Enhanced Premium Sound upgrade

[Gemcoska]

Very cool OEM upgrage solution.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by HIS4

You do not have to use it's master volume unless you're using one of the digital inputs. Recent news on the BitOne is the Audison has released a recall on the units. According to another forum I frequent, a lot of the show cars at CES (who were members of the forum) were using it and they had terrible noise issues. The issue is currently being looked at by Audison.

So you might want to wait it out a little just to see where this goes before jumping into that. I also wanted to get a BitOne but I'm waiting to see how this all plays out first. Could be just one of those early release bugs but you never know.

The last that I know from an Europena owner is that the latest firmware update fixed all those problems. The recall was done to actually load the new fixes.

No hurry from my part, as I want to really know how the OEM volume is actually handled by it.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

The last that I know from an Europena owner is that the latest firmware update fixed all those problems. The recall was done to actually load the new fixes.

No hurry from my part, as I want to really know how the OEM volume is actually handled by it.

Check out page 14 of the manual.

"If the OEM source has its own EQ, it can change according to the volume level set by the user. It is important, particularly if you use the Software function "OEM De-EQ" (cut off the source EQ) do not move the volume of the source, in order to not change the timbre of the system."

So maybe in your case, you could just set all the OEM EQ to flat (which you are probably doing now with your DQXS) and set the speed based volume control to min. Then the OEM volume control should have very little effect, if any, on the response of the system and you can use that as the master volume instead of the DRC controller for the BitOne.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by HIS4

Check out page 14 of the manual.

"If the OEM source has its own EQ, it can change according to the volume level set by the user. It is important, particularly if you use the Software function "OEM De-EQ" (cut off the source EQ) do not move the volume of the source, in order to not change the timbre of the system."

So maybe in your case, you could just set all the OEM EQ to flat (which you are probably doing now with your DQXS) and set the speed based volume control to min. Then the OEM volume control should have very little effect, if any, on the response of the system and you can use that as the master volume instead of the DRC controller for the BitOne.

The "OEM De-EQ" is what the Cleansweep does, it removes the DIRAC DSP EQ curve in the OEM amp and automatically set the response to flat. The OEM EQ in the iDrive is an overlay of that processing; that's the reason PencilGeek iDrive EQ settings are such to create a flat response as setting the iDrive EQ bands to 0dB does not give you a flat response. Without performing the "OEM De-EQ" what basically will be done by this BitOne is a fancier DSP EQ/time alignment overlay on top of the DIRAC...

Therefore it seems that the BitOne also requires a set volume level all the time to not lose the calibration (the "OEM De-EQ"), the same way the Alpine PX-H650 and -to a lesser extent- the Cleansweep requires the OEM volume to be set at a certain level and instead use its Master Volume for system volume changes.

The problem is, there is no way of setting the OEM volume all the time to the exact same level in our cars, as it resets to a low level every time the car is turned off and some 10 minutes are passed. And worse, there is no OEM volume level indicator anywhere for at least go back to that particular OEM volume level. So setting the OEM volume to the same level all the time for the processing to be effective is virtually impossible in our cars... unless a calibration set up have to be performed every time the car is started. Yeah, right...

I hope that there is some "intentional" tradeoff in the BitOne as it is in the Cleansweep, so that way the Master Volume can be set to some 75% level and allow the use of the OEM volume without losing the calibration. Some hiss at low volume and slight changes in the calibration at high volumes (the damn non-defeatable speed-dependent EQ in our cars) can be expected with this mode but so far with my Cleansweep none of those trade off are deal breakers at all.

[jml]

Originally Posted by Technic

The "OEM De-EQ" is what the Cleansweep does, it removes the DIRAC DSP EQ curve in the OEM amp and automatically set the response to flat. The OEM EQ in the iDrive is an overlay of that processing; that's the reason PencilGeek iDrive EQ settings are such to create a flat response as setting the iDrive EQ bands to 0dB does not give you a flat response. Without performing the "OEM De-EQ" what basically will be done by this BitOne is a fancier DSP EQ/time alignment overlay on top of the DIRAC...

Therefore it seems that the BitOne also requires a set volume level all the time to not lose the calibration (the "OEM De-EQ"), the same way the Alpine PX-H650 and -to a lesser extent- the Cleansweep requires the OEM volume to be set at a certain level and instead use its Master Volume for system volume changes.

The problem is, there is no way of setting the OEM volume all the time to the exact same level in our cars, as it resets to a low level every time the car is turned off and some 10 minutes are passed. And worse, there is no OEM volume level indicator anywhere for at least go back to that particular OEM volume level. So setting the OEM volume to the same level all the time for the processing to be effective is virtually impossible in our cars... unless a calibration set up have to be performed every time the car is started. Yeah, right...

I hope that there is some "intentional" tradeoff in the BitOne as it is in the Cleansweep, so that way the Master Volume can be set to some 75% level and allow the use of the OEM volume without losing the calibration. Some hiss at low volume and slight changes in the calibration at high volumes (the damn non-defeatable speed-dependent EQ in our cars) can be expected with this mode but so far with my Cleansweep none of those trade off are deal breakers at all.

I find it hard to believe that cleansweep is able to reverse the phase shift per channel/frequency if Dirac is anything like Audyssey. That seems hard. Even in the simple case where were talking old school time alignment per channel before a crossover, I usually do eq tuning after a time alignment. That is some pretty sweet technology if they can unravel that mess back to a raw source signal.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by jml

I find it hard to believe that cleansweep is able to reverse the phase shift per channel/frequency if Dirac is anything like Audyssey. That seems hard. Even in the simple case where were talking old school time alignment per channel before a crossover, I usually do eq tuning after a time alignment. That is some pretty sweet technology if they can unravel that mess back to a raw source signal.

Actually the BitOne's processing is based on Audyssey and a future release of the BitOne is supposed to have Audyssey Auto-EQ features. The Cleansweep was one of the first to use this but I'm not sure if it's baased on Audyssey or not. It does work though. The RF 3sixty.1 and 3sixty.2 also have variations of this technology. Alpine has something too. Audiocontrol has some stuff that does summing but I don't think it's at the same level as the others mentioned.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by jml

I find it hard to believe that cleansweep is able to reverse the phase shift per channel/frequency if Dirac is anything like Audyssey. That seems hard. Even in the simple case where were talking old school time alignment per channel before a crossover, I usually do eq tuning after a time alignment. That is some pretty sweet technology if they can unravel that mess back to a raw source signal.

The only thing that I know is that the Cleansweep works in removing whatever that DIRAC is doing, as I can hear the voices, highs and some music passages much clearer than before and bass is deep instead of a dry "thump, thump".

I was impressed the first time that I listened to it without too much adjustment from the DQXS.

[Technic]

I got an answer from the Audioson people about the OEM volume settings (you were correct, HIS4):

In short the answer is YES. The bit one DRC controller does NOT have to be used for overall volume control. Different vehicles run different EQ curves at low and high volume levels. This is done to not only improve the acoustics of the system at various volume levels, but also protect the speakers in the system. The bit one is more sophisticated than the components you currently have in your system, and when properly set up and tuned, can do more, and can make your current audio system sound better. The bit one incorporates a feature called dynamic equalization which helps overcome some of the differences between low and high volume eq curves. So if you’re currently not using the volume control knob that comes with the JL Cleansweep, and there are no major differences in treble, mid, and bass, levels at high volume versus low volume, then the bit one will perform perfectly. IF there currently ARE differences between treble, mid, and bass at low versus high volume, then the bit one’s dynamic eq will help minimize them. Hope this helps….the bit one is shipping now, so visit your local Audison dealer and they might have one already in stock.

Now is a matter to wait 6 months until the initial issues clouds clear on this processor and the prices start going down to earth...

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

Now is a matter to wait 6 months until the initial issues clouds clear on this processor and the prices start going down to earth...

Cool. Group buy?

[Kev]

Originally Posted by HIS4

Cool. Group buy?

GB? Count me in. It would be a much cleaner install instead of having the JL CS and the AC DQ7

[Technic]

Originally Posted by HIS4

Cool. Group buy?

Let's see...

The only part that I think that this processor is lacking is actually the max low level output levels: 4V RMS. Although it will match perfectly with the PDX max inputs, the Cleansweep outputs a max of 8V RMS (non adjustable) and the DQXS a max of 7.5V RMS (fully adjustable).

Perhaps the overall difference is academic as the signal to noise ratio are in the 100dB+ range on all of them, but I like to have enough "headroom" in the signal level to manually take care of any noises/hiss that might show up after tuning.

[Gemcoska]

I'm definitely in for a group buy...

I'm looking at the elites here for the lead.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

I'm definitely in for a group buy...

I'm looking at the elites here for the lead.

Uh oh. Look what I started! It was meant as a joke. Realistically, a group buy for that item wouldn't happen any time soon because demand is very high, supply is very low, and early production bugs are still being worked out. But we can all dream I guess.

[Gemcoska]

Ha... yes, you did start wheels turning. But yeah, might as well wait for some new technology if its getting its bugs worked out.

[Neil McRae]

Technic,
So what are the downsides to your install?

I want to do an install that once done I can forget about it, bang MP3s on the hard drive and crank up the volume through the steering wheel controls - is that possible with you setup?

Thanks,
Neil.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

Technic,
So what are the downsides to your install?

I want to do an install that once done I can forget about it, bang MP3s on the hard drive and crank up the volume through the steering wheel controls - is that possible with you setup?

Thanks,
Neil.

Yes, that's what I did with the Premium Audio (Individual Audio in Europe.

The only downside of my setup is that it is not cheap.

[Neil McRae]

ok cool- Thanks for the info.

I've seen a lot of BMW installs over the years where there is always some "issue" that prevents it from looking like it was done right. Like can't turn bass to high or hiss or other shit like that.

One question given the choice, if you were ordering the car from new, what audio system would you start with? I'm going to indy but is it easier to go with Logic7 ? (you can spec this on the M3 in UK).

Neil.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

ok cool- Thanks for the info.

I've seen a lot of BMW installs over the years where there is always some "issue" that prevents it from looking like it was done right. Like can't turn bass to high or hiss or other shit like that.

One question given the choice, if you were ordering the car from new, what audio system would you start with? I'm going to indy but is it easier to go with Logic7 ? (you can spec this on the M3 in UK).

Neil.

Out of the current 4 OEM systems in your country, I would go with the HiFi system as the best to work with aftermarket equipment. With the right aftermarket equipment and tuning it can produce a sound several times more personally satisfying than any of the OEM systems for less money and still looking OEM. If you do not want to mess with aftermarket, then the Logic7 will be fine.

I just don't see/hear the value or the performance advantage of the Individual Audio over the Logic7. BMW failed in making the Individual Audio a real leap over the Logic7 or even the HiFi system for the amount of money that they ask for, IMO. I just don't...

[jamesisel]

Awesome! Subscribed!

[Neil McRae]

thanks. I've head L7, hopefully will hear the indy audio soon. I'll go for one of them as if I ever sell this car on I think better to have one of them speced.

[footie]

I know they are different cars but I have the L7 in the M3 and have heard the Indiviual setup in the X6. I prefer the L7 and really doubt the other is worth what is approaching double the money.

Also after constant tweaking the setup I have ended up with the Fadar 3 clicks forward and in Concert mode. If anyone is interested I will post the Bass/Treble and Equalizer settings as well.

[Neil McRae]

yes please dood.

Cheers,
Neil.