 12-26-2019 at 06:37 PM..
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      12-26-2019, 07:34 PM   #156
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10W60 probably is not too thick once it is hot, but maybe 5W50 flows better during warm up or flows better when clearance is on the tight side of stock specs.
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      12-26-2019, 08:56 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
10W60 probably is not too thick once it is hot, but maybe 5W50 flows better during warm up or flows better when clearance is on the tight side of stock specs.
That I can agree with yes. But I still think that there is no magical oil that can make up for lack of clearance. Fix the problem then use good oil of your choosing.

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      12-27-2019, 07:33 AM   #158
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      12-29-2019, 09:51 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Was the spun rod bearing due to a failed main bearing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
As asked, did the mains fail first?

Hey guys,

I honestly don't know. Purchased car at 39k miles, done ~25-30 track days with it, had BE bearings + BE-ARP bolts installed about 6-8 track days and ~6k miles ago. Then it blew (overheat + rod knock on track) at 67k miles. Oil used in my ownership has been Castrol TWS 10w60, OE BMW (Shell) 10w60, Ravenol 10w60. When the motor blew it was on OE BMW (Shell) 10w60.

We inspected the motor. Engine oil filter was like a glitterbomb. Opened the bottom, we found bearing #1 seized to the crank. Didn't bother investigating any further because I didn't want to bother paying even more labor to open up the top and get deep in there.

Was considering a 4.6L stroker build but ended up replacing with a reman 4.0L motor. Put BE bearings and BE-ARP bolts in this new motor as well. Have 2,000 miles and 2 track days on this new motor now.
BE bearings and it blew up after 6k miles. That's concerning and scary!
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      12-31-2019, 10:44 AM   #160
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I ran Redline and also Joe Gibbs when Driven when I lived in Illinois. I firmly believe that both are a substantial improvement on the S65 and S85. Once I put fresh bearings in our M5 and M3 I will switch again.
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      12-31-2019, 10:46 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
BE bearings and it blew up after 6k miles. That's concerning and scary!
Not stating the builder did not perform their job correctly, however after installing and building many engines the past 20 years any engine will seize if not properly put together. We do not know if they just slapped in a set of BE's without checking tolerances.
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      12-31-2019, 10:58 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
BE bearings and it blew up after 6k miles. That's concerning and scary!
Most likely main bearing went first.
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      12-31-2019, 02:43 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcase View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
BE bearings and it blew up after 6k miles. That's concerning and scary!
Not stating the builder did not perform their job correctly, however after installing and building many engines the past 20 years any engine will seize if not properly put together. We do not know if they just slapped in a set of BE's without checking tolerances.
You mean using plastigage to check on the new bearings then wet sanding if needed?
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      01-16-2020, 09:54 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcase View Post
Not stating the builder did not perform their job correctly, however after installing and building many engines the past 20 years any engine will seize if not properly put together. We do not know if they just slapped in a set of BE's without checking tolerances.
Not stating, but damn we wish that!
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      01-17-2020, 04:54 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
You mean using plastigage to check on the new bearings then wet sanding if needed?
Wetsanding? What exactly would you wetsand?
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      01-17-2020, 06:31 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Johal E32 View Post
Wetsanding? What exactly would you wetsand?
That is a great question!!

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      01-17-2020, 07:30 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johal E32 View Post
Wetsanding? What exactly would you wetsand?
Was looking at this DIY post here that said this

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333638

"Note that the desired range when using green plastigage I linked above which is in inches is:
You should see anything from 0.0022 - 0.0028. Even the upper end of 0.0030 isn't the end of the world. The connecting rod bores seem to wear bigger over time.
For those that are on the upper end of the clearance spectrum that you'd like to bring down, get some 600-grit wet sandpaper, and sand the parting lines (with the paper wet). Go 6-8 swipes in each direction with light-to-medium pressure (5lbs - 10lbs pressure). Clean the dust thorougly, re-install, and re-measure. If it's still not where you want it, do it one more time. I don't think I'd do it more than twice though."
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      01-23-2020, 02:55 PM   #168
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Zolti at autotalent who did a full and complete tear down and rebuild of my s65 after the crank seized from bearings recommends and put in 5-50 since the first fill up. I've been putting it in ever since and it's been 65,000 since the rebuild with no issues. Zolti is a mastermind of these engines. Every time I go to his shop he has anywhere between 6-10 s65's and s85's cracked open for complete rebuild from the rod bearing problem. Haven't heard of any of his rebuilt motors having issues or experiencing another engine failure and they all use 5-50 since their rebuilds. He put in and recommends schaffer 5-50 but maybe all 5-50's are the same
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