5W-50 Recommended by TroyJeup

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Rcase

Not stating the builder did not perform their job correctly, however after installing and building many engines the past 20 years any engine will seize if not properly put together. We do not know if they just slapped in a set of BE's without checking tolerances.

You mean using plastigage to check on the new bearings then wet sanding if needed?

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by Rcase

Not stating the builder did not perform their job correctly, however after installing and building many engines the past 20 years any engine will seize if not properly put together. We do not know if they just slapped in a set of BE's without checking tolerances.

Not stating, but damn we wish that!

[Johal E32]

Originally Posted by akkando

You mean using plastigage to check on the new bearings then wet sanding if needed?

Wetsanding? What exactly would you wetsand?

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Johal E32

Wetsanding? What exactly would you wetsand?

That is a great question!!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Johal E32

Wetsanding? What exactly would you wetsand?

Was looking at this DIY post here that said this

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333638

"Note that the desired range when using green plastigage I linked above which is in inches is:
You should see anything from 0.0022 - 0.0028. Even the upper end of 0.0030 isn't the end of the world. The connecting rod bores seem to wear bigger over time.
For those that are on the upper end of the clearance spectrum that you'd like to bring down, get some 600-grit wet sandpaper, and sand the parting lines (with the paper wet). Go 6-8 swipes in each direction with light-to-medium pressure (5lbs - 10lbs pressure). Clean the dust thorougly, re-install, and re-measure. If it's still not where you want it, do it one more time. I don't think I'd do it more than twice though."

[steven747]

Zolti at autotalent who did a full and complete tear down and rebuild of my s65 after the crank seized from bearings recommends and put in 5-50 since the first fill up. I've been putting it in ever since and it's been 65,000 since the rebuild with no issues. Zolti is a mastermind of these engines. Every time I go to his shop he has anywhere between 6-10 s65's and s85's cracked open for complete rebuild from the rod bearing problem. Haven't heard of any of his rebuilt motors having issues or experiencing another engine failure and they all use 5-50 since their rebuilds. He put in and recommends schaffer 5-50 but maybe all 5-50's are the same

[Remonster]

It's important to understand that the viscosity printed on the bottle tells you what you're starting with but various types of oils shear down in viscosity at different rates.

Castrol 10w-60 and the BMW branded 10w-60s (Castrol and later Shell) plus likely a lot of the other 10w-60 products aimed to replace those products for the M engines start off just barely above the minimum viscosity required to be labeled as SAE 60 and go down from there quickly. If you use Castrol 10w-60 for 10 or 15 thousand miles, it spends a significant chunk of that mileage as a 40 weight oil based on used oil analysis results that have been posted online.

On the other hand, some of the good boutique oils like Torco or Redline do a good job of staying in-grade for the entire oil change interval. It's entirely possible that you may put Redline 5w-50 into one S65 and BMW TwinPower Turbo 10w-60 into another S65 and will end up draining both out at 10k miles to find that what was originally a 10w-60 is now the thinner of the two.

I am actually not too surprised to see 5w-50 being recommended for these engines, not only because of the viscosity but because of the additives commonly found in any 5w-50 I've ever seen, they're pretty much all built as "race" oils. The key differentiator between them is some may have few detergents and should not be used more than 3-5k miles max in a street car. Others like Torco and Redline have plenty of detergency, high TBN, etc. and can easily be used for 10k or more miles if desired.

[Assimilator1]

Only just started on this thread, so a little behind .
(Now caught up, I left in answers to points that weren't responded to).

Scharbag
Re good looking bearings in the 'rod bearing condition' thread, having recently gone through the whole thread I saw 2 sets that looked bare unscathed, as they are apparently supposed to. Unfortunately I didn't note whose those were.

Re auto-stop start, I read in a couple of papers (sorry can't remember which) by King & others that the ASS engines have to have tougher bearings to compensate for the much greater numbers of starts vs a non ASS car.
I think the the 10w60 (mainly the 10w bit) is considered too thick for the stock bearings.

Originally Posted by dparm

Very different products. Red Line is a boutique oil targeted at the aftermarket and is heavy on the POE for basestock. Castrol is targeted at the broader market and is [likely] group III + IV.

I would not consider those two oils "comparable" except in their viscosity grade.

Was POE a typo? Meant to be POA? When I searched POE I got references about oil for AC compressors .

Originally Posted by Frozen

I disagree. They look good.

You're kidding?
The lead layer has completely gone on at least 5 of those shells, they're completely shagged! Lol, and theirs no grey area about this, the lead layer is their to embed debris when it gets in, & to protect the crank on start ups. If you don't believe me then read up about bearing make up pdf papers by King, Clevite, Glycol or ACL etc.

e.g, by King bearings - Engine bearings & how theywork.pdf

From that:-

Embedability is the ability of the bearing material to entrap and sink beneath the surface
small foreign particles (dirt, debris, dust, abrasive residuals) circulating in the lubricating oil.
Poor embedability of a bearing material causes accelerated wear and produces scratches on
the journal and bearing surfaces, which may lead to seizure.

And King - engine bearing materials :-

The third layer is the lead based overlay (or babbitt) applied over the intermediate layer.
The lead based alloy contains about 10% of tin enhancing its corrosion resistance and few percents of copper increasing the overlay strength. Thickness of the overlay is only 0.0005-0.0008". The low overlay thickness of tri-metal bearings limits their anti-friction properties like seizure resistance, conformability and embedability. When the thin overlay is removed (even partially) the anti-friction properties drop dramatically.

Originally Posted by Frozen

Have you ever looked at the bearing Condition thread on this very forum? Cars with 40k miles look way worse than these 215k mike bearings.

It's not a opinion it's a fact. Take those 215k mile bearings and put them next to one of the 100+ images on the bearing thread on this forum and they show less wear that 80% of them.

I agree that this is not direct proof that redline 5w30 is what helped these bearings live such a long life but it does add some credibility to Troyjeup's claim.

On point 1. Occasionally, yes
2.Flat out wrong! Yes I have looked through all the photos on that thread & I'd say those S85 bearings you posted were in the top 20% worst bearings on their at least! You've got the stats back to front , exposed copper=shagged.
3.Not really, more likely that engine just got lucky on the tolerance stacking. But the 5w50 might have helped a bit.

Btw you mention Troy uses 5w30 a few times, I think you typo'd & meant 5w50 .

If we all agree that the BMW engineers screwed up on the bearing clearance specs...
Then why would we trust them on which oil to use?
Good point!

Originally Posted by 330indy

Get a clue ....
Design flaw? Ahh OK ....
Yep it's flawed alright.
An engine (V8, no less) that is smooth past 8200 rpm!
I am SICK of the bashing of the #idiotengineers @BMW !
If you're stupid enough to stretch OCIs on the race bred engines in M cars you deserve worn RBs.
There, I said it

Otherwise use the best stuff on earth, Redline, and change your oil....
If you care enough

Otherwise
Have at it
At the selection in WalMart

And what about all those people who've had the correct OCIs (or gone below) and still had engines blow/seize or changed rod bearings & found them excessively worn or just plain knackered?
Want to see the OCIs? Then read the through the blown engine registry thread links (for better details read the list linked (that I posted) in the op) & the rod bearing condition thread.

And just because an engine revs smoothly to 8300 RPM doesn't mean it doesn't have problems, including design flaws!

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Was POE a typo? Meant to be POA? When I searched POE I got references about oil for AC compressors .

Not a typo, POE is polyolester. The reason you see that come up with oil for compressors is that esters are commonly seen in those special applications.

[Assimilator1]

Hmm, interesting, I still can't find anything out about POEs relating to engine oils

How does Mobil 1 5w/50 compare to RL?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Hmm, interesting, I still can't find anything out about POEs relating to engine oils

How does Mobil 1 5w/50 compare to RL?

Google polyol ester or POE oil.

I asked the same question about M1 5W50 last year. There is a response in this thread. I am running it in my car right now. Horsepower and mpg went up by 50% and rod bearing wear was reversed. The next oil to go in is a mix of 0W40 and 15W50. Depending on how I mix it, I might get 7.5W45. Got it on sale really cheap last year at Jegs, like $3/L.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Google polyol ester or POE oil.

I asked the same question about M1 5W50 last year. There is a response in this thread. I am running it in my car right now. Horsepower and mpg went up by 50% and rod bearing wear was reversed. The next oil to go in is a mix of 0W40 and 15W50. Depending on how I mix it, I might get 7.5W45. Got it on sale really cheap last year at Jegs, like $3/L.

only up by 50%? You are doing it wrong. I mixed some extra virgin olive oil with my M1 5W50 and got 52%

[Richbot]

I saw a screenshot of a facebook messenger conversation with a Noted Engine Builder that Mobil1 can actually put lead back on bearings and that's why you shouldn't change it when you see lead on your blackstone reports when using M1 because that's actually the oil working to fix your bearings, just change the filter to catch the Gunk it is Cleaning Out because it is High Quality Racing Oil Good ENough For Ferrari (tm)

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I saw a screenshot of a facebook messenger conversation with a Noted Engine Builder that Mobil1 can actually put lead back on bearings and that's why you shouldn't change it when you see lead on your blackstone reports when using M1 because that's actually the oil working to fix your bearings, just change the filter to catch the Gunk it is Cleaning Out because it is High Quality Racing Oil Good ENough For Ferrari (tm)

Imagine not just pouring liquid lead into the oil fill hole. Cut out the middle man (ExxonMobil).

[Shredicus]

I feed mine a little spaghetti and marinara too

[StripclubDJ]

As a master tech of 20 years
Since joining this forum I always view these threads looking for deans bimmers Input

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Google polyol ester or POE oil.

I asked the same question about M1 5W50 last year. There is a response in this thread. I am running it in my car right now. Horsepower and mpg went up by 50% and rod bearing wear was reversed. The next oil to go in is a mix of 0W40 and 15W50. Depending on how I mix it, I might get 7.5W45. Got it on sale really cheap last year at Jegs, like $3/L.

Lol

Re Googling POE, same results I got, either talks about AC oil or, bizarrely, a game! I give up, it's sunny outside .....

[pbonsalb]

Try googling Group V synthetic engine oil to weed out the refrigerant oil.

[pbonsalb]

Here is Mobil 1 5W50 at $46 for 6 or $92 for 12. Add one individual liter at $8 for free shipping.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mob-122075

[PYE46M3]

How does that test with a disc spinning against nuts and bolts stimulate an internal combustion engine conditions? This is a legitimate question because I see so many youtubers also do this test and draw conclusions. You're not even generating a similar amount of heat.

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Google polyol ester or POE oil.

I asked the same question about M1 5W50 last year. There is a response in this thread. I am running it in my car right now. Horsepower and mpg went up by 50% and rod bearing wear was reversed. The next oil to go in is a mix of 0W40 and 15W50. Depending on how I mix it, I might get 7.5W45. Got it on sale really cheap last year at Jegs, like $3/L.

Hey I was wondering if you track your car and if you do how offen? When you drive it hard what is your shifting rpm usualy? Only reason I am asking is just wanna know if you feel comfortable passing 8K rpm daily by using 0W40 or 5W40 oil.

[pbonsalb]

I don’t track. I also don’t live in unpopulated canyons or mountains where you can safely race around. So I would not say I drive hard.

My redline is 8600 rpm, but honestly, I have a 6MT so it’s more work to pull off redline shifts every time I drive so I can’t say I do it all the time. If I had a DCT and just had to floor it to do redline shifts, I would do a lot more of them. Most of my shifts are in the 3000-4000 range in daily driving. I do hit redline, usually through 2nd and 3rd gear if I am merging onto the highway and the road is clear. I seem to hit 8600 in 4th only if I am racing someone.

For my use, 0W40 or 5W40 is fine. If I tracked the car or thought I needed thicker oil, I’d probably run 5W50. I just don’t see the need for 10W60 for typical daily use and I think it is a detriment during cold starts, particularly in freezing temperatures. Porsche GT3 uses 0W40 so it probably would be fine. If you want to learn a lot about oil, read bobistheoilguy dot com and 540blog dot com. There are some very knowledgeable people there.