Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I've been to the dragon 3 times. You can't push the car anywhere near as hard there as you can on track, even in the middle of the night when the road is empty.

It's just something that can't be conveyed until you've driven on track.

If you drove as hard on the street as you can on track, you'd crash within a day. No amount of skill could prevent it.

Wasn't trying to compare the two, the point I was trying to make is that there are other ways to drive this car as intended outside of the track.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

It really is disconcerting isn't it? Even with new bearings I'm still loathe to push it hard very often. We go up to the mountains once a month where I beat the shit out of it for a couole days but otherwise it sits in the garage most of the time. It is the best overall car I have ever owned and I truly love driving it, but I wish I'd never bought it. Too many common, expensive issues. My 04 m3 was a nightmare once it hit 75k (which I'm fast approaching) so I'll probably sell it before then unfortunately. I don't think we will buy another. My daughter's x3 has been a nightmare too. Ive lost all confidence in the brand.

I actually have no complaints. It is an expensive car new and expensive cars new are expensive to maintain used something that concerned me when I bought it so I got a CPO that combined with some remaining original warranty gave me 3.5 years of coverage. I never needed that coverage. In the 5 years I have owned my 08 E90 M3, the only failures I have experienced are a fuel sensor that cost $100 and a throttle actuator that cost $225 to rebuild, and a cam position sensor that cost $85, and all that was after the CPO expired.

I have done a bunch of preventative maintenance. Rod bearings, all fluids, plugs, filters. And I have done all the NA bolt on mods as well as some minor suspension and brake mods. I have done it all myself to keep costs down. but even if I had a $2500 bill for a shop to do throttle actuators or rod bearings, I would not complain given the cost and complexity of the car new. And I could not afford the car new, so buying used and accepting the possibility of a few expensive repairs was my only option.

I'll probably keep mine for a few more years. It is almost paid off and reasonably entertaining and still comfortable. I would consider supercharging it if I find myself with an extra $8k. And I drive it as much and as hard as I want -- if I was not comfortable doing that then I would sell the car. I am only interested in owning a car that I can drive the way I want as much as I want. But to be honest, my driving is all street driving and you just can't spend much time at redline on the street.

[Doc Oc]

The $225 actuator rebuild, how did you achieve this? Thought everyone was still waiting on the gear sets to come out, no?

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

The $225 actuator rebuild, how did you achieve this? Thought everyone was still waiting on the gear sets to come out, no?

They are out now at Odometer Gears (USA). $225 for a four gear set (two actuators).

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

They are out now at Odometer Gears (USA). $225 for a four gear set (two actuators).

Excellent, thanks so much!

[JPH704]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

It is, since your post we've got two more blown up. Beyond ridiculous. Bmw should be ashamed. How many more before you pull your head out of the sand?

^ this

I also remember a period logging in and seeing new failures daily. That's ridiculous!

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

It is, since your post we've got two more blown up. Beyond ridiculous. Bmw should be ashamed. How many more before you pull your head out of the sand?

Didn't see this response to one of my old posts, because I was just driving back from a 1K mile journey from my last track day of the year. ODO is at 121K right now. Wanna know know the oem bearings lifespan?

[squartus]

Not tired of posting that same old pic over and over? Of course their are going to be a few that hit 200k or more, does nothing to discredit the tolerance stacking theory nor the fact that more engines continue to pop or pulled with terrible bearings.

May want to pull head out of sand, or not. /shrug.

[aus]

If there was a problem... BMW would do the right thing and fix it right??

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/28/d...n-mini-recall/

Originally Posted by autoblog

According to the government's report, the Cooper Hardtop failed side-impact tests in 2014, although one of these tests was five-miles-per-hour faster than the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard. The agency claims: "In January 2015 BMW verbally committed that it would conduct a service campaign to add padding to the rear side panels of MY 2015 Mini 2 Door Hardtop Cooper models. However, BMW did not initiate the service campaign and failed to inform NHTSA of its failure to do so." A subsequent crash test of an example with this fix showed it to make the vehicle compliant with the rules.

Mini spokesperson Mariella Kapsaskis told Autoblog: "Regarding the NHTSA audit query, BMW Group is evaluating the request and will respond to NHTSA as appropriate."

.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Didn't see this response to one of my old posts, because I was just driving back from a 1K mile journey from my last track day of the year. ODO is at 121K right now. Wanna know know the oem bearings lifespan?

Yes, there are a bunch of cars with 100k or higher and a few around 200k. There are also a growing handful of cars with bearing failure well below the lower end of that mileage range. The odds are still definitely in favor of driving the car without bearing failure, by a long shot.

What should people do about that. Reckless people like you advise others to ignore those who have had bearing failures or those who write about people who have had them. So let's say someone listens to you and then suffers a bearing failure. That sucks for the person who took your advice.

Risk adverse people like me advise people to be concerned. I changed my bearings as preventative maintenance and some showed copper around the parting lines and wear was uneven in the middle though none yet showed copper in that area. In my case I do not think failure was imminent.

So the question is what should people do. They can do nothing or they can be proactive or they can try to go inbetween and do oil monitoring and listen to the motor. This is a decision each owner must make. They make these decisions all the time.

Do you insure your house for a fire you will probably never experience? Do you have life insurance even though ypu have a 99% chance of not dying prematurely?

Do you have $15-$20k to spend without concern if the engine did go? Do you have $2500 to do a preventative maintenance rod bearing change?

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, there are a bunch of cars with 100k or higher and a few around 200k. There are also a growing handful of cars with bearing failure well below the lower end of that mileage range. The odds are still definitely in favor of driving the car without bearing failure, by a long shot.

What should people do about that. Reckless people like you advise others to ignore those who have had bearing failures or those who write about people who have had them. So let's say someone listens to you and then suffers a bearing failure. That sucks for the person who took your advice.

Risk adverse people like me advise people to be concerned. I changed my bearings as preventative maintenance and some showed copper around the parting lines and wear was uneven in the middle though none yet showed copper in that area. In my case I do not think failure was imminent.

So the question is what should people do. They can do nothing or they can be proactive or they can try to go inbetween and do oil monitoring and listen to the motor. This is a decision each owner must make. They make these decisions all the time.

Do you insure your house for a fire you will probably never experience? Do you have life insurance even though ypu have a 99% chance of not dying prematurely?

Do you have $15-$20k to spend without concern if the engine did go? Do you have $2500 to do a preventative maintenance rod bearing change?

All good points.....which is why I maintain that killerfish is secretly a paid bmw shill. What other purpose is there to troll every bearing and blown engine thread? It's as if he is trying to convince people to still buy/trust BMW. Something is fishy with the killerfish

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Didn't see this response to one of my old posts, because I was just driving back from a 1K mile journey from my last track day of the year. ODO is at 121K right now. Wanna know know the oem bearings lifespan?

I held a DE at the end of August and we lost 2 out of 12 S65s due to rod bearing failures. One was a 2008 and the other was a 2011 and both had less than 60,000 miles. You have to be crazy to believe this is an acceptable failure rate.

[Doc Oc]

That really sucks for those guys. I bet it makes them feel much better to come here to vent only to find people calling the issue ridiculous while also posting high odo pix.

Has anyone heard of any failures from cars with replaced bearings?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, there are a bunch of cars with 100k or higher and a few around 200k. There are also a growing handful of cars with bearing failure well below the lower end of that mileage range. The odds are still definitely in favor of driving the car without bearing failure, by a long shot.

Same odds as being a member of the population that is mega rich: 1%. Cudos to BMW for making a 200K+ mile, high revving, small displacement V8 with very tight tolerances. Chevy in contrast, has a MUCH, much higher failure rate, on their new C7/C7 Z06 engines with tight tolerances.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

What should people do about that. Reckless people like you advise others to ignore those who have had bearing failures or those who write about people who have had them. So let's say someone listens to you and then suffers a bearing failure. That sucks for the person who took your advice.

Not sleep at night, of course I just came back from the race track in Pennsylvania, with 3 other E9X M3s in attendance. Besides, the fact that none of us blew our motors on track, we talked for hours, and the topic of bearings never came up. But then again, none of them except me was on the boards, so that's no surprise.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Risk adverse people like me advise people to be concerned. I changed my bearings as preventative maintenance and some showed copper around the parting lines and wear was uneven in the middle though none yet showed copper in that area. In my case I do not think failure was imminent

You wasted your money plain and simple. Now you're saying that failure was not imminent and are trying to down play your pre-bearing change engine failure risk somewhat, because of the evidence of 200K+ mile motors out there. Just imagine what their bearings must look like. And that's the point: It doesn't matter, because for the last time the cosmetic appearance of used oem bearings, or any other oem part, has nothing to do with the probability of failure.

Now what is my stance on in-frame rod bearing changes? IMHO, if you have a low mileage motor (<50K miles) and want to do it for "peace of mind" because of stuff you read online, then by all means feel free. Just be aware of some basic concepts like:

-The life span of properly installed oem rod bearings is 200K+ miles. No aftermarket rods bearings or bolts have ever reached that milestone, and it will take the next ten years for us to see them. So take superiority claims with a grain of salt.

-In-frame rod bearing changes are not the way the aftermarket rod bearing kits were meant to be installed. They were intended for full engine rebuilds were the rods are to be honed, per their instructions.

-Failed motor tear downs have revealed various assembly issues, of which rod bearing miss-assembly are only a few. These include; failed main bearings, and even miss torqued engine block bolts, to name a few.

If you have a high mileage motor (>70K miles) and came to the forums, and now want to change your rod bearings because of what you read online: Don't be a fool!

[aus]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

I held a DE at the end of August and we lost 2 out of 12 S65s due to rod bearing failures. One was a 2008 and the other was a 2011 and both had less than 60,000 miles. You have to be crazy to believe this is an acceptable failure rate.

Do you know if those two failures are on the blow motor registry?
.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Same odds as being a member of the population that is mega rich: 1%. Cudos to BMW for making a 200K+ mile, high revving, small displacement V8 with very tight tolerances. Chevy in contrast, has a MUCH, much higher failure rate, on their new C7/C7 Z06 engines with tight tolerances.



Not sleep at night, of course I just came back from the race track in Pennsylvania, with 3 other E9X M3s in attendance. Besides, the fact that none of us blew our motors on track, we talked for hours, and the topic of bearings never came up. But then again, none of them except me was on the boards, so that's no surprise.



You wasted your money plain and simple. Now you're saying that failure was not imminent and are trying to down play your pre-bearing change engine failure risk somewhat, because of the evidence of 200K+ mile motors out there. Just imagine what their bearings must look like. And that's the point: It doesn't matter, because for the last time the cosmetic appearance of used oem bearings, or any other oem part, has nothing to do with the probability of failure.

Now what is my stance on in-frame rod bearing changes? IMHO, if you have a low mileage motor (<50K miles) and want to do it for "peace of mind" because of stuff you read online, then by all means feel free. Just be aware of some basic concepts like:

-The life span of properly installed oem rod bearings is 200K+ miles. No aftermarket rods bearings or bolts have ever reached that milestone, and it will take the next ten years for us to see them. So take superiority claims with a grain of salt.

-In-frame rod bearing changes are not the way the aftermarket rod bearing kits were meant to be installed. They were intended for full engine rebuilds were the rods are to be honed, per their instructions.

-Failed motor tear downs have revealed various assembly issues, of which rod bearing miss-assembly are only a few. These include; failed main bearings, and even miss torqued engine block bolts, to name a few.

If you have a high mileage motor (>70K miles) and came to the forums, and now want to change your rod bearings because of what you read online: Don't be a fool!

You can't just make numbers up. You, nor I, have any idea what the failure rate is. You've been saying 1% for a couple years and the failures keep coming. As far as I know they stopped making our car in 2013.... how are we still at 1%? You think there have been only 570 blown s65's around the world?

[squartus]

Making stuff up is his one and only talent, try not to spoil it for him. That would be as cruel as posting pictures of high mileage cars in threads where peoples engines have failed and calling them and the people worried idiots.....

I mean who would be unhappy with their own lives so much that they would need to do such a thing? Glad we don't have anyone like that on here..

[T!m3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Yes, there are a bunch of cars with 100k or higher and a few around 200k. There are also a growing handful of cars with bearing failure well below the lower end of that mileage range. The odds are still definitely in favor of driving the car without bearing failure, by a long shot.

What should people do about that. Reckless people like you advise others to ignore those who have had bearing failures or those who write about people who have had them. So let's say someone listens to you and then suffers a bearing failure. That sucks for the person who took your advice.

Risk adverse people like me advise people to be concerned. I changed my bearings as preventative maintenance and some showed copper around the parting lines and wear was uneven in the middle though none yet showed copper in that area. In my case I do not think failure was imminent.

So the question is what should people do. They can do nothing or they can be proactive or they can try to go inbetween and do oil monitoring and listen to the motor. This is a decision each owner must make. They make these decisions all the time.

Do you insure your house for a fire you will probably never experience? Do you have life insurance even though ypu have a 99% chance of not dying prematurely?

Do you have $15-$20k to spend without concern if the engine did go? Do you have $2500 to do a preventative maintenance rod bearing change?

Agree!

[byroncheung]

Hi I need some advice here.

I have a 2011 e90 m3, from what I read BMW switched to the non-lead bearings at 2011, so would my car have the lead or non-lead rod bearings?

And if it has the non-lead bearing, will oil analysis be still be useful in monitoring the bearings? Would a non-lead bearing gives trace of other metals we can look for in the report?

[Doc Oc]

Get a uoa, it'll tell you which bearings you have. If it says zero lead then you have the aluminum/tin bearings. From what I've read there have been a few 11's still with lead.

[byroncheung]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Get a uoa, it'll tell you which bearings you have. If it says zero lead then you have the aluminum/tin bearings. From what I've read there have been a few 11's still with lead.

Doc Oc thanks for your reply. Yes I'm going to do one UOA anyway just to see what is it up to. I pray I have the lead ones.

But even if it's the aluminum/tin, can't I monitor it from the aluminum and tin content in the oil? I see they list those metal in the report?

[Properstyle]

You know I keep seeing these threads yet for some reason the failure seem to always have the common trait of people doing those stupid BMW oil change intervals. I'm not sure what part of someones minds says it makes sense to drive 14k the same oil in a high reving high heat tight tolerance motor. The rate of rod bearing failures is much smaller than people make it. When it was a Issue on the e46 it got fixed and recall was issued plane and simple, there were more failure in the first year then all of the years of e90 production. The numbers even in this thread aren't even over 200 yet you think bmw is going to do a recall on the 60k units sold? lets use some common sense. As of late the car thats seem to be spining bearings are 2011s with 38-50k And all of the owners keep saying the same thing. I just followed bmw oil change intervals. I don't doubt there are a few that the clearances were improperly set but damn people stop over analyzing the bs. You all make owning the car more of a scare then the thrill of driving it. If you are about to super charge the car it maybe a good idea to go a head and change them as they car will be put under forced in duction which is not great for tight tolerance motors but stock cars those with bolt ons? enjoy the damn car. I bought my car with 49k january, I now have 70k. when I first got the car I spent most of my time in the 5k above range.