What does the next generation M3 need to do to be successful in your eyes?

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by adc

Guys, your next M3 will have a tri-turbo engine configuration and electric steering (only one available in the next F whatever platform). Plus of course, HUD, all around cameras, DCT-II, active diff, a CF soda straw to reduce weight and a hemp carpet option in a nod to more environmentally aware buyers.

So I'll probably have an M2. Meaning, the M version of the next 1 series Coupe which will apparently be named the 2 series. And which will mercifully come with only a twin-turbo, which will be considered the "simple" and "reliable" option for the BMW engine line-up in that timeframe.
Or perhaps I'll bite the bullet and finally switch to a Porsche.

If you think I'm joking, just wait a couple of years.

Funny but probably true. High revving engine is now 7k rpm and light car is 3500lbs.. So reliable may as well mean 1 HPFP issue / year.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by erhanh

That's what I am thinking to do actually. Most likely Exige/S. M3 lost its trackable DD status. It is way to expensive, and even more so expensive to modify for track. Even then, still too heavy.

Elise/Exige will not be sold new in the US for the next couple years due to nonconformance with regs. Prices for used may be going up.

Edit
Apparently they are addressing the situation by changing engines. May not come to the US, though.:

"With Lotus recently announcing its Elise and Exige ‘Final Edition’ models for the U.S., the automaker from Hethel will soon have only the Evora in its lineup.

That situation won’t last for long, however, as Lotus is working on a completely revamped Exige for 2012, and possibly the Elise too.

The biggest change will be the installation of the Evora’s 3.5-liter V-6 in the Exige. We’ve already seen spy shots of Exige prototypes packing the Toyota-sourced V-6 engine and according to Autocar they should be launched next year.

The new Exige will get an extended wheelbase and possibly a wider track to accommodate the V-6 engine, and peak output should match the Evora’s 276 horsepower and 252 pound-feet of torque. Additionally, the new engine will also enable Lotus to offer an automatic gearbox on the Exige for the first time.

Revised styling is also on the menu, with a much more aggressive look planned to prepare customers for the new look Lotus will be going with its future lineup.

Whether Lotus chooses to bring the V-6 Exige to the U.S. or simply waits until the arrival of the Esprit supercar in 2013 remains to be seen. The Esprit will be the first of a five-strong sports car lineup that will include a redesigned Elise, Elan sports car, Elite grand tourer, Eterne four-door coupe, and the aforementioned Esprit supercar."

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Elise/Exige will not be sold new in the US for the next couple years due to nonconformance with regs. Prices for used may be going up.

Thanks for the heads-up. Hope that doesn't happen. I'm thinking of buying next year but then I might pull in the date.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by G-Lo408

Lol

Right back at you brother

Lulz New Mustangs can post same laptimes as the M3 on the track, so im pretty sure they dont just do well in straight line

[checkmate]

This forum is interesting-it seems like everyone has a short attention span..anybody remember the E46 M3 and how considering its 'lightness' they left the rear subframe without strong structural reinforcements that led to the subframe fiasco?

As iconic as the E30 M3 was-I'll bet good money that most of the folks in this forum wouldn't want to live with that car day in day out. It was an icon-but nevertheless was joke in terms of its ride and reliability. As someone pretty active with BMWCCA-I've met way too many E30 M3 owners with horror stories.

As M3's have evolved/progressed-they've become increasingly reliable at the cost of weight and complexity. However-they've become better Jekyll and Hyde cars as a result.

The M3 is and will always be an all rounder.

[adc]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Elise/Exige will not be sold new in the US for the next couple years due to nonconformance with regs. Prices for used may be going up

I just happened to check Caterham's US site. Yummy.

Buy something quick & fun for DD (GTI, MCS, FT-86 or similar) and a Caterham CSR for track and weekends.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by adc

I just happened to check Caterham's US site. Yummy.

Buy something quick & fun for DD (GTI, MCS, FT-86 or similar) and a Caterham CSR for track and weekends.

That is the idea. I already bought an MCS. Caterham is kinda too hard core for my taste. That's why I was considering Exige/S. At least I can use as DD when the mood takes.

[Rshane]

Originally Posted by erhanh

You see, that's the problem.. better in which way, according to who?

According too me, which is all that matters when I buy a car for me. Also, it will perform better than the current one...which performs better than the last one..etc.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by S.hasan546

Yes 4000 lbs. is sooooo lightweight . Who said it wasn't lighter than anything in it's class? We're just comparing it to the true sports cars (e30/e36/e46/s2000;etc) we all grew up loving. All you e9x owners talk about M heritage and NA motors but than fail to acknowledge that the e9x M went against it's heritage with the immense weight gain it went through. AND it doesn't help that it also handles and feels very soft. If you can't tell the difference between a carrera and a m3 you have a problem. I felt a big difference between the 1M and M3 in just terms of weight & "flickable-ness"

The current m3 is a luxury sports car to me. I give it credit for what it is. A GT cruiser. I do not give it credit like the e30/e36/e46, which created the cult like following of BMW M division.

Aren't you special?

Originally Posted by benmoooon

Enthusiasts are the minority of people who buy cars. People will still buy the M3 because its an M3, simple as that. People have been complaining about every generation M3 released after the E30, but it's still successful.

E30 fanboys hated that the E36 was moving from i4 to i6, E36 fanboys hated that E46 was less raw, E46 fanboys hated the E9X M3's because they were moving from an i6 to v8.

Now E9x fanboys are hating that F30 M3's will be forced induction.Trend continues through every generation of the M3 where previous owners throw a b!tchfit and try to argue why their model is superior, but new technology is always coming out and will be better. It's called evolution and that's how BMW stays on top and is still the benchmark for the entry level Luxury Sports Car.

Originally Posted by Rshane

I would like to see something a bit lighter, with more power at roughly the same price we have now. I like the S65 I have now, but if a nice 6 cylinder with some turbos can put down the power I want I am fine with that. I just want something that is fun, looks good, and is comfortable. I'm not to concerned with gas mileage, or I would buy a Honda.




You hit the nail on the head with your post. It seems so many folks on this site think less of others here because they don't have the exact same options they do. If you drive a DCT, you suck because I have a 6M...If you got a sunroof you suck because I got a CF roof, if you got the ZCP package you suck because I didn't...etc.

It gets even worse when something new and improved comes along...and face it, the next M3 will be new and IMPROVED. But, I'm sure "purists" (whatever the hell that even means) will balk and say something from the past was much more "raw" (whatever the hell that means), even though the new M3 will post better times in every performance category and likely break into the 7's at the Ring (which seems to be the only measurement of how good a car is).

For me, I will buy the next one because it will be better than the last one. I will not take it to the track, and will use it as a daily driver...mod it a bit to my liking, and just enjoy it, and if that offends some folks here, screw it, I don't buy the car for you, I buy it for me, and until you start making my car payment you can keep your opinions to yourself.

^^

[Sy546]

Originally Posted by OC3

Aren't you special?
:

I am thanks

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Rshane

According too me, which is all that matters when I buy a car for me. Also, it will perform better than the current one...which performs better than the last one..etc.

Exactly. So it won't be a better car, from my perspective. In terms of performance, unless you track it (and you're good at it) it is irrevalant how fast the car is. I couldn't even red line my M3 in public streets. Maybe 0.1% of time I could... So who cares if it can do 0-60mph in 3.9secs?

[Nine]

Originally Posted by S.hasan546

Yes 4000 lbs. is sooooo lightweight . Who said it wasn't lighter than anything in it's class? We're just comparing it to the true sports cars (e30/e36/e46/s2000;etc) we all grew up loving. All you e9x owners talk about M heritage and NA motors but than fail to acknowledge that the e9x M went against it's heritage with the immense weight gain it went through. AND it doesn't help that it also handles and feels very soft. If you can't tell the difference between a carrera and a m3 you have a problem. I felt a big difference between the 1M and M3 in just terms of weight & "flickable-ness"

The current m3 is a luxury sports car to me. I give it credit for what it is. A GT cruiser. I do not give it credit like the e30/e36/e46, which created the cult like following of BMW M division.

Have you ever driven an M3? You know the M3 weights in at about 3,500lbs give or take a few options. Do you know how much an e46m3 weighs?

Also, what you have done here is exposed your noobness. Did you just put the s2000 in the same group as a bunch of coupes, ummm really? last I checked the s2000 only comes in a convertible, Put a Z3, M coupe convertible, but Never an M3 in the same class.

As a former s2000 owner and a current M3 owner, I can tell you that the M3 is just as "flickable", actually I think you bs'ing everyone if you don't think you can easily toss around an M3 vs. an underpowered s2000.


In most cases, the naive posts in the M3post forum either people who don't own an M3 or somebody who has no clue what they are talking about.

The M3 is a SOLID car, it's built different then the older cars, more reinforcements, it's certainly not going to feel like a car made in the 80s, but don't discount that feeling, thinking that it is not as 'raw'.

Just some food for thought, a ferrari 458 italia weighs in at 3450, no backseat, no real trunk, lot's more $ to spend on lightening the car up. I'm not sure you can really call the M3 heavy, especially considering it has a v8.

[G-Lo408]

Originally Posted by benmoooon

Lulz New Mustangs can post same laptimes as the M3 on the track, so im pretty sure they dont just do well in straight line

10-4 captain, just saw the video on youtube, good to see Ford is catching up with actually driving the car and not just straight line pooowa!!!!

[Sy546]

Originally Posted by Nine

Have you ever driven an M3? You know the M3 weights in at about 3,500lbs give or take a few options. Do you know how much an e46m3 weighs?

e92 m3 weighs in at 3704 lbs. I don't see where your getting 3500 lbs. e46 m3 is roughly 3400 lbs.

Originally Posted by Nine

Also, what you have done here is exposed your noobness. Did you just put the s2000 in the same group as a bunch of coupes, ummm really? last I checked the s2000 only comes in a convertible, Put a Z3, M coupe convertible, but Never an M3 in the same class.

My noobness? wow i didn't know we were all 15 years old still. The s2000 out handles most coupes and weighs in under 2850 lbs. Also i never said they were in the same class. I was comparing the e9x to sports cars that i believe are true enthusiasts/sports cars.

Originally Posted by Nine

As a former s2000 owner and a current M3 owner, I can tell you that the M3 is just as "flickable", actually I think you bs'ing everyone if you don't think you can easily toss around an M3 vs. an underpowered s2000.

I don't think so, so lets just agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Nine

In most cases, the naive posts in the M3post forum either people who don't own an M3 or somebody who has no clue what they are talking about.

Nope i don't own an m3, ive driven most of my friends cars for a substantial amount of time, enough to review the car. Ive taken a friend's e9x on a track day too.

Originally Posted by Nine

The M3 is a SOLID car, it's built different then the older cars, more reinforcements, it's certainly not going to feel like a car made in the 80s, but don't discount that feeling, thinking that it is not as 'raw'.

I never said it wasn't a SOLID car. I just said its more of a luxury gt cruiser for me. It is not raw. It's a great car. Just for a different demographic.

[Kayani_1]

I would first of all like a good looking car like the current M3 coupe. So please do not make it ugly.

After that the list goes like this.


1. Extensive Carbon Fiber use e.g....CF hood, CF trunk, CF roof.
2. Drop at least 100-200 Ibs of current V8 cars weight.
3. The next Turbo enigne needs to be real fuel efficient for daily driving.
4. 450hp-475hp and 400 Ib-ft of torque.
5. 7200-7500 rpm redline minimum.
6. Please make the next M3 sound amazing. So work on the noise.
7. The car needs to have the steering feel like that of the current M3.
8. 50/50 chassis balance and even better handling then current M3.
9. The 6-spd mauual and 7-spd DCT should be standard choices to pick from.
7. Most Important..... please do not go over $60K base price or else

[adc]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

1. Extensive Carbon Fiber use e.g....CF hood, CF trunk, CF roof.
2. Drop at least 100-200 Ibs of current V8 cars weight.
7. Most Important..... please do not go over $60K base price or else

Really??

7. The car needs to have the steering feel like that of the current M3.

God, I hope not. It's the Achilles's heel of the current car.

Let's instead wish for the steering feel of the 330i ZHP, the last great steering car BMW made.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by G-Lo408

10-4 captain, just saw the video on youtube, good to see Ford is catching up with actually driving the car and not just straight line pooowa!!!!

[Prince_of_Persia]

I really cant go from a v8 with 8300 rpm to i6 7000ish rpm. I tried many times to convince myself but it just doesnt work !!! Damn i love s65

[G-Lo408]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

I really cant go from a v8 with 8300 rpm to i6 7000ish rpm. I tried many times to convince myself but it just doesnt work !!! Damn i love s65

[m3keash]

Originally Posted by KGB7

Then you should ask the person who doesnt want a back up camera.

I don't have a backup camera on mine, just sensors.

[Kayani_1]

Well the steering feel of the 2008 M3 was the one most people had an issue with. In the 2011 comp. pkg reviews everyone has praised the improved steering feel that according to them has vastly improved over 2008 or early versions.

Originally Posted by adc

Really??

God, I hope not. It's the Achilles's heel of the current car.

Let's instead wish for the steering feel of the 330i ZHP, the last great steering car BMW made.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

Well the steering feel of the 2008 M3 was the one most people had an issue with. In the 2011 comp. pkg reviews everyone has praised the improved steering feel that according to them has vastly improved over 2008 or early versions.

My guess is they simply reduced the power assistance at low speed in the servotronic. That's what throws most people off, but it's not necessarily what I'm complaining about.

If you have a chance, I urge you to test a 330i ZHP.